Jump to content
The Corroboree

Recommended Posts

I would like to have a seriouse discussion on homeopathy.

I would like to discuss how it works.

I invision it to work on a Quantum level, i invision that the vibration from a single molecule effects the vibrations of the water and in turn effects the virbatrions of your body... But how does this really work scientificaly on a quantum level. I have spoke to homeopaths (many) and noone really knows how it works, there has to be more to it then a placebo effect, on homeopath said it was the entire process that does the healing much like a shaman's ritual, the persional level and the buildup is what heals not the "potion".... I think its more then this or simply a placebo

There are many great success storys with homeopathy and a few double blind trials that proove it has uses but how does it work?

can any quantum physicist out there please expalin to me how homeopathy actually works, or any one have any idea's, from my understanding not even 1 mole is in the liquid its so diluted 0_o....

would like to touch on flower essense also but i imagine it to work the same way, with vibrations of the atoms 0_o ....??????? any clues???

-v

Collection of PROOF:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Homeopathic

Science:

White holes and nano crystaloids... radioactivity.... bio electricity... 0_o

WHAT THE!!....

Edited by vual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a clue on any of the scientific explanations, only one anecdotal report. A few weeks before being admitted for major surgery in my late teens, a family friend had gotten me a homoeopathic "prescription" I had pretty much NFI how it was supposed to work. In the first lot of pillules I had, one of them was supposedly for "depressive" states (I didn't know which one was which when my mum gave them to me) and less than half an hour later I felt so exultant! Inexplicably! Lasted for the rest of the day, but I don't think I ended up having any more of them. I found the packet years later and figured out it was probably Aconitum. I vaguely remembered thinking "lol a cone..."

I'm now of the impression homoeopathy is based on immunisation principles, a small amount of antagonist to build up appropriate response? REally not sure though. All I can say for sure is that my one experience was definitely not a placebo. Around the same few days the same family friend performed kinesiology on me which also elicited a severe and not placebic response; I nearly fainted suddenly when my body was asked a particular question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spose you can say its based on imunisation princibles, It works on the priincible (aparently) that only one sickness can be handled inside your body at any one time, so to cure you they give you a new weak sickness and your body concentrates on that new sickness, essentially pushing out your old one... (this is what they teach in university in regards to it).

but there is not one mole of the substance in a dilution.......

So that means it has to be energy/vibration related.??

Essentialy it works like this:

you go in with a headache and spots on your tounge.

they look in there book of experiments..

find what substance made someone else get a headache and spots on there tounge.

then they give you a "energy imprint" of that substance.

here is a idea of how diluted is is for you:

get 1 marble and place in inside the earth, then take the entire universe and times it by 1 billion...

that is how diluted it is, there is not 1 mole (avagardos number) in the mixture.... so its defiantly not chemical.... 0_o

I have experianced "rescue remedy" and wow is it amazing much like what you mentioned with the "anti-depressent" but it wasnt placebo for i thought homeopathy was compleate bullshit before this....

i really wish someone would get to the bottom of it. you can do a fucken major in health science in it here in australia but noone knows how it works 0_o.. take Randi's 1million!!!

James randi has been known to eats a entire box of homeopathic sleeping pills on stage and not even yawn (ie: energy imprint of caffeine).

(Australian goverment is trying to cut funding for student loans for homeopathy degrees they are coming down on it hard... Higher learning might even abolish reconising it compleatly the way things are looking )

mole = http://en.wikipedia....Mole_%28unit%29

Edited by vual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting you tak about keniseology when i asked how homeopathy REALLY works....

Crystals is right it seems.... not to much on this, rather new... and i dont know if this guy is really reputable he seems rather mad.

nano crystaoids made from extracts of plant animal and mineral substances transform the background radiation into specific electro magnetic signals that act on cellular and molecular level...

 

 

http://www.scienceofhomeopathy.com

Bill Gray, MD: The Structure of Water, from Homeopathy, Myth or Science?

http://books.google.com/books?id=6lXbygsxTNcC&lpg=PA63&ots=BvooEfiBSC...

Montaignier: Electromagnetic Signals Are Produced by Aqueous Nanostructures Derived from Bacterial DNA Sequences

http://www.springerlink.com/content/0557v31188m3766x/fulltext.pdf

Elia: The Memory of Water: an almost deciphered enigma. Dissipative structures in extremely dilute aqueous solutions. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WXX-4P9YJKB-6&...

http://www.citeulike.org/user/apgaylard/article/5840758

The Structure Of Liquid Water; Novel Insights From Materials Research; Potential Relevance To Homeopathy

Rustum Roy, W.A. Tiller, Iris Bell, M. R. Hoover

Materials Research Innovations 9:4, 577-608, (2005)

http://hpathy.com/research/Roy_Structure-of-Water.pdf

1994 Ultra High Dilutions Physiology and Physics

P.C. Endler and J. Schulte

Presenting data on ultra high dilution (UHD) from physiological laboratories, this study evaluates physical theories, examines biochemical aspects, appraises the medical and historical context of current research and looks at future research prospects.

SMALL WATER CLUSTERS (CLATHRATES) IN THE PREPARATION PROCESS OF HOMEOPATHY

G.S. Anagnostatos

http://books.google.com/books?id=XA4y1jdRxVsC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&...

1998 High dilution effects on cells and integrated systems

By P. Marotta, C. Taddei-Ferretti, Istituto italiano per gli studi filosofici

On the Structure of High Dilutions According to the Clathrate Model

G.S. Anagnostatos, Institute of Nuclear Physics, National Center for Scientific Research, Demokritos Aghia, Paraskevi, Attiki, Greece

http://books.google.com/books?id=2Iu5Xp9OxbIC&pg=PA305&lpg=PA305&...

 

Edited by vual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well since you asked...

There is no scientific basic for homeopathy from the perspective of either chemistry or physics. The dilutions can be so extreme that, well I'm sure you've read this one:

"A popular homeopathic treatment for the flu is a 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum. As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10^320 more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."

That is however, an extreme look at things and more common homeopathic solutions may actually have molecules other than solvent.

However, plenty of people believe in plants spirits, or religion, neither of which have any basic in science but that still (apparantly) enrich their lives.

I don't buy into the whole homeopathic thing but that doesn't change the fact that a whole lot of people find it very helpful, even life changing perhaps.

So if it works for you then that's great, but it's not because of chemistry or physics.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

seems we have been thinking on the wrong level, get into a nano quantum level ><

seems there is science for it quantum science, nano bubbles and shit 0_o lol.....

what do you make about that video i posted?? honestly if theres is no science to it why can i go major in it with a health science degree? (currently that is... maybe for not much longer)... seems strange that one needs to do a B.Hs to practice it if its just hocus pocus.

Everything has a basis for science, even plant spirts do on a quantum or energy level, we just havnt figured out how to capture it and mesure it yet that all.

this seems to be the science behind homeopathy....

the industry better catch up or they will lose al regulations they have. Many goverments around the world are trying to put a stop to it despite all the blind evidence based clinical trials up on pubmed that support it... Maybe a big pharma conspiracy here woud make mediceine cheap... and they have the power to delay research and control goverments.

"Electromagnetic signals are produced by aqueous nanostructures derived from bacterial DNA sequences"

https://springerlink...pringerlink.com

alaso check this out:

http://gaia-health.c...-journal-study/

Groundwater Arsenic Poisoning Alleviated with Homeopathy: Journal Study

Edited by vual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Vual, Homeopathy is a huge field and there are things that work and others that are crap. Im in the middle of an homeopathical education and i can tell you one thing: The stuff with the diluted chemicals inside the nice little mini-pearls is pure crap to fill the pockets of the people who do it with some money. The few positive results people have are directly related to a placebo reaction of the human psyche. Dosage makes the poison. Too small of a dose = No result. Period.

BUT there is a whole lot of things from the Homeopathic field that definately work. I believe in Phytotherapy, TCM, Accupuncture and everything that has to do with it.

I respect when people believe in some certain aspects of homepathy that i think are bullshit and i wont join a discussion about that because people have to decide for themselves what they believe in or not but personally, i have not the slightest doubt its nothing but rip-off. Phytotherapy on the other hand is the shit.

Edited by Evil Genius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing,

Do you mean that you belive in some forms of natural health care but not homeopathy?

for the only thing Accupuncture and Phytotherapy has to do with homeopathy is that a natropath will refer both :P

you did say you study homeopathy and then say you dont beleive? Do you mean ou study "Natural health"?

I to must say i think homeopathy is BS simply because there is no hard evidence apart form some clincal trials maybe this new quantum understanding will change things :(

I am also studying Phytotherapy at university degree level :) we can have some great chats in the future.

Edited by vual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i do believe in ertain homepathic treatments but nothing that has to do with diluted essences. I assume i should have used a diffrent term but im at a school that teaches everything in once education, including the bs so i didnt really take great care about the wording. Its part of the german Exam that you have to take to be cleared for practice so im learning but have no intentions to practice anything of the Globuli stuff later on. Not sure what the english word for what im doing is but i assume it should be Natropath.

Homeopathy isnt a protected job in germany so you can pretty much learn what you want as long as you pass the exams. It has a practical and a theoretical part to make sure you are not a danger for others. But apart from that, the job is probably not as defined as in your case. There are diffrent courses about diffrent aspects of what we are allowed to do (like Phytotherapy or Accupuncture for example) and thats it. They even teach Animal-Homeopathy on the school im at. lol. I met some of them few years before when i was having a stud and most of them are nothing but ripoffs.

Edited by Evil Genius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya sounds like you are studying to be a Natropath (ND , natropathic doctor) :)

I agree with you at this point, i hope my mind can be changed :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
how does this really work scientificaly

It doesn't.. there is no scientific evidence to support the efficacy of homeopathy above that of placebo.

Also, "placebo" doesn't mean it doesn't necessarily have an effect, just that there is no medical reason for it to do so.

The placebo effect can be very real, and ranges from the patient feeling subjectively better to actual medical improvement. There is no way for a patient to judge whether it is placebo or not.

But the effect isn't the result of the placebo (for instance the water used in homeopathy), but of what the patient thinks about the placebo.. a lot of people, if they believe something will or might have an effect, will experience some kind of effect.

This is why placebo is considered unethical in medicine, as it essentially involves a kind of deception (although it happens, for instance some doctors will prescribe an antibiotic for a virus, just to make the patient go away—knowing full well that antibiotics have no medical effect on viruses, but many patients will feel better after taking a pill from the doctor).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well since you asked...

There is no scientific basic for homeopathy from the perspective of either chemistry or physics. The dilutions can be so extreme that, well I'm sure you've read this one:

"A popular homeopathic treatment for the flu is a 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum. As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10^320 more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."

That is however, an extreme look at things and more common homeopathic solutions may actually have molecules other than solvent.

However, plenty of people believe in plants spirits, or religion, neither of which have any basic in science but that still (apparantly) enrich their lives.

I don't buy into the whole homeopathic thing but that doesn't change the fact that a whole lot of people find it very helpful, even life changing perhaps.

So if it works for you then that's great, but it's not because of chemistry or physics.

 

How awesome to see a science based response to homeopathy that doesn't resort to ad hominem attacks and ridicule. Well done, Alice!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are many articles on pubmed concluding its more then a placebo but you must wade threw the ones cocluding its not more then a placebo first. I'm rather disapointed people resonded without resarching the mentioned quantum mechenic idea and nano crystaloids....

For a fact you can do a major in homeopathy at university level once you have a health degree.... So dosnt that mean that essentialy homeopathy is a science also 0_o... maybe its to early still to debate, a quick google search shows that randi has turned down many attempts to take his million including turning down some after signing agreement.

interesting kinda:

"Dielectric Strength Testing of Homeopathic Dilutions of HgCl2 (Mercuric Chloride) by Albert Brucato M.Sc. and James Stephenson, MD"

Thanks for your input guys ^_^

I am still on the fence for no new information has been brought to my attention with this topic :(

Still who knows.......

Obviously we dont, will be interesting to look back in 50 years and see how long we have come once quantum mechenics can evolve a bit :(

Edited by vual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are many articles on pubmed concluding its more then a placebo but you must wade threw the ones cocluding its not more then a placebo first.

 

Could you please link to these studies?

I'm rather disapointed people resonded without resarching the mentioned quantum mechenic idea and nano crystaloids....

 

Again, perhaps if you linked to some scientific studies of this with relation to homeopathy? Whenever alt med or new age can't explain something scientifically, they often resort to "quantum" mechanics, so I assumed it was more of the same.

For a fact you can do a major in homeopathy at university level once you have a health degree.... So dosnt that mean that essentialy homeopathy is a science also 0_o...

 

Just because a University teaches something doesn't mean it is scientifically sound, that decision is made on the basis of evidence. But I understand your confusion about universities offering such courses.. I had read that it was happening in the UK but didn't realize it was going on over here as well.

The short answer as to why they are offering it is money: universities are commercial ventures and alt med is a popular and lucrative field.

I have read a good book about this issue in the UK, but can't remember the name offhand, will post it here if I remember.

"Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine" —Tim Minchin :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Homeopathic vs Conventional Treatment of Vertigo A Randomized Double-blind Controlled Clinical Study" Arch Otolaryngol Head Neck Surg. 1998;124:879-885 (AMA journal)

you can google pubmed + homopathic yourself though.... hense why i didnt bother.

also take a look at this , you may find it interesting:

http://hpathy.com/ed...s-for-skeptics/

Your quote at the end of your post is misleading it would make one think traditional chinese medicine dosnt work 0_o.... it only got 5000 years of history.......but its considered "compilmetry / alternative".

Bill Gray, MD: The Structure of Water, from Homeopathy, Myth or Science?

http://books.google.com/books?id=6lXbygsxTNcC&lpg=PA63&ots=BvooEfiBSC...

Montaignier: Electromagnetic Signals Are Produced by Aqueous Nanostructures Derived from Bacterial DNA Sequences

http://www.springerl...6x/fulltext.pdf

Elia: The Memory of Water: an almost deciphered enigma. Dissipative structures in extremely dilute aqueous solutions. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WXX-4P9YJKB-6&...

http://www.citeulike...article/5840758

The Structure Of Liquid Water; Novel Insights From Materials Research; Potential Relevance To Homeopathy

Rustum Roy, W.A. Tiller, Iris Bell, M. R. Hoover

Materials Research Innovations 9:4, 577-608, (2005)

http://hpathy.com/re...re-of-Water.pdf

1994 Ultra High Dilutions Physiology and Physics

P.C. Endler and J. Schulte

Presenting data on ultra high dilution (UHD) from physiological laboratories, this study evaluates physical theories, examines biochemical aspects, appraises the medical and historical context of current research and looks at future research prospects.

SMALL WATER CLUSTERS (CLATHRATES) IN THE PREPARATION PROCESS OF HOMEOPATHY

G.S. Anagnostatos

http://books.google.com/books?id=XA4y1jdRxVsC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&...

1998 High dilution effects on cells and integrated systems

By P. Marotta, C. Taddei-Ferretti, Istituto italiano per gli studi filosofici

On the Structure of High Dilutions According to the Clathrate Model

G.S. Anagnostatos, Institute of Nuclear Physics, National Center for Scientific Research, Demokritos Aghia, Paraskevi, Attiki, Greece

http://books.google.com/books?id=2Iu5Xp9OxbIC&pg=PA305&lpg=PA305&...

im on the fence, honestly i think its all horse shit, but i dont like when people blindly say theres no scientific proof for it just because james "the amazing" randi told them that or they heard it somewhere, i did mention in my OP i know avagardos number and i know homeopathy has nothing to do with chemistry....if there was no proof for it why would higher education board australia reconise it as a important subject and offer goverment fee help and goverment scholoships to study it?

i spose what you are saying is its lucritive for them to but i just cant get my head around that :(

For a uni to teach it they need to have a evidence based approach i assumed.....??

cool stat: homeopathy is the 2nd largest used system of medicine in the world.

Edited by vual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just my point of view follows:

I worked as a herbalist for a number of years, managing a dispensary in Sydney.

We had a homeopath working for us, & I tried some of the remedies & for me & they just didnt cut it.

Hours of researching like treats like etc etc.

To cut a long story short there werent many return clients/patients.

We had this black box ( cant remember its name at the mo) that you put a card into, then set a dial to the potency of the remedy that you were wanting to use & viola

you had a "homopathetic" remedy that was supposedly "proven". The receiving remedy was made from french brandy & water.

Cant say I ever saw good results with this...

The cost for this remedy was about 5 mins of time, & $1 worth of brandy, water, a bottle & a dropper. Sold for at least $10 upwards. easy money.that didnt do much

We also made flower essences, bush flower essences & again honestly the result was the same. These essences were made properly by diluting flowers in bowls of water, at the right moon time blah blah.

I honestly think the brandy in minute doses was what people needed.Alcohol may be more potent than we realise...

You could kind of sum up the type of client that was into these remedies. I hate to stereotype so such leave that well alone....

Although on the other hand Kiniesiology, which I also studied & I cant explain but this one seemed to work....for me any way.

My thoughts are Herbs, Vitamins, Lifestyle, Attitude, Acupuncture etc all do work.

Homeopathy after being in the industry for a number of years just doesnt cut it.

Spend your money on something else....

Evidence based practice, now I support that idea, so that seems why homeopathy is & will be the first "alternative/complementary " medicine to go from being taught in unis etc, which isnt that far off....

I have a bach of Health sciences in Herbal medicine, professional cert in Iridolgy, some pieces of paper in Kiniesiology, Bachelor of health sciences in Complementary medicine, studied cert 3 in massage,

& a few other bits n pieces.(bush flower essences etc). I have had my degree for a while now

Cant explain 'Homopatheticy' & wouldnt bother....

The worlds full of charletons...

Just my 2 cents

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the conventional method of visualising atomic structure and the relationship between molecules and the relative forms their energy takes are insufficient for use in describing the mechanism by which homoeopathy works.

closer to string theory though even that is slightly to limited.

atoms must be viewed more as non planar tauroids to properly grasp the way in which energy can flow from one energy packet into another... the qualities and quanitities fall within ranges which produce categories which we know as atoms and molecules... these can be split into still more discreet bundles of tauroidal spirals... depending on several factors which are only visible to a mind trained in advanced visualisation techiniques which would generally breach te ordinary perception of the material universe these atoms and their sub-atomic composites can also manifest various qualities and characteristics.

at the level on which homoeopathy works the changes in the qualitis of the substances are so subtle and fine that they are not able to be detected by material instruments, theough they can be detected bvy the visualisation centre of the mind... that specific centre is only the surface of a far more complex interactive system that literally manifests the most subtle forces.

imagine for example...

a 100m by 100m pool of water with plug holes spaced at 5m intervals... imagine then that the pool is full of clear water...

now if all the plug stoppers are removed simultaneously and blue dye is added to the water at perfectly centred positions between the plug holes... the blue dye will spread in spirals of various sizes and be sucked into the holes and will eventually change all the water to a blue colour.

if you drink the water that comes out the plug holes it will be blue, even though it was not directly dropped into them.

now imagine if this same system was set up on a multidimensional platform that was not drawing due to gravity as we know it, but was drawing due to the force of existence... and small amounts of "dye" were added...

the subtle sprialling force of the atoms would draw energy from each other and be permanently changed... this then would carry on into the subtle force of the body and it would react accordingly...

the problem really lies in conventional understanding of systems of energy... they are to superficial and somewhat outdated.

4464-940x626.jpg

most workaday minds do not use the full expanded visualisation power of their minds and so it is easier for people to imagine spheres and add on electrons to imagine how mattter is formed...

but really it look more like this

4332275542_129bf7ed0f_o.jpg

the rememdy may only last for a certain amount fo time before the dilution will dissipate... it is also possible to callibrate the base matter to a standard to fully express the qualities of the particular remedy.

does that even make sense?

i should say "if you dont understand its because you cant imagine good enough" aha...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly think the brandy in minute doses was what people needed.Alcohol may be more potent than we realise...

 

Interesting theory, alcohol is not a "essential" mineral/vitamin, but it does give the body energy in the form of calories.

You theory is maybe they need that "energy" becuse maybe there food gives to much vitamins and not enough calorie, makes sense i spose.

My thoughts are Herbs, Vitamins, Lifestyle, Attitude, Acupuncture etc all do work.

Homeopathy after being in the industry for a number of years just doesnt cut it.

 

Interesting you stuck acupuncture in there but not homeopathy, Also my understanding was homeopathy has been used in medicine for 200 years, not as long as TCM and Acupuncture i will admit that being 2500 - 5000.

Evidence based practice, now I support that idea, so that seems why homeopathy is & will be the first "alternative/complementary " medicine to go from being taught in unis etc, which isnt that far off....

 

Funny comment, I'd like to point out that almost 50% of conventional medicine has no evidence whatsoerver according to the BMJ

http://clinicalevide...t/knowledge.jsp

so that means 50% of concentional medicine is alternative 0_o WHAT THE!!!! go tell randi that!!

here is a number of high quality research papers into the mechanism of action of homeopathic medicine.

http://www.homeoinst...search-projects

nobel prize winner Luc Montagnier takes it seriouse....

http://www.huffingto...y_b_814619.html

550 million users of homeopathy worlds wide have reported that it works for them... they are big ods...

did you know it was only 3 years ago that we discovered how panadol(Paracetamol) works?? does that mean panadol was a placebo up to 3 years ago :P :P hehe (no shit)

There are 160 clinical trials published in the highest peer review journals like the Lancet, Journal of Complementary Medicine, British Medical Journal or Pediatrics.

hehe sorry for baiting and traping you ><

it wasnt on purpose, and i respect your opinons.

************

 

That is a very very interesting concept, its true that even today in chemistry at university level we are taught wrong things that have been rediscoverd/disprooven, IE: we dont learn the quantum atomic moddle.... IE: my chem lecture's says atomic particles like electrons and protons are the smallest thing known to man.... he dosnt like it when i mention neutrinos or quantum foam.

remember you can never proove a hypothasis only disprove one....

There will always be dinasaurs in science most the time its becuase they are to lazy to re-do there education.

very very interesting analogy with the blue dye and water, thanks kindly for sharing, you may find some of the papers i posted of interest also.

Can you please explain to me what you mean by " the visulization power of the mind" ? How can one train this? Do you mean simply using your imagination or acutally remote viewing into the molocule of some kind 0_o??

Thanks again to eveyone who shared there 2 cents ^_^

-v

Edited by vual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going to have to get back to you vual on a couple of things ,Interesting topic & it's made me think...

I know what your saying about evidence based practice & current medicinal beliefs & proving current medicines.

Even 5000 yrs doesn't cut it these days....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Homeopathy is interesting. It does seem to be very effective - I used it once, many years ago, and it worked on long term depression and anxiety when nothing else did. Whether that was due to the homeopathic practitioner also appearing to give a shit - an hours therapy, rather than 2 minutes in a doctors surgery, quick script and you're out - is also debatable. But they tell me that it also works on dogs and other animals, which are not prone to any placebo effect. I know a surprising number of people who believe that homeopathy works, including several nurses. And it works on children, too young to know what they are ingesting.

Science is our way of understanding an observable phenomena. For scientists to state that homeopathy doesn't work - because they don't understand how it works - this is sheer nonsense. You have to prove it doesn't work, not say you don't understand how it works.

To me, it is yet one more big pharma crime trying to control the market, and doctors and scientists are unknowingly complicit in their misunderstanding of how science should work - as a way of understanding, not as dogma.

Saying that, there is clearly bullshit around - remedies sold as homeopathy that are more akin to herbalism but with tiny doses instead of quantum imprints, and people who decry it without even knowing the principles. Not enough knowledge, essentially. Remember, those who despise homeopathy also despise herbalism, and frequently don't know the difference, or are in the pockets of the medical industry, where science is only used for profit making purposes.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big pharma are the ones who will sell you bird flu vaccinations that don't work when being healthy and taking lots of B vitamins will?

And whats a vaccine but a tiny dose of de-aminated virus to trigger an immunity response? Isn't that basically how homeopathy works? A tiny amount / quantum pattern of the active principle designed to trigger an immunity response?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just my point of view follows: I worked as a herbalist for a number of years, managing a dispensary in Sydney. We had a homeopath working for us, & I tried some of the remedies & for me & they just didnt cut it. Hours of researching like treats like etc etc. To cut a long story short there werent many return clients/patients.

Modern day doctoring is based on treating symptoms, not the underlying disease. Therefore, you would expect a lot of repeat customers, which in turn is good for business.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And whats a vaccine but a tiny dose of de-aminated virus to trigger an immunity response? Isn't that basically how homeopathy works? A tiny amount / quantum pattern of the active principle designed to trigger an immunity response?

 

That doesn't make sense though. Firstly, a vaccine triggers an immune response to a virus you have not been exposed to yet. There is no point in having a vaccine for a contagion that you've already contracted. Homeopathy is intended to actually cure problems that you're already suffering from. Also, is this how homeopathy supposedly works? If I want to prevent insomnia, do I have a tiny, tiny, amount of amphetamines, at which point my immune system will build antibodies that fight sleeplessness in my body, and then next time a little bit of sleeplessness sets in, my body is ready to attack it, helping me sleep? It doesn't seem very logical.

Thirdly, when you have a vaccine, there are actually particles of the virus in the vaccine. A homeopathic remedy usually has no particles of the substance in the water. Fourthly, not all vaccines work this way, and this is because you can't necessarily just expect one way of treating or preventing illness to work for every single illness you come across.

Vual, you are after a physical explanation for something for which there is no evidence and which lacks any known scientific evidence. You are not going to find any meaningful explanations from anyone who is trained in physics or chemistry. It's pretty easy to just add words like 'quantum' to vague statements about how something 'works' and make it sound mysterious and scientific, but that's not how physics works. Physics is an extremely precise science, and if you want an explanation of a phenomenon to be accepted in the scientific community, you need to be precise about its statement. This involves a rigorous mathematical framework on which to base your theory.

For example, you can ask me why a diffraction pattern looks the way it does, and I can tell you that the far-field diffraction pattern is the convolution of the aperture function with the wavefunction of the beam. If your beam is a plane wave, then the diffraction pattern is simply the Fourier transform of the aperture function. The most common example of this is when the aperture is simply a slit, then the aperture function is a top-hat function, and the far-field wavefunction is its Fourier transform: a sinc function. You can use this mathematics to precisely calculate where the maxima will be in a diffraction pattern if you know the wavelength of the light and the width of the aperture. This is very, very precise. You can mark off the points on a wall before you turn the laser on, and the positions you mark will be exactly where the light falls.

My point is, that waffling on about vague quasi-spiritual, pseudo-scientific notions, borrowing terms from physics, is not physics. And there simply is no theoretical basis, quantum or otherwise, for the efficacy of homeopathic treatments. Now, this would all be moot if there was a body of evidence in support of homeopathy, but there isn't. People make the mistake of thinking that because they can find a few papers where this or that was found, that this is proof. That's not how science works. There is a lot of bunk that is actually published, because human beings are fallible. It is the consensus of the community who actually understand the research being done which decides whether there is enough evidence for something. I don't even think the medical community sits on the fence about this one.

I wonder where WoodDragon is. His input would be invaluable in this thread.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×