First Graft/Trying to save variegated plant

[magical9]

So im trying to do my first graft to save this variegated peru i have that wont stop rotting before rooting. I was told i should try grafting it. I am trying to graft it to a well rooted myrtillocactus stump. everything looked great last night (see first 4 pics,nice and wet) but this morning the scion looks to be shriveling so much that i think its pulling away from the rootstock. It is wrenched down pretty well though so my question is... even if the edges of the scion dry and pull away... as long as the core's are overlapped correctly and dont dry out... should it be ok?

Should i do something different to ensure things stay well connected while drying? Im desperate to save this cutting.

Pics 1 - 4 ( Last night )

Edited July 29, 2014 by magical9

[magical9]

Here is what it looks like this morning

almost looks like its already starting to rot/turn to mush. this cutting has been a royal pain in the ass for about 3+ months. it was originally like 12" long!

Edited July 29, 2014 by magical9

[Philocacti]

I once bought a lophophora crest from Thailand that had some internal infection. The main cactus was shriveling and dying so I took many green parts and grafted them on several columnars and pereskiopsis. I also did a few areol grafts to different stocks but they all eventually failed. Some even took and started growing from one end but started to shrivel from the other end until it all died.

I would try to make more grafts using smaller part. I would also trim the edges of the stock as it's obvious in your pic that it's pulling down as it dries.

[magical9]

Ok so im gonna try to recut tonight. i was thinking i would try some sort of socket / joint method of combining them. Like cut the stock in teh shape of a blunt point, and the scion as an inverted cone? so it just sits like a lego piece together.

everyone keeps telling me to cut that scion in half and try two grafts but im just so worried ill lose them by increasing the chance of infection. or should i really cut it in half ?

[zelly]

your graft above is guaranteed to fail, the pictures alone clearly illustrate that.

everyone keeps telling me to cut that scion in half and try two grafts

not me mate.

i recommend you put the knife down, completely callous the cut (use a blow drier if you must), & then root the damn thing on its own roots.

If you want to save your cut, send it to me & i will root it for you.........or you could root it yourself following my instructions explicitly.

FORGET GRAFTING

[hostilis]

Zelly, you're such a graft nazzi. And if you NEVER do grafts how would you know if it's going to fail for sure? You obviously barely have any experience with it if you never do it. I've done hundreds of grafts now and as long as the cores are intersecting, it stays on the stock, and the cactus snot fuses them together it will take in most cases. And if not just leave it there and it will throw out some roots. But I wouldn't go cutting it up even more if I were you. Just leave it there. My first rule of grafting is not to fuck with it after you've already done the graft. Unless the scion falls off or you can see that there is obviously space between the stock/scion vascular cambiums.

[magical9]

your graft above is guaranteed to fail, the pictures alone clearly illustrate that.

not me mate.

i recommend you put the knife down, completely callous the cut (use a blow drier if you must), & then root the damn thing on its own roots.

If you want to save your cut, send it to me & i will root it for you.........or you could root it yourself following my instructions explicitly.

FORGET GRAFTING

ive dried/calloused the end 5 times now since FEB. Sat it in 100% perlite at one point and it still rotted. it finally stayed dried/calloused and not rotted for a month in dirt finally.. then bam rotted again.

so id love to root it out normally and pot it up.. but it keeps rotting.

[djmattz0r]

If you do attempt to regraft I would agree with Philo and trim down the edges of the stock so it pulls away less as it dries and less chances of pupping from the stock later. At least you still have a decent amount of cactus to work with, make sure everything is sterile if you decide to cut again.

What conditions have you been giving it while trying to callous/root? I have had some problems but it was because they were outside in the ambient humidity which helped them rot even though the substrate was completely dry.

Had problems like Philo and grafted a bunch of 'healthy' tissue on multiple grafts to save the cactus and they all eventually turned to rot. Not sure if it was just really bad off or if the humidity was too high but I hope your cactus pulls through!

[magical9]

the first few times i just let it sit out and dry/callous then put it in soil where it promptly turned to rot.

then i calloused it and tried putting it in 100% perlite where it promptly turned to rot.

then i set it in front of a fan in the garage for 2 weeks. this dried it up the best. i placed it in an empty pot just to keep it upright for a month or so... nothing happening... so i planted it in dry soil. after about a month i used a spray bottle to spritz the top of the soil ever so lightly. I figured since it was super calloused that it would help encourage roots and be fine... it then rotted on the sides that were under the soil. but did not rot out the bottom portion... so it makes me think even if it had roots.. it still would have rotted out the side anyway.

im going to try regrafting tonight. trim the edges of the stock. and do some sort of lego like connection between rootstock/scion. if this doesnt appear to take.. then ill just try drying it in front of a fan again and hope that it grows roots in a few years before it shrivels completely into a pile of dust.

also ill add that i have a few other peices from this plant that kept rotting as well but i did manage to get a few rooted.

also also the temps and humidity levels have been 100-120F and 30% rH with the occasional monsoon storm for a few days.

Edited July 29, 2014 by magical9

[wert]

Sounds to me like you may not be letting your cuttings calous for long enough. 2 weeks in front of a fan?

U could do that then as hellonasty has suggested elsewhere put a sock on the last inch or so of the cut end then leave it for a few months to throw roots.

Calouses need to be well formed and nice thick hard bark like to prevent moisture soaking up into your wounds

This will not happen in two weeks no matter what you do.

[zelly]

hostilis- just because you've read the first chapter or two does not mean you're capable of accurately synthesizing the whole book.

it's entirely possible my alzheimer addled brain has forgotten more about grafting than you'll ever know......and personally choose not to go down that road if there is a better solution. Heh- i just now remembered the MJ - hops grafting I did back in the mid 70's.

the problem with humans & cactus is humans want the cactus to perform on the humans schedule. Instant gratification!

show me roots NOW, NOW GODDAMNIT NOW!!!

meanwhile, the plant is saying fuq you, I'm growing roots when i get damn good and ready.

completely OT, but I've this 12" potted unidentified Cereus plant that hasnt grown one iota in 10+ years.

I water & fertilize it, as much or as little as all my other plants. Not one iota of visible growth anywhere for 10 years. Today I spotted new growth at the tip.

Was 10 years too long to wait?

[mutant]

I agree with zelly * a bit or more...

magic is so fucking hasty and cacti doesnt seem to teach him patience... so far that is..

how old are you anywayz?

and more over he seems a bit scroodge to me, which I dont really like especially for someone starting to have a collection ...

I am a very impatient, hasty man... cacti are great for/with me because of that... I am taught that each one has different schedules.. cacti and succulents do...!

man if you rotted it 5 times, then you're obviously doing it wrong...

sell it to me, or trade the fucker for the spineless scop you're looking...

I have never had a variegated tricho ()just have a slow growing cereus mosntrosa) and I'd love to have one...

you are obviously not yet meant to have one... you are not worthy enough...

PS: I hope you catch the humoar and not take all literally

PS2: definately paying or trading for something cool any pachanoi or pervuvianus variegated... if ya wanna help me opr sell , PM me... There was even a variegated penis around... still looking for it

cheers

Edited July 29, 2014 by mutant

[magical9]

Sounds to me like you may not be letting your cuttings calous for long enough. 2 weeks in front of a fan?

U could do that then as hellonasty has suggested elsewhere put a sock on the last inch or so of the cut end then leave it for a few months to throw roots.

Calouses need to be well formed and nice thick hard bark like to prevent moisture soaking up into your wounds

This will not happen in two weeks no matter what you do.

i wasnt clear. 2 weeks infront of a fan sped up the drying. it then dried further just outside in the heat for over a month, then another month in dirt before it rotted again.

[Optimystic]

@ Zelly - none of us are old enuff to have a cactus for 10 years yet j/k

@ magical9... I did the same thing as you... I fell in love with these plants and so I rushed into it and got lots and lots of plants

and learned alot of things the hard way at first... these are cool because they're always inspiring but my back hurts.. .anyways you'll

figure it out...

that mush looks bad and showed up pretty fast I wouldnt wait til tonight to cut but its almost tonight anyways... these lessons are good tho

makes you more careful and more patient about things... I have good luck with PC's j ust leaving them air dry til they pop a root.. so long as they've dried a good bit I even let them get rained on and where they get a little dappled sun but if its warm they'll pop a root... when its hot some trichos just stop tho, and I think the temps there are wayyyy too hot for doing a tricho graft... when its over 100 I wouldn't graft unless its indoors and then acclimate to heat later, especially a variegate tricho...

i'd cut far above the mush, at least an inch with a sterile blade, and be ready to sterilize it if theres any evidence that the mush did any traveling... and recut if you have to... I made the mistake of leaving a tiny spot one time so make sure all you see is good clean cactus tissue but sometimes if theres an external scar the skin under it can look odd but isnt' bad unless its soft... after that you might try drying in a cooler spot thats not over 100 degrees... I would also attemt to save any good aereoles and practice aereole grafting but i'd really read up on it before attempting that.... but for that plant that would be my plan, only difference I would have done it already cause thats some ugly mush in fact if you read this before you chop the mush off I think ur a terrible cactus father, but thats just me, im getting kinda old but not up there with Zelly yet

anyways thats the main thing I want to add is that I think the heat is a factor thats not really tricho weather but they can tolerate it

once established, but frankly if your temps are that hot I wouldn't put too much drainage materials in your soils either eh.. thats an unrooted variegate... so if your gonna do grafts personally i'd advise it indoors through a bright window with broken light that doesn't get seering hot... and then acclimate to the desert conditions later when you've had healthy growth...

Has ANYONE ever had success with any type of trich graft, exposed to temps over 100 degrees prior to the graft union being formed? maybe so but i doubt it

Edited July 29, 2014 by Spine Collector

[mutant]

and yeah this quote

" Was 10 years too long to wait?"

is fucking awesome

[mutant]

is this happening in zone 9 or 11 ??

[magical9]

I agree with zelly *

magic is so fucking hasty and cacti doesnt seem to teach him patience... so far that is..

and more over he seems a bit scroodge to me, which I dont really like especially for someone starting...

I am a very impatient, hasty man... cacti are great for/with me because of that... I am taught that each one has different schedules.. cacti and succulents do...!

man if you rotted it 5 times, then you're obviously doing it wrong...

sell it to me, or trade the fucker for the spineless scop you're looking...

I have never had a variegated tricho ()just have a slow growing cereus mosntrosa) and I'd love to have one...

you are obviously not yet meant to have one... you are not worthy enough...

PS: I hope you catch the humoar and not take all literally

PS2: definately paying or trading for something cool any pachanoi or pervuvianus variegated... if ya wanna help me opr sell , PM me... There was even a variegated penis around... still looking for it

cheers

..... this has zero to do with my patience level. So little info yet so many conclusions...

If i didnt know what i was doing.. i wouldnt have shit tons of rooted cactus in my yard. Having a single hard to root piece give me problems over a 6 month period and only just now am i posting for some assistance.. is hardly impatience. Ive got plenty of experience growing other types of plants over the years. Cactus isnt difficult in the slightest bit.. its just something new im learning. Therefore i too will run into some pitfalls. Some before the average beginner and some after.

magic is so fucking hasty and cacti doesnt seem to teach him patience... so far that is..

how old are you anywayz?

and more over he seems a bit scroodge to me, which I dont really like especially for someone starting to have a collection ...

:drinks a beer, proceeds to talk out ass: oh wait...thats not me!

a scrooge... only when drunks talk out their ass to me? perhaps.

[mutant]

"Has ANYONE ever had success with any type of trich graft, exposed to temps over 100 degrees prior to the graft union being formed? maybe so but i doubt it"

does oz and us have the same temperature system?

tell us how hot this is and dont assume you're in usa, you're in an international forum

[magical9]

@ Zelly - none of us are old enuff to have a cactus for 10 years yet j/k

@ magical9... I did the same thing as you... I fell in love with these plants and so I rushed into it and got lots and lots of plants

and learned alot of things the hard way at first... these are cool because they're always inspiring but my back hurts.. .anyways you'll

figure it out...

that mush looks bad and showed up pretty fast I wouldnt wait til tonight to cut but its almost tonight anyways... these lessons are good tho

makes you more careful and more patient about things... I have good luck with PC's j ust leaving them air dry til they pop a root.. so long as they've dried a good bit I even let them get rained on and where they get a little dappled sun but if its warm they'll pop a root... when its hot some trichos just stop tho, and I think the temps there are wayyyy too hot for doing a tricho graft... when its over 100 I wouldn't graft unless its indoors and then acclimate to heat later, especially a variegate tricho...

i'd cut far above the mush, at least an inch with a sterile blade, and be ready to sterilize it if theres any evidence that the mush did any traveling...

and recut if you have to... I made the mistake of leaving a tiny spot one time so make sure all you see is good clean cactus tissue but sometimes if theres an external scar the skin under it can look odd but isnt' bad unless its soft... after that you might try drying in a cooler spot thats not over 100 degrees... I would also attemt to save any good aereoles and practice aereole grafting but i'd really read up on it before attempting that.... but for that plant that would be my plan, only difference I would have done it already cause thats some ugly mush in fact if you read this before you chop the mush off I think ur a terrible cactus father, but thats just me, im getting kinda old but not up there with Zelly yet

anyways thats the main thing I want to add is that I think the heat is a factor thats not really tricho weather but they can tolerate it

once established, but frankly if your temps are that hot I wouldn't put too much drainage materials in your soils either eh.. thats an unrooted variegate... so if your gonna do grafts personally i'd advise it indoors through a bright window with broken light that doesn't get seering hot... and then acclimate to the desert conditions later when you've had healthy growth...

Has ANYONE ever had success with any type of trich graft, exposed to temps over 100 degrees prior to the graft union being formed? maybe so but i doubt it

why does everyone think that they know me enough to conclude that i rushed into collecting cactus? Because im asking questions that pertain to my many cactus? Is there a certain collection rate one should adhere to lol? Maybe a certain ratio of forum posts:cactus that one owns? People learn differently than others, especially me. I learn by diving deep into new passions and I usually end up the rain man in the subject over time.

no one has rushed into anything, as rushing into something implies that i didnt think ahead or calculate what i was doing.

anyways. spine collector i appreciate the useful feedback. I guess i just assumed shade outdoors would be fine like all my other cuttings that im rooting/drying. Ill try bringing it indoors to dry after cutting off the rot assuming i dont continue learning to graft it.

hopefully thats not all too hasty! /S

Edited July 29, 2014 by magical9

[Philocacti]

Returning to cacti

Trichocereus and most columnars root in 3 weeks except in winter, where I live.

Lophophora on the other hand takes almost 1-2 years to root, so patience is relative.

I also agree with zelly, that every individual cactus has it's own schedule.

I'm very impatient that's why I love grafting so it's not that bad my friend ;)

Edited July 30, 2014 by Philocacti

[magical9]

I appreciate everyones input. I regrafted the cutting. looks way better than last night i think. we'll see how it looks in the mornin

[Evil Genius]

Alright, cleaned this mess up. Mutant, drunk posting isn´t a good Idea. This is an international forum and i don´t want this Anti-US Attitude, not even when you are joking. Most people will not get the Joke and some of the stuff you wrote was really wtf. Please retain from writing about rooting cacti in someones pussy or any other Insult.

[mutant]

I was not joking, someone must have put tropanes in my drink and terrible things must have happened, I dont remember though

The devil made me do it

PS: "some of the stuff you wrote was really wtf" - that must explain the like I got!

[magical9]

Hope everyone got that i was joking!

So i regrafted it last night and here are the pics this morn. seems better than last time. its on their pretty snug with top down pressure. pics kinda suck. anyway ill just leave it be for now and see what happens.

Edited July 30, 2014 by magical9

[Optimystic]

no worries Magical9... its just thats how I learned to graft too, but trying to save plants I screwed up.... lol

maybe you did or didn't rush I know how fun these can be to collect im pretty compulsive about it, I just

know how things feel when the workload gets to a certain point and im not sure you got to that point yet...

but you use a water hose so it might take longer for you ... hehe

best of luck with that graft I hope it takes and makes a bouqet of variegatas... i've done several hundred grafts

and damn near 100% on pereskies but grafting variegates still makes me nervous eh

im well aware of that Mutant... USA and Australia are pretty big continents... lots of similarities.. good and bad eh-he

Edited July 30, 2014 by Spine Collector