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Thelema

psychoactive salvia: FOUND!

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What a cool xmas present from the gods, after long searching i have finally found another hallucinitory salvia!

In order to allay a false positive, I am searching for people willing to trial both 1X 5X and 10X extracts before I reveal the botanic source. All you need to do is PM me for a sample, which is free.

Unfortunately, if you have participated in a previous trial and not responded to me, you forfeit the right to participate in this one.

If SD is a fat momma in a blue dress, this one is a little girl in a pink dress.

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Hello Thelema,

Hope you had a happy Alban Arthuan (Solstice). All the best for the new year.

I'm interested in taking part if you wish to ship overseas.

Have a good time everyone.

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I presume it has to be smoked? I'd rather not, but will if there is a shortage of reliable guinea pigs.

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I can say that this certainly sounds very interesting...especially since SD is sooooo strong, I can measure the amount of unenhanced leaf in mere milligrams. Salvia Divinorum is a unique substance that, in all honesty, is simply too powerful for me. I feel better for having been there, but I feel that it almost needs to tell you when the right time is. Some of You may laugh, but as I have no experience with traditional hallucinogens, and no real desire to go there myself, the full experience is just not for me. Low doses have taught me much, but a high dose might scare me :P MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE :)

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planthelper:

...most sage's are active,

even officinalis...

What?

Active hallucinogens??

In sub-toxic doses???

Do you have supporting evidence????

Given that Thelema reviewed many to find this one psychoactive one I assume its in a much different class than officinalis or splendens.

 

planthelper:

Salvia Divinorum... is simply too powerful for me... as I have no experience with traditional hallucinogens, and no real desire to go there myself, the full experience is just not for me.

I have lots of experience with traditional hallucinogens and S. divinorum is still pretty heavy on me. It really is totally different than acid or shrooms, if I was only interested in recreation I wouldnt use sally d at all- on the occations when I have used it it was always religious/psychotheraputic. Its still really heavy but I have learned much from it already and I still count myself as a relative beginner. It sure aint for everybody!

Back on topic. Thelema, has the one you found been clinically tested for toxicity or used in folk medicine at all or are you dealing with a total unknown?

[ 26. December 2003, 15:30: Message edited by: Auxin ]

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Somewhere on this site is a paper entitled "The Other Psychoactive Salvias" which I wrote in 1997.

It mentions 24 other Salvia species which contain Neoclerodane diterpinoids--the same class of compounds as Salvinorins A, B and C.

I mention experimenting with 4 different species (S. splendens, S. argentia, S.coccinea and S. superba) and finding them all active but vastly different from S. divinorum. Their effects are more akin to weak MJ.

Since then many people have come forward with other Salvia species with similar pyschoactivity, but none equalling S. divinorum, which I had hoped someone would uncover. There are, after all, over 900 species of Salvia and not very many have been bio-assayed.

I am very happy to hear of another and would be glad to try a sample.

You can send the sample to me at Omchi Herbs, POB 5352, Eugene, Or. 97405 USA.

Please let me know if you need postage or anything to facilitate this.

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here my officinalis report:

many years ago, (i had only little ethno knowledge compared to now) i got up 4.30 a.m. after resting for only 3 hours.

the people i stayed with (an organic farmers couple) heard my early morning smokers cough and decided to brew some salvia officinalis tea for me. i drank two cups of this very strong tea.

my mate had one cup.

after this we started driving off to the markets

because all of us were stallholders.

i guess after 20min or so, i was still driving the car "a very strange sensation" overcame me.

the whole landscape seemed to be shining with a glistering light. everything seemed to be glowing with a translucent, sparkling light.

at this stage i did not think at all that the tea had something to do with this...

i thought i was getting enlighted.

i managed to drive the car pretty allright and arrived safly at the market grounds.

quite suddenly another sensation overcame me:

"something pulling me up into the blue sky".

this pulling sensation lasted only for a short while, but repeated itselfe several times.

another sensation i seem to remember was,

to see everything without colors. i mean everything looked exactly like old photos look alike, different shades of brown and nothing else.

this experience lasted for several hours!!!

funny eh? considering the actives must have been soly absorbed by the stomach.

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S. officinalis often has a high thujone content. Thujone is the chemical compound in Artemisia absinthum that causes many of the effects associated with absinthe.

The peculiar glowing light emanating from everything is a classic Absinthe effect.

People who smoke Artemisia species are looking for the thujone high. I don't see why (except for the taste) one couldn't smoke S. officinalis leaves as well for the same effect.

The oil of S. officinalis may contain as much as 65% thujone.

In the USA, Mexican MJ sold on the east coast back in the 60's and 70's was often cut with crushed A. absinthum foliage.

It made for a different, more 'electric' high than one would get from just plain MJ.

[ 28. December 2003, 01:53: Message edited by: friendly ]

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but thujon cannot be hold responsible for the pulling sensations that i experienced.

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Everything looking like old photos is another effect I've heard ascribed to absinthe.

As far as the 'pulling' sensation goes, I wouldn't rule out the thujone although I have to admit I haven't heard of that effect before.

My presumptive assumption is based your description of the other effects, which are recognized as being produced by absinthe/thujone.

At any rate, if it's that good I'd try it again.

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Thanks for everyone's interest.

Quite a few people forgot to include their address details in their PM's. Please rePM with them!

Auxin, the plant is a lot closer to splendens than "sage" salvia. Also, no, has not been used traditionally, and I doubt it is toxic at all.

Planthelper/friendly, yea, nearly every new world salvia contains ncd's. Madrensis contains at least 9. None of which seem to be psychoactive at active levels up to a 10X. PH, it does not sound like the experience you had was an ncd experience.

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friendly:

S. officinalis often has a high thujone content. Thujone is the chemical compound in Artemisia absinthum that causes many of the effects associated with absinthe.

The peculiar glowing light emanating from everything is a classic Absinthe effect.

People who smoke Artemisia species are looking for the thujone high. I don't see why (except for the taste) one couldn't smoke S. officinalis leaves as well for the same effect.

The oil of S. officinalis may contain as much as 65% thujone.

S. officinalis is just garden sage, right? I have tried both eating and vapourising an alcohol extract (of dried material), and the main effect was a nicotine-style stimulation.

As for Sally D., I had trouble getting too much insight from it (back when it was legal of course)! I seemed to need half a cone of acetone extract to get properly off, but then just got a tumbling or twisting experience without too much in the way of visuals. So it certainly threw a big spanner into the mental works, but not necessarily for the better ...

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From the "Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances, 1978":

"VN30125000: Sage oil, Dalmation. Main constituent is THUJONE found in the leaves of SALVIA OFFICINALIS".

Merck index thirteenth edition, 2001, lists Thujone as being soluable in alcohol but not water.

Thujone content may vary.

Perhaps you used a low-thujone content starting material?

My reference to up to 65% thujone in S. offinicalis oil comes from Jonathan Ott's Pharmacotheon. I will look up the page number when I get home later; the book is not currently in my office.

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hey planthelper, how much leaves of the officinalis was used in the brew?

thanx

aaron

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I seemed to need half a cone of acetone extract to get properly off, but then just got a tumbling or twisting experience without too much in the way of visuals.

That's why many people hate SD.

I know off a gnome who has half a gram of 6x stashed away for almost 3 years now and can't convince himself to use it...

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@psycho0,

i dont know how much garden sage was used in that tea, because i did not prepare it myselfe.

but i think to rember that it was an awefull lot of material that got used.

it was fresh from the garden and i guess 3 medium size plants got harvested back to ground level.

@friendly, do you know how much thujone (and other goodies) are contained in salvia apiana?

[ 01. January 2004, 09:16: Message edited by: planthelper ]

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www.ars-grin.gov/duke will get you to the database. Click on chemicals and activities in a particular plant. Enter Salvia apiana (or any other plant for that matter) and see what you get.

There are other links and parts of the database accessible from that site as well.

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Hie Thelema,

It's really a GREAT NEWS (if it's true): a finally new real hallucinogenic Salvia sp after S. divinorum! (?). But why don't you want to reveal its exact botanical identity ??

If your experiment was truly entheogenic, then it should not have place about doubts concerning the activity of your plant, but oddly you feel the need to ensure you by verifying with other people, while concealing the identity of your plant which greatly bothers me, I am afraid to conclude that your experience is either weak (not intensely hallucinogenic) or it's a joke for new year.

You seem nevertheless very enthusiastic by your discover, then I wait for to see.

[ 03. January 2004, 04:15: Message edited by: lugdun ]

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Ah I have forgot, I would want to suggest you that there are any other means to validate scientifically the truth of your experience that you reveal (early or late) the botanical name of your Salvia sp because most people, if whole in this forum, can't verify if your dry leaves you send by mail to your generous guinea pigs, are not laced with salvinorin.

In the past you have revealed us that Salvia buchananii possess effects similar to S. splendens but much stronger and I tend to believe you. Then I toss you a call, give us the name of your species to allow us to verify in great number, and that would add credibility in your discover.

Thanks

[ 03. January 2004, 02:29: Message edited by: lugdun ]

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lugdun:

But why don't you want to reveal its exact botanical identity ??

Its called the scientific method.

Research, hypothosise, test, confirm that the results of the test are reproducable, submit for peer review, THEN make a formal anouncement.

If Thelema said the species name now people would start spreading the word across the web and making it sound like proven gospel- then if it turns out Thelema actually just had a false positive lots of false data would be out there and it would keep spreading.

I applaud Thelema for having restraint and acting in a scientific manner.

Be patient guy, I'm sure when the results are in Thelema will state what species it was- even if it was a false alarm.

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Auxin,

I understand what you mean.

Sorry for my impatience Thelema.

Cordially

[ 03. January 2004, 04:36: Message edited by: lugdun ]

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