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niggles

Please help me with advice for moving north

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Hi folks,

After many years of saving Im almost ready to make a move up to northern nsw.
I have been wanting to get out of the melbourne and live on some land where it is warm for a long time now, (the warmth and humidity helps with my physical ailments, plus I really dont like the cold) so I am very excited.
I am looking forward to trying to achieve something like self sufficiency, well... something along those lines.. I would like to not have to pay rent or mortgage and not feel locked into a typical job situation every day for my survival.. so planning to grow as much of my own food as possible and perhaps keeping a few animals, try and keep myself busy doing the things I want to do when i want to do them.
I am also wanting to support the natural environment as much as possible and put more time into caring for injured and orphaned wildlife.
I have seen a few possible properties that I have my eyes on, mainly for private sale, freehold lease, but one MO.
However I have never bought property before, or had anything to do with buying property.
So I am putting this out there for advice and suggestions.
Are there any scams/legal issues/complications, anything I should be aware of when buying through private sale? Or issues with MO land?
Being from Victoria I am not hugely familiar with the NNSW/northern rivers area, I have travelled there, love the feel and the weather and all the delicious things I could grow there.. anyone who is familiar with the area have any advice for me when looking at land? Things I should look out for, potential problems I may encounter?
I am of course trying to do my own research on these things but it would be good to get some other peoples ideas.
This will be a really big move and change of lifestyle for me, I'm trying to step away from a lifetime of full time city based working and spend more time being present in nature working with plants like my body and mind have been telling me i need to for my whole life... so I wouldnt want to fuck it up by doing something silly like buying somewhere that is underwater for half of the year!
Any help or conversation on the topic is welcomed.
I am trying not to create a plan in my mind that is rigid in any sense so I dont end up disappointed or working towards something that is not realistic.
At the moment I sort of envisage quitting my job and driving up north in my 4x4 with a rooftop tent, inspecting properties and looking around the area til i find what I want, buy it, then go back to vic and get the trailer with all my stuff and favorite plants and bring it all back up. Something like that. Maybe involving a yurt to start the property accommodation.
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Respect. Sounds to me like a very sensible thing to do. Will pm you soon

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Hey Niggles, wishing you all the best for your plans! Take the time to look around in order to find the right property. Make sure to check if it´s an area where there are floods or regular fires. Torsten once told me that Eucalyptus tree populations can start burning easily, so it might be a good idea to stay away from them. But I am really not an expert on Australian real estate, so cant say anything smart. Maybe have a look at land that´s auctioned off or foreclosed, so you can make a good deal. Maybe you can get it cheaper if you agree to knock over and old house/cabin or stuff like this.

Good Luck! :) bye EG

Edited by Evil Genius
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awesome idea, i wish you all the best man, enjoy......... and most of all find your dream place.

points of concern if purchasing a property.

if their is a dwelling on the property ensure it has a full compliant and up to date white ant, dry rot certificate - some states it is the purchases responsibility to commission this.

ensure you commission a full and through property inspection with a licensed building inspector.

in some states you can be a lisenced building inspector in 2 days, lolish, fukn fools.

so whoever you do commission to perform this report ensure they are not in cahoots with the real-estate agent, and also have the experience and years in the industry to back up their claims.

do check internet review sites for dodgy service providers before commissioning a service provider.

also ensure you provide a full scope of works and request a full quote in writing before engaging in the inspectors reporting.

with this impartial and independently commissioned document you can then approach the vendor through the real estate or not if it is a private sale. stating your case while you should offer (vastly) less that what they are asking for the property.

every property is artificially inflated.

very important to ensure the licensed building inspector is a licensed electrician and has extensive plumbing knowledge and structural experience when it comes to assessing dwellings., including roofing .

all this shit will cost you 5-10k if done through the appropriate licensees.

this money is very well spent when you consider the costs of rewiring a house, re-doing the plumbing, re stumping, sinking a new leach drain etc.......

you can do all this yourself if you have the knowledge but it will mean jack shit to the vendor, real estate and in court, unless you a licensed building inspector

also in most states the purchaser of a dwelling is given 3 months grace to claim against the vendor incase of failure of basic amenities in the property, failed electrics, trees falling on out buildings etc...stove not working, light switches breaking etc,,,,, this is all the vendors responsibility to fix within 7 days of notification.

vendors and real estate agents are well aware of this fact and it is the real estates responsibility to ensure the vendor complies with their commitments.

if purchasing a rural property it is also the vendors responsibility to ensure all fencing is operable and gates are latched.

pumps are working, all reticulation is in good working order, water tanks are functional and full.

their are some wonderful properties that sit on the internet for a few years (overpriced) as they don't suit the average persons needs, too steep, not big enough to run cows on. little bit ugly, weird spots, south facing hillsides.

WE did a similar thing a few years ago, kept an eye on a place on the net for 2 years as it slowly dropped 200k during the property recession.

we were from dry ass WA so we headed for the cold and the wet :)

all the best man, hope you find what your looking for :)

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Hey olive and incog, thanks for the input!

At this point I have been mainly looking at land without any dwelling on it.. (that part of the journey will probably come later)

But Im not ruling out any possibilities!

I have been keeping an eye out for covenant properties, as I would really like most of the land I dwell on to be pristine bushland that I try and nurture.

Foreclosure auctions is a good idea, I wonder what I can find along those lines...!

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we bought a place that is 30 years old, nice cedar place, mid 80's kit home. its on 33 acres.

we were looking at spending multiple 100's of k's to rebuild on this property because of the location and the inflated prices that tradespeople and builders charge.

so we thought fuck it and renovated the existing place for under 100k, she's a palace now, s fucking palace.

The land it is on is a valley, 45 degree hills either side of a creek that runs for 5 months of the year. our little bit of paradise

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Good on you for chasing the dream Niggles. All I think I can add is that I once read a book that seemed to offer good advice on finding rural property called "Country Property Dirt Cheap". Was a quirky little book, a bit old and written for an American audience but I think a lot of the advice was transferable and seemed to offer a different perspective and approach than I'd have thought of.

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Save your money and don't buy into the Byron shire, it is TOO pricey to my mind. You will buy the land and then have nothing for building and development, I know a few people who have done that.

The tweed shire can be good, still pricey though, and of course, you go further south it is cheaper. The whole area is big. I know some people who are living out west near Kyogle, which is another option. Even Tenterfield is great (but three hours from the coast)

I would advise to think about what kind of social life you want to have out there. This is the main thing that city people have difficulty with. The comparative isolation can really do a lot of people's heads in.

You know what they say, "Go to heaven for the climate, and hell for the company!"

If you have friends up that way, great. But it can be hard for some to make friends, as you are a blow in, and they say it takes ten years to become a local up there. I stayed 11 around the northern rivers and noticed a shift exactly at ten years. But still, I have noticed many people I know struggling up that way.

The issue with towns like Mullumbimby, is that it is a small town with heaps of gossiping, small minded thinking and people who think they are big fish, without any "Northern Exposuresque" charm or innocense of actual real characters, and not just human stereotypes. (which you will more likely find in small and more remote towns)

You also want to consider the soil of your property before buying it, and getting it tested.

I would personally do a lot of driving around the north coast (it is a huge area), see what towns you like, and see where you like the people and the land.

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Test soil & water (I think DPI do this?) &/or check with local Landcare, Streamwatch, etc groups regarding any issues. Landcare types will usually be able to tell you a bit about the local soil types & plantlife, including obnoxious weeds & pests that you might be up against. The Bureau of Meteorology keeps records you can consult to get an idea about what weather to expect.

If buying vacant land, check with the council that it has a permanent dwelling entitlement. Heaps of properties look like bargains until you read the fine print & realise that you're not actually allowed to build there. Depending what your plans are for the land, the zoning may be important too - so ask about that as well (i.e. not just whether it is zoned rural/residential or whatever, but the actual code (Zone 4b or something) that will let you look up in the official council documents exactly what is & isn't allowed. The more isolated you get, the less they tend to care about this stuff, but there are always exceptions to this so it's worth checking out - even if just to get a vibe about what type of council you'll have if you move there.

Take access into account when looking at the land prices - if you're going to have to spend $50K to build an all-weather road into the place, is it still a good price?

Talk to your prospective neighbours. Sometimes they can give you additional info about the property that the real estate agent can't/won't, and helpful advice about living in the area (eg. what kind of vehicle you'll need for the roads, how often you can expect to be flooded in, what will & won't grow there, etc). If nothing else, they might just give you an idea about whether you're likely to get along with your neighbours - which, if you're heading somewhere isolated, can be kinda important.

If you're looking at a private sale, research everything you can about the place with the local council records, and hire a lawyer/conveyancer to handle the transaction - it might cost $1000, but they'll check whether everything is above board, and even look into planned nearby developments or the like. So if the copy of the dwelling entitlement that the seller showed you was revoked in 1988 when the property was subdivided, or if they don't in fact own the land they're trying to sell, or if there's an airport slated to be built nextdoor, the convenyancer will catch this kind of thing for you.

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Take access into account when looking at the land prices - if you're going to have to spend $50K to build an all-weather road into the place, is it still a good price?

This one's a biggie- at times of heavy rainfall you don't want to be crossing swollen creeks you don't know well, and then climbing a kay up a hill on a driveway with the texture of marzipan icing and ruts deeper than your ground clearance for your bike/ car. There are heaps of lovely places out here but a lot have poor access which gets worse during wet season

Anything you save on your property you will spend on your car over the next 25 years. The roads are shit. May as well know that now.

Fencing, water and fire protection are your next priorities after access and housing. Set those up before you get romantic and spend dosh on gardens and gables

If you look at a bush block, talk to the local RFS if it's not peak fire season, they'll help you assess fire risks and make a plan

Test soil & water (I think DPI do this?) &/or check with local Landcare, Streamwatch, etc groups regarding any issues. Landcare types will usually be able to tell you a bit about the local soil types & plantlife, including obnoxious weeds & pests that you might be up against. The Bureau of Meteorology keeps records you can consult to get an idea about what weather to expect.

EAL at Southern Cross Uni do soil and water tests for a good price

Don't be married to the idea of Byron Shire, as folias says. There are lots of wonderful places everywhere north of Coffs and many are way more reasonably priced than Byron/ Tweed shires. Kyogle even has decent coffee these days. All Byron has is traffic.

Crazy neighbours are a biggie up here ( tho not as bad as it used to be ) and for various definitions of crazy. If you're not buying onto an MO, try not to buy right next to a large one, because more neighbours = higher risk of more crazy

If you're worried about isolation, once you get to the area simply join something. Local school or hall association, Landcare, fire brigade, market group, garden club, pony club, anything. You'll meet heaps of people really fast. They will find ways for you to contribute. Oh yes they will. There's lots to do.

Nobody west of Bangalow really cares what you did before you moved here, it's the contribution you make once you land that's important. That frustrates a lot of people who expect to be taken seriously for something hifalutin' they used to do in the city, but it does level the playing field for people who didn't have those opportunities but do make a significant contribution and have better life and social skills.

Most of the people you will meet in the first 2 years will not be the people you will end up relating to best, so be cautious about going overboard with your early friendships. Getting to know the locals takes time. After a bit you will become one of the locals and that will make more sense than it does now

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Thanks everyone for your replies!

Im certainly not looking at byron, well I would if it came up in the right price range, but that's the same with anywhere.

I am certainly flexible with where I want to be. The main thing for me is warmth/humidity. I would like not to have frost, and humidity helps me with my aches and pains.

I am rather torn though, because I would really like to have wombats in my life, but they only seem to populate in colder areas - Wombat protection society says closest to the northern rivers area with wombats isTenterfield, and Tenterfield gets cold... (according to bom.gov.au)

So Im looking at land from coffs up to queensland border... maybe even a little over.

Just a little more saving to do.. (isn't it always the way?)

Soil testing - definitely on the cards.

Im hoping to build my own living structure eventually.

Id really like to do recycled materials, or cob, or somethign with minimal impact that would complement wherever I end up (and keep cost relatively low)

Anyone have any experience with this? Particularly the council/permits side of things?

(I know a few talented builders who should be able to help me with construction)

Thanks again for the advice

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I am certainly flexible with where I want to be. The main thing for me is warmth/humidity. I would like not to have frost, and humidity helps me with my aches and pains.

Parts of the areas round the back of Nimbin get Melbourne-grade cold over winter, just not for as many of the daylight hours. The higher up your place is, the less cold it will be IME. But then there can be access issues, especially in the wet.

One more thought about moving- if you aren't skilled at driving on our shithouse roads, you and your partner both do an off-road driving course before you get here and make sure you have appropriate vehicles. It'll make you more confident. The city hatchback doesn't cut it. We have potholes here deeper than those things are tall.

A lot of our roads are barely wide enough for 2 cars and in some cases both cars need to have the left hand wheels off the tar to pass safely. Too many people are reluctant to do this and a lot of them are newcomers. We have a lot of passive aggressive/ inattentive drivers up here and they are fucken shitheads who are a danger to life and limb.

If you can't keep pace and find you are driving 20-50km below the speed limit with cars behind you, indicate and pull off the road, there are heaps of safe places to do this if you don't mind not having wheels on the tarmac. No-one minds if you do this and you will earn respect while you learn to handle the horrible bloody roads

Nothing spoils a good new neighbourhood friendship like finding out they're the people who have been clogging up the middle of the road at 50k/hr in a hundred zone for 10km. These people are rapidly identified and word gets around

Edited by Darklight
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Thanks darklight, both hilarious and useful.

I do plan to do a 4x4 course shortly, and have bought and started kitting out a 4x4 hilux in preparation for the move.

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Hey Niggles - I'm jealous of your plan - I've started looking at properties anywhere north of Port Macquarie. But since I need to be near a Uni to work, I don't see it happening until I can make enough cash off of writing/being opinionated to retire.

The problems of my work-life balance aside, I'd say there is some pretty good advice here.

I grew up on a farm, and we were lucky enough to have a spring that ran even in bad droughts - check the water supply situation.

The other thing to check is the septic system. Is it in working order? Will the local council want you to replace it when the property changes hands? If so, what sort of system do they want you to put in? A top of the line waste system can set you back multiple $10k's, so it's worth checking.

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I'm thinking what is mo?mean.lol

and Darklight's emphasis on roads.

we've driven some wild roads in auzralia, maximum fun. One guy in tas made his own with a bulldozer to his front driveway. On ya Adam(much love bro).

And another time in crystal cascades in fnq was made because the house we were staying in was really super sweet but in the middle of a bbq, this guy ran into the yard screaming"have you seen my pigdogs"? he was chasing wild boar through the the scrub you see.

We were transfixed

lol, the roads comment

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Im hoping to build my own living structure eventually.

Id really like to do recycled materials, or cob, or somethign with minimal impact that would complement wherever I end up (and keep cost relatively low)

Anyone have any experience with this? Particularly the council/permits side of things?

(I know a few talented builders who should be able to help me with construction)

I don't have any experience, just been researching all this for myself. It looked like the most important thing was which council area you're in - some couldn't give two fucks what you live in or where, while some others are so anal they won't even let you prune your own trees. Most are somewhere in between - it seems like having an official design drawn up by a draftsman/architect/designer makes everything go smoother - councils like having pieces of paper which show the tolerances of the materials and so forth, to prove that these "alternative" building materials are strong enough to build a house from. It seemed like often they weren't actually unfriendly about alternative building, it's just something they mightn't have a lot of experience with - so if you can walk in with some official-looking plans which assuage their doubts about the fire-resistance of straw-bale houses (or whatever) it could help move things along.

And don't quote me on this one, but I believe you also need to get someone in to survey the planned building site before the council will let you build on it - they'll check that it's actually a sensible location to build on (eg. that it won't flood or be crushed by falling rocks), and test the soil to make sure your house won't sink into a puddle or slide down the hill in ten years' time.

I was looking into slipform masonry as a simple way to use (free) local materials that even a construction-naive muppet like me could manage, but I don't know that there's enough good rocks where I'll be, so strawbale is top of my list now.

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Off topic but you gotta check this you tube channel out, not that you're gunna go full cave man, but it is inspiring

 

Edited by NegativeDave
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I'm thinking what is mo?mean.lol

MO - Multiple Occupancy - my understanding of this term is it is where the land is shared between multiple people on a single title.

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MO - Multiple Occupancy - my understanding of this term is it is where the land is shared between multiple people on a single title.

thankyou niggles :wub:

this abbreviation is not in my lexicon because i couldn't live with anyone else until i was happy living with myself.....actually the possibility of that might be zero.lol.

totally understand the concept though. driving through toorak this morning at 3am i see this billboard really pushing the sale as a "Magnificent opportunity to own 1 title with 4 subs on the title."

Ofcourse i platzed....spat out the phlegm at the billboard and continued driving

where ever you go baby i'll come to visit.....didn't you know

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Come to QLD mate much warmer here well most places and cheap fertile land to start setting up on. Good on you and all the best for the move. Hope your dreams become a reality

Edited by sharxx101

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