[Mr B.caapi]

Court bans crucifixes in Italian schools






The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that crucifixes should be removed from Italian classrooms, prompting Vatican anger and sparking uproar in Italy, where such icons are embedded in the national psyche.

"The ruling of the European court was received in the Vatican with shock and sadness," said Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi, adding that it was "wrong and myopic" to try to exclude a symbol of charity from education.

The ruling by the court in Strasbourg, which Italy said it would appeal, said crucifixes on school walls - a common sight that is part of every Italian's life - could disturb children who were not Christians.

Italy has been in the throes of national debate on how to deal with a growing population of immigrants, mostly Muslims, and the court sentence is likely to become another battle cry for the centre-right government's policy to restrict newcomers.

"This is an abhorrent ruling," said Rocco Buttiglione, a former culture minister who helped write papal encyclicals.

"It must be rejected with firmness. Italy has its culture, its traditions and its history. Those who come among us must understand and accept this culture and this history."

The Vatican spokesman said it was sad the crucifix could be considered a symbol of division and said religion offered a vital contribution to the moral formation of people.

Members of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government bristled, weighing in with words such as "shameful", "offensive", "absurd," "unacceptable," and "pagan".

Mortal blow

Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said the court had dealt a "mortal blow to a Europe of values and rights," adding that it was a bad precedent for other countries.

Condemnation crossed party lines. Paola Binetti, a Catholic in the opposition Democratic Party, the successor of what was once the West's largest communist party, said: "In Italy, the crucifix is a specific sign of our tradition."

The case was brought by an Italian national, Soile Lautsi, who complained that her children had to attend a public school in northern Italy which had crucifixes in every room.

Education Minister Mariastella Gelmini said crucifixes on the walls of tens of thousands of classrooms "do not mean adherence to Catholicism" but are a symbol of Italy's heritage.

"The history of Italy is marked by symbols and if we erase symbols we erase part of ourselves," Ms Gelmini said.

Ms Lautsi, the woman who filed the suit, said crucifixes on walls ran counter to her right to give her children a secular education and the Strasbourg-based court ruled in her favour.

"The presence of the crucifix ... could be encouraging for religious pupils, but also disturbing for pupils who practised other religions or were atheists, particularly if they belonged to religious minorities," the court said in a written ruling.

"The State (must) refrain from imposing beliefs in premises where individuals were dependent on it," it added, saying the aim of public education was "to foster critical thinking".

- Reuters

[ThunderIdeal]

only read the headline. excellent change IMO.

edit: read the article. excellent change IMO. heritage schmeritage, it's a fookin religious symbol and it will sit there like an advertisement in every class room, working it's way into young minds just like it was put there to do in the first place.

This post has been edited by ThunderIdeal: 21 November 2009 - 05:10 PM

[The Dude]

^^^ Hence the outrage. What!?! Critical thinking? education is about indoctrination we all know that!

[mac]

I was a bit pissed off when my 9yo daughter mentioned her teacher was teaching them about religions & asked the class what religion their family was

When my daughter explained that she had no religious belief & had not been christened or baptized the bitch of a teacher commented that her mother & i should be ashamed of ourself

I wasn't happy & wanted to give the teacher a piece of my mind & a mouth full of abuse but the X wouldn't have me causing trouble, so i told my daughter to tell her teacher to get stuffed if she commented again

Fucking Christians trying to brainwash kids in our public schools should be slapped & if they turn the other cheek slap that side as well IMO

This post has been edited by mac: 08 December 2009 - 11:41 PM

[ThunderIdeal]

it's a new year. your daughter has a new teacher.

make a complaint to the school. what you described is not on. teachers shouldn't even be teaching religion let alone making comments like that.

and if you see that waste of oxygen let her fucking have it.

[mac]

I never thought of that
Ill find out if the teacher is still there & what classes/year she is teaching

[Yawning Man]

F@#k Oath thunder. Mac, you should at least have a talk with the teacher, dont explode in her face. That wont help you or your daughter. But letting the teacher and school hear your opinion is worth it. If i was in your situation i'd be angry as hell and i think your feelings are more than justified.

cheers

[mac]

Im not against what she was teaching as it was not focussed on one religion they were learning about many different religions Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism etc etc..

Its the fact that IMO she was supposed to be teaching about Religious freedom i guess & helping kids understand some of the differences in beliefs & cultures, but didn't hesitate putting her own opinion on our beliefs & judging us to be bad parents simply because the kids have not been baptised or christened.

Im sure this is the reason we see public schools outright ban teaching these sort of classes & will only see catholic, Islamic & other single minded private schools teaching their interpretation of what they want their students to believe.


My kids can decide for themselves what they chose to believe when they are old enough to decide.