Pat Uri Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Phaemon'sDog with the goods on the Theobroma. Seems about four species can be used for cocoa "chocolate" - the cultivated T.cacao and the wild ones T.grandiflorum, T.bicolour and T.speciosum. Cause T.cacao has been long time cultivated its breeds have become "soft", fast growing and easy to process. Bit too soft though - falls over in strong winds or waterlogged soil. Harvesting the bark - which produces the most ash - would open it to infection and kill it. The wild ones are slow growing, harder and not so commercially "valuable". T.bicolor is the hardest, strongest and best ash producer. It has the woodiest fruits best suited to hollowing out as snuff boxes. The others too soft and pulpy and T.cacao mushy and useless as it splits apart easily. "Chocolate" flavour is one of the choice sauces for casing tobacco as they share a couple of aldehydes in their perfume. Casing is to make an inferior tobacco look, smell and taste better and abhorred by connoisseurs. Cheap cigars often smell more like chocolate than tobacco. An "honest" sauce would be sugar molasses + glycerine + water and an "adulterous" sauce would be sugar + cocoa + glycerine + liquorice + coumarin + vanilla + coffee + saccharine + mapeline syrup, but the liberties and skulduggery don't end there I can tell you. You can buy an atrocity known as non-tobacco, nicotine-less "cigarettes" made of T.cacao product - you can hump a rubber woman for sex, too. We used to have "More" in Australia also from overseas "Hillbury", "Vessel" and "Orion" (I think) - you'll have to import them and f*ck knows what Customs will make of them - oh dear, cigarettes that have no tobacco! we didn't think of that! better charge them $100 a packet just in case - can't have them think we are idiots that are making it up as we go along. I see T.cacao cultivation is going on in the Gold Coast Hinterland - a bit of research might get you some offcuts - imagine the look on their faces when you tell them you are going to the trouble to source it because you want to burn it to ashes. Yeah chocolate has long been used to spice up tobacco - use the Lindt product with high content - all the rest is Western style sugar/condensed milk with little real content, in fact a lot of it is artificial. I don't know if "Chocolate" is an official substance like "beef" etc. - Mcdonalds know what I mean by that. Cheers! P'sDog. Edited November 6, 2015 by Pat Uri 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pat Uri Posted November 14, 2015 Hey people, it is the PhaemonsDog - I keep forgetting where I'm up to, 'cos of a parallel link with this thread and "traditional tobacco curing tech" over in another topic and not to mention posting to other websites like www.sickpuppy.altporn.org...now, I just made that up! Just concentrating on the snuff - no, not the snuff you find on www.sickpuppy.altporn.org - TOBACCO snuff I realise I haven't even mention how snuff is made. OK - you can crush dried out cigarettes for a fix and take the chance that ATO don't bust you for "manufacturing". But snuff is usually made from fire cured leaf in the raw stage before saucing and casing. You can make your own fire cure by hanging colour cure leaf over a burning mosquito coil in a bin so that little smoke develops the cure. Continue for weeks until the leaf darkens. The smell of coils doesn't stick, its the formaldehyde etc. from the smoke that does the chemistry as the leaf "breathes" i.e. takes in humidity and other gases. Fire cured is very tasty - heat is not enough for too much carcinogen to form - but tobacco is nasty enough without coating it in pyrolysis tar. However you won't be smoking it, but ATO definitely consider this "manufacturing". But theyre more interested in you upgrading its "commercial" worth than your health. American fire cure smoke is very hot because they want it quick and it ends up very carcinogenic. Oriental fire cure is very slow and cool that makes it expensive. Pity, American Copenhagen is the tastiest snus (moist snuff) but the most cancerous. The "a merkins" are into that - unhealthy but very tasty gear - Texas BBQ, triple decked cheeseburgers, drinking straight spirits, porn etc. The largely fire cured is then heavily fermented beyond even cigar tobacco - once, twice and even three times until all the top note "phenolic" perfume is gone. It can be done with heat alone - "toasting" or in combo with high pH "scotching". Personally I don't like my tobacco too processed and I don't like cancer. During grinding some other essential oils are added - take your pick. Stimulating directly the olfactory nerves tobacco is the perfect fixative for any perfume. It only takes traces. Any unscented tobacco can be perfumed by putting a smear of essential oil on a piece of paper and putting it near the tobacco - not on the tobacco because it magnifies the smell. Sieving the totally dried tobacco happens in a unique filter bag that looks like a hammock. The bag is made of 38 thread per centimetre (96 per inch) silk bolting cloth and costs a fortune. Save your money by going to an artist's supply shop and getting polyester silk screen material to make the "ponce" bag. Industrially the bag is the size of a hammock and suspended the same way but at a fifteen degree angle. The bottom end is vibrated and the feed stock dropped in by overhead hopper. The smell is divine! What doesn't sieve through is too coarse and returned to grinding. Yourself would use a much smaller bag to shake it through. The sievings are conditioned back to "dry" 18 to 22% moisture or "moist' 28 to 30% moisture and aged before sale. Yep - ATO consider every step mentioned here "manufacturing" even if you bought the tobacco OTC - but like many laws only illegal if you're caught. OK and bye 4 now. P'sDog. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katu Posted November 15, 2015 Copenhagen "snuff" is a dirty little pleasure of mine. But yes not very good for you. I'm not sure it could be called a snus as it's not pasteurized like the swedish stuff but damn is it tasty yeah . It's not something I do often cause as P's dog mentioned is very carcinogenic but is a nice little treat from time to time. Matter a fact I not long finished a tin. My favorite American oral tobaccos are their loose leaf chews. Redman chew, despite its non PC, or should I say outright racist name is absolutely gorgeous. Have got a cheek full of that Golden Blend of theirs at the moment. Yum . That's not very good for you either, but like all things in moderation . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pat Uri Posted November 15, 2015 Oh Sweet Jesus forgive my sinful soul - I do love American chew tobacco! But by the same Christ I'm not giving ATO $200 for nothing on an import of an $8 12oz packet of Taylor's Pride Apple! They're off their tits charging 25X the face value of an imported product in tax - when its only 33% tobacco anyway. Hear Old Pat Uri has found an argument, from Mining Company's tactic over imposed carbon tax, that apparently there is protection under that law that the Government cannot charge "unreasonably excessive" "usury" tax when it becomes multiples of product face value - their complaining about their tax approaching 2X, so how do ATO get away with 25X? Aus Fed Govt aint gonna pay for your oncologist and chemotherapy when it gives you cancer and they ain't gonna pay for your dentist when your teeth decay from that glucose, fructose rich delicious tobacco chew being in contact with your teeth all day. You'll barely afford treatment yourself having given all that money to ATO! Anyways, in heaven I'll chew A merkin tobacco all day with the angels having no teeth to fall out and spit all the juice down on Canberra! Meantime Katu you are right - its a dirty little pleasure like eating Mcdonalds, drinking over-sweetened root beer and strumming the one stringed banjo to Max Hardcore videos. How American! Gawd Bless d'USA! The very Aussie PhaemonsDog 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katu Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) ^LOL . The duty is absolutely obscene isn't it! A $10 pouch of chew ends up costing over $100. Who in their right mind would pay these taxes....And yet here we are . Add the fact that it is so very bad for you makes it a rare treat indeed. But man is it tasty...To be honest this is one case where I feel the exorbitant duty tax on smokeless tobacco works in my favour, cause if I could buy pouches of this shit from the local corner store for $10 a piece i'm pretty sure i'd in the very least be missing all of my teeth by now . So good yet so bad! P's dog, I ask you to ask the much esteemed squire, Pat Uri a very serious question on my behalf . Even as a black fella does this stuff not give rise to some strange, sickening, almost uncontrollable inner hillbilly. Cause seriously man in my case, well.... I'm a peace loving, tree hugging dude who's idea of fun is taking long bush walks with the missus, looking for native orchids and the like to try and ID. Spending time in the garden, nurturing plants and what not. U know, picking up half dead animals that have been hit by cars and taking them to the local wildlife carers. Yet once I've got a quid of chew in my mouth I have this almost uncontrollable desire to go buy an F Truck, a camo longbow and a rifle. Drive to the nearest nature reserve and literally kill every cute little furry creature that so much as moves. Then spend my evening masturbating wildly to a picture of Sarah Palin. It's repulsive I know ...Like I said, it's a good thing I can't get this stuff on tap.... Edited November 16, 2015 by katu 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pat Uri Posted November 16, 2015 ...No...Definitely not...I could mention it to Pat Uri, en passant, but I fear you would have little to gain Katu by such a line of inquiry, as it may be considered inappropriate, "culturally insensitive" and insulting. Yours above, would most certainly be a whitey fella repressed race memory from your mitochondrial DNA - as there is no "inner hillbilly" "inside" modern Australian aboriginals to relate to, just because they might observe tribal tradition in modern times. Id est:- They do not kill for pleasure; they do not intervene "karma"; they are not temporarily environmentally aware as a fashionable dictate; and they do not ape utterly foreign cultures because they appreciate a few samples of appropriated commodities. That is frankly hostile thinking. You would do well not to wish to comment on a culture that you don't fully understand, especially in directing such questions to a formal Elder Law Maker, Keeper of Secrets and Medicine Giver like 'Pat Uri' about sacred tobacco. Shall we just say you were a little over enthusiastic and socially excited in your previous deposition? In decency we will forget this ever happened - don't insult yourself with apology - let it go here, move on, and don't do it again. OK - I know Pat Uri is keen on informing you all at forum about making chewing tobacco traditionally especially when we get up to native Aussie stuff that they have long history with. What makes the American so good is their long experience with curing the high pH fire cured tobacco with monosaccharide syrups like corn, maple, cherry, peach, apple, indigenous berry, tree sap syrups.etc. Monosaccharides react with tobacco's amino acids under neutral to high pH and aging to make the advanced flavours of the Maillard's Reaction. Unfortunately excessive heat will cause amines and nitrites to combine to form TSN that cause cancer - hence traditional tech don't use heat, only time...and time is money in the USA. But excess monosaccharides like glucose and fructose are gonna rot your teeth with such long gum contact. So Esteemed Elder Pat Uri has worked on using uncommon monosaccharides like xylitol, sorbitol, mannose, etc. down to the simple polyglycols that still react in the Malliard's Reaction for flavour, but do not feed the tooth decaying bacteria. In fact these exotic sugars poison out the decay bacteria and some, like xylitol, chelate calcium and fluoride back into the teeth to strengthen them. However the Federal Government refuse to allow him permits to continue the studies - "it's still tobacco!" and tobacco is bad...and cigarettes are still the protected industry in Australia. No point saying that if the Federal Government banned cigarettes tomorrow and only permitted TSN carcinogen removed, smokeless for sale there would be a fraction of smoking tobacco related disease in the future... ...However folks remember it is only politicians that hold us back - and it is only votes that make politicians. Politicians would pimp out their own mother if it gave them the votes to get in power...there is much to the doctrine "agitate, educate, organise" get onto your local people, build up a majority and let them know how many votes your clan carry. If they won't listen - like my local Brissy MP young TB - carry them away for another that will listen, MUST listen. Keep the faith! Phaemon's Dog for Clan Pat Uri. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katu Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Edited November 16, 2015 by katu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
