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oriky

TBM, short, medium and long forms?

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hey guys,

i just talk with american guy, he told me he have medium and long forms of TBM,i know only the short form and the long one.

when i ask him what is medium one he told me the is a around 7-8 inch for branch.

so, here what im think.

(all the picture from the net, if is a problem please let me know)

Short form:

JCPFS44.JPG

medium form:

Penis_cactus_810.jpg

and the long form:

370616836-IMG_3446.jpg

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hey oriky, the first thing you should understand is all americans are full of shit.... :wink:

second, direct your attention to this thread http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41050

last but certainly not least, a new person to this forum should read every thread dating back at least 5-6 years, just for the wealth of knowledge

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Could the medium just be a younger or smaller cutting of the long form?

i dont think so, i already see some different plant of TBM short form that was quite bigger...

zelly, you make me laugh :)

i wish i have all the time to read all the threads, i cant find the time. and none of the threads is unequivocal...

i will look on the thread you share, thx

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You are unlikely to find an unequivocal answer to this question unfortunately. There are at least two distinct forms of the fully monstrose T. bridgesii (not counting crested or variegated forms which appear to have originated as sports from TBM clones, and not seed). There is quite a bit of debate and speculation surrounding the existence of other forms.

T. bridgesii seems to have strong phenotype variability based upon growing conditions. For example so called semi-monstrose T. bridgesii have a tendency to revert to normal, non-monstrose growth when planted in the ground. I have seen a lot of variability in TBMs, and it is hard to say how much of it is due to different growing conditions and how much is due to actual different plants/clones. I have been trying to collect as many different (apparent) variations as I can and growing them out under the same conditions to try and determine if there are (a. 2-3 clones with lots of variation due to environment or (b. numerous varieties (short, long, medium, fat, skinny, clumping, non-clumping, etc.).

I'll try and post some photos, but fair warning I said as much in the post zelly linked and I have yet to do so, so...

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Take this for what it's worth, but I've found segments as long as 6 inches on my short-jointed form.

As far as I'm aware, there are only two widespread varieties. I have heard claims from others of a 3rd, the medium one, just as you said though.

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I agree there derk. i have a few shorts that get the long thin pups on them but even their pups usually end up being the little egg shaped tbm's we come to love!

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You are unlikely to find an unequivocal answer to this question unfortunately. There are at least two distinct forms of the fully monstrose T. bridgesii (not counting crested or variegated forms which appear to have originated as sports from TBM clones, and not seed). There is quite a bit of debate and speculation surrounding the existence of other forms.

T. bridgesii seems to have strong phenotype variability based upon growing conditions. For example so called semi-monstrose T. bridgesii have a tendency to revert to normal, non-monstrose growth when planted in the ground. I have seen a lot of variability in TBMs, and it is hard to say how much of it is due to different growing conditions and how much is due to actual different plants/clones. I have been trying to collect as many different (apparent) variations as I can and growing them out under the same conditions to try and determine if there are (a. 2-3 clones with lots of variation due to environment or (b. numerous varieties (short, long, medium, fat, skinny, clumping, non-clumping, etc.).

I'll try and post some photos, but fair warning I said as much in the post zelly linked and I have yet to do so, so...

Not to change the subject too much, but what do you mean by they "originated as sports" ? I always wondered how there came to be a variegated version of an existing clone (in the case of the variegated TBM and TBMC). I assumed they were just seed grown phenotypes that just happened to have the same shape. So, somehow people actually bring out variegated traits from these cacti? How is it done?

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So, somehow people actually bring out variegated traits from these cacti? How is it done?

once you've achieved the same vibrational frequency as the subject plant, genetic mutation via telekinesis

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Farkin Zelly ^ lol!! Drinking and laughing at the same time. Just about drowned! Thanks for that.

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Not to change the subject too much, but what do you mean by they "originated as sports" ? I always wondered how there came to be a variegated version of an existing clone (in the case of the variegated TBM and TBMC). I assumed they were just seed grown phenotypes that just happened to have the same shape. So, somehow people actually bring out variegated traits from these cacti? How is it done?

From Cactus Art:

 

"The variegated form of Trichocereus bridgesii forma mostruosa is a freak appeared spontaneously among normal green plants at CACTUS ART nursery. The mother plant (the one on the main photo) is the fist and unique specimen of this extraordinary plant, perhaps other clones exist elsewhere, but this is the unique original CACTUS ART clone."

There appears to be at least two clones of variegated TBM out there, the "US" clone and the "European" clone (mentioned above) (designations I just made up, so in no way common or recognized universally). I don't know where the "US" clone originated, and I am not even certain that the two are distinct, but based upon photos I have seen there appears to be two (at least) separate clones.

There is also speculation that there are more than one form/clone of TBMC. Sacred Succulents occasionally offers cuttings of TBMC that they found growing on their huge short form mother plant. For an unknown reason one of the pups grew crested, so they removed it and have been propagating it. There is also a TBMC clone out there that throws reverted (not crested, but still monstrose) pups which are much longer than the normal short form pups, suggesting a different origin than the SS TBMC.

I have no knowledge of where the VTBMC originated, or anything else about it other than it is not in very many peoples hands. I vaguely recall someone claiming to have gotten a TBM from seed that I believe resembled the short form, which if true suggests there may be several lineages of TBM out there which take on a limited number of forms (part of the reason I prefer "short/long form" over "clone A/B").

To my knowledge the various combinations of monstrosity, cresting and variegation all occurred as random acts of nature. For some reason plants will occasionally grow a branch or limb which shows different genetic expression than the rest of the plant (the genes don't change, they are just expressed differently- on/off, different combos). What causes this change is unknown, but observant growers will often propagate these "sports" if they have interesting or useful traits.

I know there are folks out there experimenting with exposing seeds and plants to various chemicals, hormones, radiation, pathogens, harsh conditions, etc with the hope of producing new mutants, but I have no idea how successful any of their attempts have been. In the case of Trichoceri the hybridization/crossing of certain individuals and species seems to produce high numbers of mutants/crests/veriagates, but this isn't quite the same as "turning on" such traits in a "normal" specimen.

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Kykeion, the crest was a sport of the long penis clone, or the long penis form was a sport of the crested plant? I suspect the latter.

Time will tell

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