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THCixx420

Hydroponic Cacti and Succulents

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also FYI

the pot is sitting on 1 layer of grit. Inside the pot the first cm or so is also grit then the rest is my seeding mix (compost, cow poo, chook poo, slow release fert, water crystals, builders sand, grit and about half perlite.

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Very interesting topic

I have split grafts by only ferting once, so I am quite convinced an hydro setup is not really needed. Some times cacti will split by overwatering alone { had this happen to a coupld Trichocereus pasacana]

Hydro cacti is and interesting idea, but not really useful or practical.

Exceptions would be people in very cold climates with short growing period.

Pereskiopsis sounds like the stock to work with.

Other than that, I am happy to see people wanna do this out of curiocity and enthusiasm.

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Hydro cacti is and interesting idea, but not really useful or practical.

Exceptions would be people in very cold climates with short growing period.

 

I find hydro cactus and other succulents very practical. We mass produce succulents for local Sunday and farmers markets for the kids to sell.

Its not about the water - they get very little. Its about the other goodness being delivered straight to the root consistently. Plants adapt and they go very well in a "Hydro" type sytem. Mostly natural light is used and water delivered is based on their natural rainfall. We would have close to 10,000 plants here and on the farm - most born and raised in hydro before moving into hothouses or outdoors.

If you dont use the same theories behind growing leafy plants who like moisture and humidity which are traditionally grown in hydro and you apply what you know about cactus, "hydro" works very well.

I'm no cuctus or succulent expert - I know very little. I'm just a bloke who grows cows and crops on a farm who also enjoys the time spent with his family looking after their plant collection and selling the babies.

Edited by THCixx420

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THC Have you tried Canna Terra and a basic run to waist drip system or even just a normal cacti medium and a drip system? Hook it up to a 100 litre tank with a bubbler and set your feed every other day on a timer and your laughing. Also check out some of Slices threads here he uses a drip system to grow Trichos works a treat and has excellent results. Just another angle that may work for you.

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THC Have you tried Canna Terra and a basic run to waist drip system or even just a normal cacti medium and a drip system? Hook it up to a 100 litre tank with a bubbler and set your feed every other day on a timer and your laughing. Also check out some of Slices threads here he uses a drip system to grow Trichos works a treat and has excellent results. Just another angle that may work for you.

 

Thanks mate. Angles are good. I havent tried Canna Terra. I might look into it when I'm near finishing this run and give it a go. I've tried and still use a run to waste drip system for my succulent and vegie patches. I have a dozen of those transportable 1000 litre tanks I use to store water and water everything from. I use the waste water from the big sytem to add to the 1000 litre tanks. . Drip feeding them all would have been a bit time consuming and expensive to set up because there are a few thousand 100mm pots in 100mm rain guttering inside the container. Thanks for the reply.

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I see

I like people trying different things. The topic is very interesting. I am still not in 'hydro' mentality. I consider it more expensive, more complicated and basically ugly. So you are saying all kinds of cacti love it, or just cacti grafted on trichos?

What about succulents, with what genuses/ species have you tried it, and with what results? [indeed some succulents can root in water]

But I am willing to be convinced about how awesome fast hydro makes them grow. I would love to see a growlog with dates, to see whether they indeed go faster / are happier than being in soil.

Till then I will assume that specific stocks are far more suitable for this than others...

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All the mesembs would do well in certain hydro systems Mutant. I recon echeverias and things like that would do ok as long as the right medium was used and they had the opportunity to dry. A flood and drain system on a once a day only flood cycle would work for almost all cacti, assuming the medium was right and the heat was there.

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What about succulents, with what genuses/ species have you tried it, and with what results? [indeed some succulents can root in water]

 

I have grown out an aloe seedling in hydroton & pea gravel. Watered by dunking in a bucket of nutrient water every day over the summer. Don't water it at all during the winter. Haven't compared to soil grown, however.

I would love to see a growlog with dates, to see whether they indeed go faster / are happier than being in soil.

 

Interesting idea, Mutant. I would love to do a side by side with the peres. or selenicereus, but at the moment don't have the space/cash to set up a soil table next to the hydro table with both an equal distance from my light. In my case, I like to keep the cactus outside during the growing season, but frequent unpredicted rain showers with soil can be disastrous even to trichos. I switched to hydroton and dunk them all in a bucket of nutrient water several times a week up to once a day when its really hot. Haven't lost any to rot with the hydroton. BTW, Mutant the selencereus you sent me are rooting quite nicely in coco coir seedling medium, and look very happy :lol: .

I think controlling for nutrient delivery would be simple in a drip to waste system, but a bit more difficult in an ebb and flow with reservoir system (like I use) since it would require measuring the decline in reservoir nutrients over time.

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All the mesembs would do well in certain hydro systems Mutant. I recon echeverias and things like that would do ok as long as the right medium was used and they had the opportunity to dry. A flood and drain system on a once a day only flood cycle would work for almost all cacti, assuming the medium was right and the heat was there.

 

Yes, this will work as long as the medium dries out in between watering. Growing cactus hydroponically indoors seems to require much less frequent watering since the water evaporates from the growing media much more slowly.

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Hey guys. Thanks for the input. I've been pretty flat out so time on the net has been limited. I've just made another setup for an experiment. After reading your posts I've decided to make a little "shipping container" setup at home to throw random stuff in to show how it goes. I stupidly didn't take photo's today while I knocked it up but will pull some bits off to show what I've done.

In the sump.

about 8 litres of water

1x little fishtank pump constantly running to circulate the brew and filter debris.

1x fountain pump on a timer which pumps up to feed the channels. It runs on a 15 minute cycle every two hours (until I work out the timing to allow whats in the channel to moisten and dry between cycles)

1x fish tank water heater turned up all the way to 32 deg.

Gladwrap to seal the top of the sump (limit evap - its outdoors - and I'm povo hahaha not)

Channels

first 2

filled with bean bag styrofoam level with the top (limit evap, hold moisture but not much, regulate temp etc)

on top of the channel and styro I have sat seed trays. I half filled each tray with styro and the top layer with vermiculite (one tray I half filled with succulent mix instead of styro to compare)

I have put 9 or ten little lophs. Some are fresh cuttings, some damaged, some going good on their own root, a couple little tiny seedlings - a mix

There are also copiapoa hypogaea, notocactus scopa inermis, blossfeldia liliputana, neochilenia atra, paramount hybrid lobivia and a few others thrown in there for good measure which I cant think of now.

At the moment I have mini greenhouse lids on each seed tray tray until I sort a better lid for the channels (limit evap, maintain temp, bugs out etc)

2nd line up of channel has grit 1cm thick in the bottom. I'm still going to be growing other stuff and this Is where I will sit all my pots not part of the experiment.

The water and nutrient are going to be evap'd or drawn up through everything in small amounts then dry out.

I'll get pic's sorted soon - time for dinner now.

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I've been stuffing around with the setup this morning and thought It was a good day to put a few in and start a bit of a grow diary.

I've spaced it out a bit and left plenty of room for more. Check the pictures and fire away.

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Nothing flash but it does the job.

Watering for 1/2 hour at 08:00 and 15:00 to allow for dry off in between waterings and before dark. It takes 15 minutes for the water to travel through and moisten the media/roots before it makes it back to the sump. Every couple of feet I have used slighty different medium mixes from just straigt styto balls, perlite, verm, succulent mix and peat as well as blends off all.

Light for the system comes from the sun. The lights are for cuttings, bringing seeds up and a bit of a splash on the not well ones I stuff in there.

I've left room between the channel for tubs of pereskiopsis (when I get it) which will be fed from the same sump.

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I'm still fine tuning the waterings.

Moisture was still around 10-15% at the beginning of the 15:00 dose of nutrrients.

Air temp 28-32 for the period between waterings. A bit to much on the moist side of dry for me.

I'm aiming for 0-10% moisture in the channels for 2 hours before the 15:00 nutes to allow time for excess moisture to be drawn away from roots - either by gravity taking moisture back down through the channel to the sump or through evap.

I've added a few more plants by chook selection process (chickens got in greenhouse and knocked a few over).

I have tagged all of them up with numbers and have started taking measurements for my diary. When Ive finished that I'll take new pictures and include measurements.

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HAve you got lophs on there own roots in the channel? I'm not sure if thats a good idea, things like you little desert central Americans have a tap root that can be precarious of natured, moderate watering isn't a problem in hot weather in the right soil mix but be watchful as the temperature cools down and uncontrolled humidity of a channel may promote fungal issues etc. Interesting experiment but I'm curious to see the results.

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HAve you got lophs on there own roots in the channel? I'm not sure if thats a good idea, things like you little desert central Americans have a tap root that can be precarious of natured, moderate watering isn't a problem in hot weather in the right soil mix but be watchful as the temperature cools down and uncontrolled humidity of a channel may promote fungal issues etc. Interesting experiment but I'm curious to see the results.

 

Yep, own root. Those ones are only in there for a week or two to firm up and recover after some bad sunburn. Yesterday the temp was 32 deg and the medium dried out to 0% 30 minutes after the dose with the new watering schedule. They will be right. If they sat in too much moisture for weeks i'd be woried but not worried when Its less than 15% moisture for an hour or two a day. I watch them like a hawk - most days from 6am till 10pm I'm working in and around the nursery with a break during the hottest hours of the day. If they lose their firmness or start to discolor in any way they get pulled and sat on a tray of dry perlite for a while - this hasnt happened for a long time. Most of those lophs were rooted and squishy like sultanas. I was going to get most of them grafted but I threw them in there a few days ago and they have firmed up nicely.

Each of those lophs is placed in the medium so just the tip of the root gets a lick of nutes for a quick feed and dryout. The other assorted cactus are placed in the medium the same way depending if they are deep or shallow rooted - again for a quick lick and dry out. Yesterday I set one channel for a 14:00 watering and the other is 06:00 and 14:00 to see how they go.

How often do you water your cactus? Are they in pots? I bet If you checked your pots for moisture for a few days after watering you would find it is alot more moist in the pots than what this setup is. I've had more problems with plants in pots than In hydro coz you really dont know whats happening in the pots unless you probe them or pull them out for a look. I can pull a plant from the hydro without damaging the roots, inspect it and get it back in there in seconds to keep growing happily.

Everyone worries too much about the water. If they arent soaking in it they will be fine. I've grown lophs in heavily aerated water and fish tanks full of fog/mist under lights with no problem. As long as there is plenty of air exchange everything will be sweet. I might tip some fish out and get a tank going again to make another point.

This isn't an awesome setup - just a very basic version of the shipping containers - just one to make a point which anyone could make for around $100 in materials and $50 for a 100litre bag of perlite.

Over winter all the succulents will be back in the containers or in the nursery so the keep growing well.

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At the 14:00 watering today I will try get a photo of the nutes traveling below the root and show how dry everything is.

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Growing up on a farm and an expensive education here http://www.marcusoldham.vic.edu.au/ and a love of growing stuff has got me to this point.

None of what I'm sharing here is new to me. Nearly 20 years of trial and error with many failures with many plants. I expect some to die off - thats the game when you push things beyond their natural limits. Plants are very adaptable if you work them up to it and dont just start pumping stuff into them.

I don't do anything the normal way.

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Its an interesting take, I like it. Don't take my input the wrong way. I'm always open to new tech.

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Nothing taken the wrong way mate. Other peoples view and input gets me thinking outside my little bubble. If you spot something that you think is rat shit or just plain stupid tell me and If I dont have a good reason for doing it i'll change it up.

I dont want plants that grow like they are on steroids, just good plants. I dont want a loph for example to look like a tennis ball - I want a real hard grown one. All I'm doing is using a different "soil" and micro managing what they get to eat, drink, sunbake in and when lights go out.

They still take a long time to grow unless I graft them to something which I only do when the plant has been messed up or its life is threatened - like on the 1st of Jan when the bloody chooks decided to eat at 17 little buttons. I removed them quick, sliced em in half and got grafting onto some trichs.

I've kept all my knowledge and special plants to myself for a very long time. It wasn't until recently when I tried to save a young bloke that crashed his bike into a 4x4 in front of little school kids at over 200 that I decided to start sharing after a soul search.

I'm just here to share a bit, learn a lot and enjoy life a little more.

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It's been a while but here is how the little setup looks now.

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I got annoyed digging them out of the perlite so I potted everything up. A lot of the plants have changed since the jan 1st post.

Best solitary loph growth was 14mm from 1st Jan to 1st Feb, Others weren't far behind. Not bad considering 1st of Jan was when most were grafted. I'm keen to see how they go over the next two months.

The bigger blossfeldia liliputana flowers like crazy and seems to grow before my eyes. Very happy with it and will do more of them.

I put the Astrophytum caput medusa in the system on Australia day after I forgot to move it in from the sun. It was badly burnt and half of it withered and dropped off. Since Australia day though it has come back strong with a new branch? growing out and the two remaining branches coming back like nothing happened. The new branch has grown 17mm in the time since I first saw it on the 3rd of this month. Very happy with this one.

The big medusa heads got smashed by the sun too and I though I lost them. Everything had yellowed or turned red and withered to nothing. As you can see in the pic's they are going strong again like nothing happened. All the little medusa heads got burnt just the same but are also coming back strong just a little slower. I don't know if you will see it clearly in the pictures. Happy with these too.

I've started propagating pereskiopsis some members were kind enough to send me. My aim is to fill a couple of big hydro grow beds I've built for the pereskiopsis before I start grafting with it. Still a month or two yet. Should also mean I will have a fair bit to share around. I'm amazed at how quick this stuff grows.

Thats enough info for now... I'm still recovering from the weekend

:shroomer::bong::wub:

Any questions, queries or comments?

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