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The Corroboree
Teotzlcoatl

Coleus

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Thank you Huichol_Eyebrow! Bravo! I totally agree with everything you said!

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That remidns me, had anyone sussed out the whole "vietnamese balm" thing. (Elchollzia ?)this too was a plant that was meant to mimic SD

Never heard of that one... do tell!

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If you UTSE I report on many experiences with coleus blumeii.

which strain? how many different strains? pics or it never happened :P

No effect, even smoking crystals isolated.

how did you extract? pics of the crystal?

 

The only other salvia I have found that generated a unique experience was salvia gregorii. It must be said, however, that homegrown young leaf of S Splendens did on one occasion only produce quite strong effects. Subsequent assays with splendens and gregorii extracts were negative, even on the extracted crystal level.

which species have you bioessayed?

To me it's pretty clear: someone who dismisses the definate [read NOT mild] sedative effect of many different salvia species, like splendens , coccinea or superba [those I have personally bioessayed], is probably a hardhead or something. Tens of people [respected members] bioessayed various Salvia species in e-dot forums in a very long thread and found several of them definately sedative. Some/most of them had/have experience with opiates!

As regards to the whole C Blumei thing, it is apparently an Urban Shamanic myth that goes back to a crop of the stuff being grown in the household of one of the original Mexican Shamans that intoduced SD to the west. Apparently the daughter grew it in the yard, and when the shaman was questioned about it, indicated that the "coleus" was the "sister" of S Divinorum. And from thereon it was assumed that coleus has some sort of mild activity.

ok, and now give us the reference , or it too never happened :innocent_n:

what about the other Coleus sp. that 'Plants of the gods' mentions? There are two more in the holy family, excluding SD and C.blumei..... give us your lights!

and oh

naysayers you did not answer this:

is Leonotis active? did you have any effect by smoking the shit alone?

PS: Knowledgeable people over the net, when talking about this topic, Coleus activity, they seem to forget the basic rules of discussion. Instead of replying to new stuff being said, they just repeat a monologue they prepared years ago when they experimented with the funky looking plant which didn't work, therefore it's a myth end of story.

guess what, coleus is active!

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I never said the "other" Salvias were not active, I believe many are.

I just don't think Coleus is active and I think it's misrepresented as being a Mexican psychoactive plant related/allied with Salvia divinorum and in reality this couldn't be further from the truth. It's not native to the Americas and the effects (mild, if any) are nothing like the effects of Salvia divinorum. That's all I'm saying

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Oregano

Interesting... again we see a non-native Coleus-like plant assimilated into Mexican/Hispanic culture. Hmm....

Edited by Teotzlcoatl

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Teotz, you've said this a dozen times in this very thread. Besides, I was replying to Huichol.

In your last post you contradict yourself: you don't believe it's active, but the effects, mild, if any, are not like divinorum.

Yes, indeed, the effects are not like divinorum and actually there are no facts that suggest divinorum-like effects, other than inclusion in Sally D 'holy family' in 'plants of the gods' and wishful thinking looking for the next sally d.

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In your last post you contradict yourself: you don't believe it's active, but the effects, mild, if any, are not like divinorum.

"if any"

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.

Edited by Casuarius
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There seems to be the suggestion that the mazatapec civilisation died out in a particular year. You can go to various small towns in Oaxaca today and see that some locals still hold many of the old customs and beliefs of the mazatapecs quite strongly. And as for the Mayan dying out, some of their cities were still populated - particularly in the Yucatan - when the Spanish arrived.

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So anybody ever come up with some real psychoactive Coleus?

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There is all these half-way "I kinda feel it" BS... I think it's fucking inactive.

somebody take a HUGE amount and if that don't work, it's inactive.

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I had no effect from it, tea and smoking. One of the trip reports I read said he felt like he was seeing from the perspectives of two little men standing on his cheeks.

Yeah buddy, that's where your eyes are. I think he might have meant that distances seemed out of proportion, but all effects are attributable to placebo so far as I can see.

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One of the trip reports I read said he felt like he was seeing from the perspectives of two little men standing on his cheeks.

Yeah buddy, that's where your eyes are.

 

ROFL! classic :lol:

It might be inactive but at least it looks pretty.

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Placebo, that is all it is.

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I trust what my friend told me since he finds hardly anything in any way psychoactive. So I believe that under certain circumstances - perhaps only in synergy - it may be active. It seems pretty strange to assume that because it did nothing for you then its automatically not active.

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Coleus is definately active and noticeable by cannabis synergy, perhaps, as Zen says, it's only noticeable like that.

Btw, Teotz why did you sent me a PM that said 'fuck you mutant' for no apparent reason? was it that this thread got revived?

who knows?

hey T, watch out your protege, he's acting funny again :wink:

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Yeah, yeah, yeah it's active mixed with cannabis standing on your head of a certain strain prepared in a certain way but it only works for 1/3 of people if they have a purple cat climbing up their back.... hahaha.... it's inactive if you ask me... to many "ifs" and you gotta do it "this way" or "that way" or it doesn't work. If active it is extremely mild, along the lines of Catnip or something of that sort.

Why is it in it's native region it is only used medicinally and was never considered psychoactive? You don't think they'd figure it out after 100s or 1000s of years?

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I'm normally the one arguing that things ARE active, believing the myths and rumors... but not on this one....

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In regards to whether or not coleus is native to the americas, Daniel Siebert mentions in an article on his website that coleus is introduced (http://www.sagewisdom.org/ott2.html), and references the following article as the source:

Schultes, R.E. 1967. The place of ethnobotany in the ethnopharmacologic search for psychotomimetic drugs. In: Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs Edited by D.H. Efron, et aI., pp. 33-57. (Public Health Service Publication No. 1645). Washington, D.C.

Unfortunately I haven't managed to find a copy of that article.

That source is actually a government publication (amazing, isn't it, that the government actually at one point supported such a meeting of minds?) which is not under copyright. There's a lot of good info in the book, and I especially recommend it if you're interested in South American snuffing practices. The book can be downloaded from erowid: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/ethnopharmacologic_search.pdf

Regarding the Coleus issue, the first to comment on it was Wasson in his groundbreaking 1962 paper that essentially introduced Salvia divinorum to the world. Even there, the psychoactivity of the plant was ambiguous:

"Salvia divinorum is, in the minds of the Mazatecs, only the most important of several plants, all Labiatae, that they regard as members of the same "family." Salvia divinorum is known as la hembra, "the female." El macho, or "the male" is Coleus pumila, of European origin. Then there is el nene, "the child," and el ahijado, "the godson," which are both forms of Coleus Blumei. Some Indians insist that these others are likewise psychotropic, but we have not tried them; others say these are merely medicinal." (Wasson 1962)

The fact that Coleus is a non-native species hardly seems relevant as far as I can see. After all, we have absolutely no evidence that Salvia divinorum was used at the time of the Conquest (the first clear reference to the plant does not come until 1938), but few would dispute its efficacy on this basis. Even if you hold to the belief that S. divinorum is the Nahua divinatory plant called pipiltzintzintli (which to my mind is extremely unlikely), there is actually no evidence that pipiltzintzintli was used at the time of the Conquest either (the first reference to this plant occurring in 1696, a full 175 years after the Conquest of the Aztecs).

I guess my point is, antiquity has really nothing to do with activity. Coleus blumei does contain terpenoids (Garcia et al. 1974) and flavonoids and coumarins (Lamprecht et al. 1975). The pharmacology of these compounds is unknown. It does not contain forskolin (Shah et al. 1980), a terpenoid which is known to be active and occurs within the genus. Considering the hit-or-miss testimony from bioassays, I think it's safe to say that if C. blumei is active, this activity is only present in particular strains, rather than in the species in general.

One final note: A poster above mentioned testing crystalline extracts for activity. Unless these were obtained as crystals only after separating an extract on a column (or some other fairly rigorous mode of purification), it's not likely that these compounds would be terpenoids, the class of compounds in which we tend to look for activity within the Labiatae. Mixtures of terpenoids will generally present as either amorphous solids or oils, rather than as crystals.

References:

 

  • Garcia, L.L., L.L.l. Cosme, H.R. Peralta, and B.M. Garcia. 1974. "Phytochemical investigation of Coleus blumei Benth.: 1. Preliminary studies of the leaves" Philippine Journal of Science 101(1-2): 1-12.

     

  • Lamprecht, W.O., H. Applegate, and. R.D. Powell. 1975. "Pigments of Coleus blumei" Phyton 33: 157-163.

     

  • Shah, V., S.V. Bhat, B.S. Baiwa, H. Dornauer, and N.J. de Souza. 1980. "The occurrence of forskolin in the Labiatae" Planta Medica 39: 183-185.

     

  • Wasson, R.G. 1962. "A new Mexican psychotropic drug from the mint family" Botanical Museum Leaflets Harvard University 20(3): 77-84.

     

 

Edited by entropymancer
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^^^^

great post, thanks dude

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Why is it in it's native region it is only used medicinally and was never considered psychoactive? You don't think they'd figure it out after 100s or 1000s of years?

Again, pretty surprising argument there. Many medicinal plants used in Chinese medicine are psychoactive at higher doses. This fact isnt really mentioned inmany texts, yet its a fact (since many have potent effects on NE, S and D transporter function - Dang shen and Eucommia bark as an examples)

its also possible that it isnt psychoactive in the literal sense - perhaps it affects acetylacholine levels in the autonomic nervous system, with indirect psychoactive results or potential therefore.

Edited by Zen Peddler BlueGreenie

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I'm normally the one arguing that things ARE active, believing the myths and rumors... but not on this one....

 

What myths and rumors? they use alkaloids from these plants in alzheimer's treatment! use the search engine I and many others have reported the effects of these plants. I found chewing fresh quids of both c.blumii and an unknown bright purple cultivar I found at uni to produce an anxiolytic effect as well as noticing a distinct blue green haze around lights these symptoms went far beyond placebo and have been replicated on several occasions.

Although I did not feel coleus was comparible to salvia divinorium I can see how one might feel the effects are reminiscent of some other salvias and how a civilisation such as the Mazatecs could have employed this plant as an allie for trance work.

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