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The Corroboree

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a couple of links to science headed value reading, just in case anybody still waits on that developing into the total story suddenly

http://hpathy.com/sc...nanotechnology/

(turns out scientists were wrong about the placebo value of homeopathy, but only wrong by a few stray atoms)

I think that to understand the principles involved, a person needs to have homeopathic remedies prescribed for themselves and individuals, AND, to actually make a remedy from scratch, for giving to somebody else. The experiential lesson is invaluable.

http://aminchakrabor...logspot.com.au/

(that weblog is a collection of good ideas about what else could be happening simultaneous with nanoparticles being present)

and next a couple of links of myself having a bit of a yarn about what I've been doing in homeopathy, (despite being newly an online student at an institute that discourages students from practicing, I have already been prescribing on and off during the past 9 years, and had good results; homeopathy is unregulated legislatively in Australia, and regulated by voluntary membership of professional organisations who can enable private health ensurance rebates for anybody who pays for private health insurance, who are not who I have treated, . . . however my current situation as a student of homeopathy at a professional, and apparently well reputed, institution, which seeks to sustain the knowledge of homeopathy as the privy of only their own graduates, causes me to need to promote my skills in Shamanic healing rather than skills in homeopathy, and simultaneously discourage other students from aligning themselves with me), aligned with indigenous Shamanic type healing:

http://forum.hpathy....t-of-addiction/

http://anexorcistspa...24/hello-world/

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Actually it is perfectly logical. An "anti-body" has "anti-" not "ante-" as its prefix.

 

My point is that if you already have the illness, then you are already producing the antibodies, and I see no reason that a tiny amount of another substance that has a similar effect is going to increase the production of antibodies. The vaccines that work this way cannot be taken to fight a pre-existing infection.

From on of the links you provided:

Certain highly diluted homeopathic remedies made from metals still contain measurable amounts of the starting material, even at extreme dilutions of 1 part in 10 raised to 400 parts”

This statement is completely contradictory. Considering that there are about 10^80 atoms in the observable universe, we would need a sample that is about 10^320 times the amount of matter in the observable universe in order to have a good chance that there is a single particle in it.

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Haha, so I did the smart thing and went to the original source, and I can't help but feel that the findings were misrepresented in the article you linked to. Here is a quote from the actual peer-reviewed research paper that was cited in the article:

Another question that arises from our observations is how in spite of such huge dilutions the particles of the starting materials are retained even at 200c potency? The answer to this question could lie in the manufacturing process itself. We perceive that during the succussion process, the pounding of solutions against a rubber stop generates numerous nanobubbles19 as a result of entrapment of air and cavitation due to generation of ultra-sound waves. The particles of the starting material instantaneously get adsorbed on the surface of these bubbles and cavitations. This phenomenon could be similar to the mechanism of formation of Pickering emulsions, [20], [21] and [22] wherein the emulsified phase viz. air bubbles or liquid droplets are stabilized by a layer of particles.

This nanoparticle–nanobubble complex rises to the surface and can be within a monolayer once the total metal concentrations are well below 1 ppm (Table S6 – Supplementary information). It is this 1% of the top layer of the solution which is collected and added to the next vessel, into 99 parts of fresh solvent and the succussion process is repeated. This transfer of the top 1% layer in each step will ensure that once we reach below a certain concentration i.e. well within a monolayer, the entire starting material continues to go from one dilution to the next, resulting in an asymptote beyond 6c.

So basically, what they are saying is that it appears that the dilution process is not effective below a certain concentration, so basically there are particles in there because you're just mixing it with water, then they seperate, you throw the water away, and you end up with the same concentration. This is completely different to what was presented on the homeopathy website.

This is not to say that this isn't an important factor in deciding if there is a foundation for homeopathic treatments. If this occurs with most substances, then there is actually traces of the substance left in the dilution, and perhaps, if there was evidence that homeopathy worked, this would provide a theoretical explanation. However, I can't help feeling that clutching at such a finding in support of belief in homeopathy kind of makes a mockery of the supposed theoretical basis behind homeopathy, i.e. extreme dilutions.

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the doctrine of extreme dilutions is actually not the most important aspect of what homeopathy is

a lot of homeopaths focus on proving the dilution is sustaining the character of the original substance, but only because they want more patients and money

In fact, the more important part of homeopathy, is in that the doctrine is of "like cures do like"

Even if it is all placebo effect, just the process of a homeopath finding what plant, mineral, or animal by-product, is most similar to a patients disease process, can help the patient by aiding their self knowledge.

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oh no! I have killed the thread :(

but seriously, does anyone know enough about homoeopathy to be able to tell me if the above is a fair point. No water = no homoeopathic remedies.

Its a shame Sonny Jims question wasn't answered

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