the 'TPM' thread

[highdesertcacti]

if this thread is already going let me know.

there are literally dozens of tpm's around now, and its high time we start organizing some collective info on em, heh?

SO, please post your trichocereus P (pach or peru) monstrose pics here. please comment in detail, source, and whether its confirmed or assumed. also if you have any more info on some of the tpm's out there, please share

(i'll post the pics of my 4 different types of tpm's after editting them)

Edited November 15, 2015 by highdesertcacti

[highdesertcacti]

so, ill get the ball roll'n:

rumor: the manager of sun moon nursery in las vegas told me, they sourced their tpm's/crests from ccc who a. got them imported with great difficulty from peru years ago, and b. sold clones to altmans originally. the gal who shared this with me is not a trich-trick and is pretty reliable with her info...

[sagiXsagi]

very interesting thread

I have had two clones of pachanoi monstrosa/crest for years.

1. was bought from kada's garden, who once said his clones dont really crest , while mine both crest and do columnar monstrosa growth. The columns might alternate between normal and monster growth or terminate at some point or more rarely revert back to crest. Rooted columns pup from the base like the normal pachanoi habit.

This clone seems to be the most common form seen in USA, and I suspect its the same or very similar to the fabulous specimens of M S Smith that was once known as "short spined peruvianus" (a wrong term for which Smith has explained a couple times) . The "altmans clone" also fell into my attention lately, and it too looks a bit of the same "persuation" , that is columnar monster growth.. I would love to see more pics of this "Altman clone" as well a description of the habits would be awesome!

I used to call this kada strain, so maybe we call call this smith/kada or TPM#1 , for the sake of ease in this discussion.

2. was bought from Plapp's german nursery , and seems to be the commonest form found in europe. Its a faster grower than TPM#1 and it maintains the crest habit at all times. Larger specimens pup from near the base and pups might sometimes start columnarish, but soon enough they crest .

Lets call this TPM#2 , or TPM europe or TPM crest or crest form

^^^^^^^^^^^

a nice specimen of TPM#2 . The front crest came from a new pup that started columnarish, then crested

and both of them, 2+2 big specimens , in the same pic

at the right, 2x TPM#2 crest form and at the right 2x TPM#1 (kada/smith) . You can see one of the TPM#1's also has a large crest (photo taken on June)

Edited November 16, 2015 by sagiXsagi

[highdesertcacti]

the ccc clone is refered to by many here in the us as 'short spined peru'. i imagine it is the same as altmans tpm

[sagiXsagi]

there are also (?):

* TPQC (USA) with a strange story of crestation.... this clone played a role in nitrogen 2012 hybrids progeny .. apparently the cactus went monstrosa after a snail attack. I seem to have a specimen of a non-monstrosa tpqc (sourced from some nooker).

*TPC (USA) also vital to nitrogen 2012 hybrids progeny. This rather looks like TPM#2 , the europe , crest form, but who knows?

*several claims for 'pervuvianus' crests that seem pachanoi

*some pachanoi crest shown a couple months ago from Philocacti, which seemed to have longer spines than usual

*an ozzie "Hammiltons crest", labeled both as peruvianus and cuzcoensis (seems to be the latter)

*an yet another ozzie "pachanoi/peruvianus" crest that seems to be different to those I have, but I haven't really grown this out a lot. (this came as a graft)

I have rooted a couple cuttings from both those two last ozzies, so next year I will hopefully see something interesting.

*last but not least, I remember a couple very distinctive individuals created from nitro 2012 seed (one particularly grown by naja naja I think, which seemed to have some bridgesii traits.. ) I am sure , if all these seedlings are grown out and cut and propagated, there might be some new distinctive monster varieties in a couple years!

[sagiXsagi]

so, its possbile CCC=altmans=kada/smith/PCM#1 no?

[zelly]

(i'll post the pics of my 4 different types of tpm's after editting them)

[sagiXsagi]

apart from pics, people with some years of growing experience are encouraged to make a short description of their clone and growing habits.

I will return with more pics eventually, people chime in, show your pachanoi crests, will ya?

[highdesertcacti]

starting with confirmed altman's

so here are two from altman's confirmed. the first i have grown for years and never seen anything but ONE rib shift, and its clones have been grown in multiple conditions. i refer to this as totem pole (maybe it said it on the altmans pot? idk why i call it that). the second clone is the typical altmans tpm. it is pretty reliable to have short spines except for the occasional late 1"+ spine that shoots on older growth. the third is another altman's tpm --- its an ugly!

*forgot to mention, i assume the 'totem pole' to be the 'short spine peruvianus' from CCC

Edited November 17, 2015 by highdesertcacti

[highdesertcacti]

a tpqc which i recvd for my birthdayalmost a year ago- purchased from Misplant.

i think my question on the tpqc stems from another thread i read where nitro stated it was sourced from a chain store; and it's reverts look like altman's 'true pach' (what do we call that clone? is there already a name?); and its seeds have never produced mutation (for me at least); could it be the same clone?

*edit: tbc, "it was sourced from a chain store;" was the only part i was trying to say i remember nitro stating. the rest is my observation...

***EDIT: this not TPQC, but rather Nitrogen's TPC.

Edited November 23, 2015 by highdesertcacti

[sagiXsagi]

comments on highdesert post#9 , about "altmans clone"

well its seems to me PCM#1/kada-smith/altmans are on the same page, if not the same

we know "short spined peruvianus" is smiths specimen and we know HE coined the term.

your description and the pictures I see fit exactly, from the longer spines on older growth, to the anus-like termination, to the rib formation and phenotype, except one thing, mine haven't ever stayed in normal growth for so long. They seem to usually alternate.... But this could be explained in other ways.. I have more thoughts on this, but I will share at a later point. How long did you say you're growing it? its in the ground huh?

your comment, #10, man I dont really get ya wut your saying. I have to reap up again on what nitro has said about TPQC and whatanot

PS: I dont really feel like naming them, I just used the terms PCM#1 (columnar) and PCM#2 (crest only) to differantiate between two substantially different clones. #1 and #2 for practical reasons.. you can still use the name "altmans" , there's not confusion if there's only two main phenotypes.

Edited November 17, 2015 by sagiXsagi

[highdesertcacti]

some tpm's from ss.

let me say, there are alot more pics of his freaks out there. some can be found on trichocereus.net under the field trips section. i also have a few friends on here who may chime in with a few of theres that are different then mine either because they were seed grown or because theyre one of the clones that i havent personally collected. but pictures of mine (and yes the last pic is my cactus but ben's pic).

so the first and the last are both seed grown 08611.4 tpm's one obviously crested and the othe looking as typical as a tpm mutant can look. the first he labeled 08611.4 clone a in the 2015 spring sale. the second i just bought from him labeled as a crest. these are both 'sisters' of azs 'leyenda' he had multiple different monsters that came from these seed. i also have three normal forms from the same seed batch. he indicated in his field notes that there was a monstrose pachanoi near the mother from which the seed came. i believe i heard that ccc originally got there tpm from lima, peru. but there are alot of tpms in lima as the internet has allowed us to see.

the second is bk14518.5 which also produced alot of mutants and crests and normals, i opt'd to buy a crest and a normal- sorry no mutant to show here. i did buy a seed pack of this one and the .4 tho and hope to get some mutant in there! hopefully the crest spits mutant reverts as well.

its worth mentioning here there are other tpm's he has made available over the last few years,

and that he has also done a lot of tpmx pachanoid x's like pallarensis, huanacamba, pc, etc. he has also x'd tpm with alot of other species. between him, misplant, nitro, and some of you other maniacs the water is getting a little muddy... AND WE LIKE IT!

[highdesertcacti]

some tpm's from ss.

let me say, there are alot more pics of his freaks out there. some can be found on trichocereus.net under the field trips section. i also have a few friends on here who may chime in with a few of theres that are different then mine either because they were seed grown or because theyre one of the clones that i havent personally collected. but pictures of mine (and yes the last pic is my cactus but ben's pic).

so the first and the last are both seed grown 08611.4 tpm's one obviously crested and the othe looking as typical as a tpm mutant can look. the first he labeled 08611.4 clone a in the 2015 spring sale. the second i just bought from him labeled as a crest. these are both 'sisters' of azs 'leyenda' he had multiple different monsters that came from these seed. i also have three normal forms from the same seed batch. he indicated in his field notes that there was a monstrose pachanoi near the mother from which the seed came. i believe i heard that ccc originally got there tpm from lima, peru. but there are alot of tpms in lima as the internet has allowed us to see.

the second is bk14518.5 which also produced alot of mutants and crests and normals, i opt'd to buy a crest and a normal- sorry no mutant to show here. i did buy a seed pack of this one and the .4 tho and hope to get some mutant in there! hopefully the crest spits mutant reverts as well.

its worth mentioning here there are other tpm's he has made available over the last few years,

and that he has also done a lot of tpmx pachanoid x's like pallarensis, huanacamba, pc, etc. he has also x'd tpm with alot of other species. between him, misplant, nitro, and some of you other maniacs the water is getting a little muddy... AND WE LIKE IT!

[sagiXsagi]

TCM#1 / kada's garden / looks like Smiths "short spined peruvianus" (wrong name), and probably CCC and altmans clone too.

terminations . specimen on the right has 3 pups at the base now

this clone wasn't really columnar for me when I received it. Well it was, but it reverted to crest first thing... so had to try and revert this clone to columnar monstrosa growth (I had already a full crest pachanoi). It seems I made it, and that's where the thoughts I talked about earlier lie... with patience and time you can make several different shapes from the very same clone..

^ this is also PCM#1 ... it seems cutting in crested areas results in cresty pups (hint hint)

[highdesertcacti]

some random tpc that are shooting tpms that were sourced from a nursery in the middle of nowhere by the mexican border. they had a TON of them and there were dirt cheap

source or clone unknown

[highdesertcacti]

a tpc cut from the uncle's mega crest. obtained in garden grove, ca from "an old japanese lady in the 80's" the reverts are almost spineless fat chunk normal columns.not realy a tpm but worth a share.

[sagiXsagi]

post #13 pic 4 , seems interesting but needs a bigger pot no?

[sagiXsagi]

#16 why not a tpm? TPC = TPM as crest is a monstrosity

we dont exclude the crest types do we?

Edited November 17, 2015 by sagiXsagi

[sagiXsagi]

#15 does it look a bit like PC, that one, or is it just rootbound and unwatered?

[highdesertcacti]

ss sells two "tpm"'s without habitat source that are always available, that i assume he commercially sourced, one cl.a and one cl. b. maybe he has some input on the more common commercial clones.

[highdesertcacti]

post #13 pic 4 , seems interesting but needs a bigger pot no?

typical of plants at ss, trust me, i will love it tender when it arrives!

#16 why not a tpm? TPC = TPM as crest is a monstrosity

we dont exclude the crest types do we?

eh... you could but that clouds the waters even more for the topic imo,,, but its just my opinion. the fact that the reverts are normal (like tpqc, but unlike altmans tpm) is why i said non-tpm

i assume the cresting started from physical damage, but who knows?

#15 does it look a bit like PC, that one, or is it just rootbound and unwatered?

not rootbound just potted to high, next year otr the following when it out grows that pot it still wont be rootbound cuz its one of those new nifty-difty smart pots ;)

[highdesertcacti]

i have a few of these sourced from europe,,, ill have to grow them before i have anything to really say bout them

[sagiXsagi]

my opinion is that semi-mosntrosa's should be also discussed, especially if someone has a clone for a period of time, so that he know the habits, as I already said ...

[highdesertcacti]

finally peruxjuul's monstrose- relevant,,, idk? but this is another seed batch that produced mutations and crests, i have four clones of this seed batch, 2 only vary slightly (pictured), 1 is a consistent monstrose columnar (that alot of you have seen elsewhere), and one is such a tight crest that it has curled all the way over on itself, like a clinched fist.

k. done for now ill take more pics later

Edited November 17, 2015 by highdesertcacti

[highdesertcacti]

 

your comment, #10, man I dont really get ya wut your saying. I have to reap up again on what nitro has said about TPQC and whatanot

im asking if the tpqc, before the snail incident, could have been the altman's 'true pachanoi' (for lack of a better desc) ?