Commune

[Being]

This year, well, the last few years -for me- has been building up to something - culture overload. It's happening, I need to get out. I haven't yet left my parents home, but wish to now ASAP. I have been wistfully thinking of commune life for the past few months and today decided to see what I could find out online. I found this site http://www.creativeideasforyou.com/commune_land.html

There are many many Australian links, most of them don't work though. This surprised me greatly, these places exist!

Does anyone here have any information on any particular communes in Australia? Perhaps point me in the right direction? Are there communes with a basis on the use of entheogenic plants? And is anyone else here interested in this also?

Any info would be greatly appreciated. I don't know how much longer I can sustain existence within the cola-guzzling, who wants to be a millionaire-watching society. too much.

[Torsten]

It is by far easier to join an established commune than to get one started. Established communes have already weeded out the rogue elements and are on the path the majority favours. Almost all communes and communitites have struggles from within and the more established the commune, the more aware people are of such struggles. Some places never get over these struggles, while others do so immediately or after a lot of hard work. It is important for your own peace of mind (if that's what you are seeking) to find a commune that has gone through the process of finding itself. Sadly, these places are usually also full as everyone is much happier there.

The simple concept of the commune due to its financial ease and alternative lifestyle, attracts a lot of destructive, dissatisfied and generally kaputt people. Some communes are even based on such (eg taking only rape victims, reformed alcoholics etc) and are not usually the place to find happiness for a person without such a problem.

The one common thing I find most disappointing about communes is their inability to feed themselves. many claim to be permaculture havens, but can barely feed a family of 4. Laziness and pot growing/consumption frequently take precedence over the daily needs. In fact, pot growing is probbaly the most destructive force within communes, encouraging a money based lifestyle rather than one based on handmade and homegrown goods, and also causing anxiety, misunderstandings and overprotectiveness.

I am sorry to say that I have so far only seen communes that didn't work all that well. Some members of this community have had experience in the Eart Star tribe though and although I have no first hand experience with them, they seem to be very open about plant based entheogens (while being hardline against chemical & hard drugs), very much involved in food production and quite fluid in their make-up.

Good luck.

[Guest reville]

Maybe try moving out of home and sharing first. Then youll know who and what you like or cant stand

id much prefer privately owned small blocks situated within a community with shared agroforestry plantations, integrated water catchment management and growing cooperatives for value adding local product where everyone has the benefit of an equal stake in the environment and welath creation (the best of socialism) while people have the mental security of the clear definition between 'yours/mine' and 'ours' and the ability to work as little or as much in their

own private enterprises (the best of capitalism)

[cactuslizardmagick]

count me in rev

[Torsten]

Originally posted by reville:

id much prefer privately owned small blocks situated within a community with shared agroforestry plantations, integrated water catchment management and growing cooperatives

I am in one of those. It is entirely dysfunctional. Now we even have one member who wants to log the place. The problem is that most of them don't have strata title and without it there is no legal protection. On most M/O's you can move onto the neighbours block and there is nothing anyone can do about it. And I haven't even covered boundary disputes yet...... shotguns are a frequent tool in drawing fence lines.

I'd never buy anything less than freehold (or strata freehold) again.

[gomaos]

I've also had quite a few experiences with communities. I've spent quite a bit of time in NorthNSW communities and 12 yrs owning a share in a so=called community 4 hrs north of Brisbane.

In the north nsw one near kyogle e4vrything was cool and groovy at first, then somehow the wrong people got in and tipped the balance for the worse. Somebody torched a house and went to jail. Some other people basically did nothing else than walk around and look for their fellow-communards dope, because that was "against the law". Those hippocrits then smoked and sold the dope themselves.

the south-east queensland one? Violently beautiful, overgrown with all sorts of wattles, which most people hated and called them weeds...little did these idiots know then what we know now: that acacias can be full of dmt... i never had anything against wattles..,.

this community could not work because of the people, the shareholders: They tried to apply a 21st century idea (that's what it is for me, because hardly anyone succeeded in the last century)to their basically redneck mentalities. That's why it couldn't work, because they still had their own backward beliefs about weeds, personal interaction, education, the whole lot, their ideas weren't any different than those of people in the next redneck village. And most didn't even make an effort to try and change.

In the end their stupidity pissed me off so much, I just sold the place. Oh I had other reasons to, of course.

What I mean: If you want to built or join a community make sure what's inside people's minds.

In most cases they just want to grow dope and save money for a block in the suburbs.

[This message has been edited by gomaos (edited 31 August 2001).]

[Fractalhead]

Hi fellow Being,

I totally reccommend you take a look at WWOOFing as a way of getting out and about through the country experiencing a wide range of lifestyles. You might have heard of it already. It stands for Willing Workers On Organic Farms. Basically, you pay a joining fee (about $40 for twelve months) and they send you out a book that is chockas full of organic farms that are WWOOF hosts, each with a bit of a description of what goes down at the place. Then there will be a phone number and/or address so you can get in contact with them about the possibility of staying there for a while. The deal is generally meant to be half a days work (4 hrs) on the farm for a full days board, including food and shelter etc. Its ideally all about sharing culture and learning new ways. The farms have to be organic or almost totally organic to get on the list, and many of them are way into alternative lifestyles/self-sufficiency/permaculture/sustainability. My wife and I have wwoofed a bit around Far north Queensland, and i have wwoofed at a really good permaculture eco-village in Dunsborough, WA (if you do a search for the "eco-village network" you should find it on their site). Man, one place we worked at up north, we were living with a huge familiy with lots of little kids in this beautiful rainforest valley where they grew all kinds of rare tropical fruits like mangosteens and duriens and stuff. we were working for four hours a day repairing the holes in their nets that keep the birds and bats out of their fruit trees. then we had the rest of the day to cruise about and munch shopping bags of lychees and enjoy ourselves reading cool books and playing with the kids. And guess what... while we were talking to our hosts about their brugmansia tree, we got onto shamanic/psychedelic plants and they said, "oh... a friend of ours up the road collects those sort of things..." we couldn't believe our luck. we gave the guy a ring and that afternoon we were sitting in some beautiful tropical rainforest block talking to someone who could relate to us about these sacred plants. he showed us all his ayahuasca plants (B. caapi, and P. catharginensis), his san pedros, his Salvia divinorums and his Turbina corymbosa. We sat for hours talking about DMT, life, plants and having control of our futures...

It was great! And to think that it was all because we went WWOOFing. The address for WWOOF Australia is:

www.wwoof.com.au

if you want to check out some spiritual communes, you can order their spiritual commune book as well which i think is an extra five bucks or something.

there are thousands of wwoof hosts all around australia, and you can travel australia with hardly any money.

good luck dude,

fractal

[Guest reville]

I am in one of those. It is entirely dysfunctional. Now we even have one member who wants to log the place.

how are decisions made?

The problem is that most of them don't have strata title and without it there is no legal protection.

Yes i envisaged some sort of arrangement that clearly demarcates the private, communal and wild areas, land uses and the processes in making community decisions and has them mapped out clearly and enshrined in a legal agreement.

On most M/O's you can move onto the neighbours block and there is nothing anyone can do about it. And I haven't even covered boundary disputes yet...... shotguns are a frequent tool in drawing fence lines.

Id like a peruvian torch fence - then again itd probably get eaten

[spaced]

Good luck breaking free of the establishment Being. The nuclear family on a quarter acre block is a highly uneconomical venture on a planet with limited resources.

check out www.gaia.org for some extra information on ecovillages.

Perhaps people are approaching these intentional communities with the same mentality that helps them to get by in the workforce. A feasible approach here would be to maintain multiple personalities: a capitalist persona to get to work such that the rent or mortgage can be paid off and a more communal nature for working harmoniously over group projects - Aldous Huxley's 21st century schizoid man applied to the communal setting. Eventually as the community becomes more self sustaining people can begin to leave boring, unsatifying 40 hour per week jobs and sacrifice more time to the running of the commune. Once the commune is up and running with life sustaining permaculture systems, composting toilets, photovoltaic power etc people can dedicate more time to themselves ( I recommend everyone becomes professional students - free entertainment when none of your resources pass through the taxation system - hence no need to pay off HECS bills)

Look into Dr Pat Howden's work - this guy lives off $28 per week.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by reville:

how are decisions made?

LOL, luckily they are not being made. At the moment it is basically so dysfunctionla that most people aren't even living there. Once shareholder got scared off a few years ago and his share has been absorbed into another share. If the one guy actually tried to log the place I don't think he would be alive for long. Or maybe his house would end up in the creek (it's on a slope held by only a few flimsy poles). This sort of imbalance keeps rogues under control too as it scares them. Decisions?? The last time the place made a communal decision was 6 years ago when we got the internal road graded. That is usually required every couple of years, but there just isn't enough dialogue or motivation to actually do anything. A few new people have just bought into it and it has settled a lot. I've only met them once though.

[Being]

Wow, thanks for the input, guys. I've gotten the impression that perhaps the decision to join a commune is not something one should rush into. It's surprising to hear so many left bitter after the experience, a little disheartening these things don't actually work all the time. (Since having them 'work' seems to me part of the reason for them in the first place)

It's also sad to hear about the people who spend their time growing MJ and not being able to feed themselves -what happens when they meet Sgt. Mun Cheeee!

I am interested in the Eart Star Tribe, do you know where I could get a little more info?

Many people seem to have very different reasons for wanting to join a commune. Some pretty negative. My personal reasons are to escape a society I feel is incredibly destructive and ignorant, to have a more direct involvement in caring for my own and others basic needs ie food, shelter etc, to have more time to do things I feel are very important to my own day to day life (because I work different times/hrs, day/night etc every week, it's almost impossible to have a satisfying spiritual routine), I'd also like to meet and enjoy the company of like-minded people, as I don't really know any here in bris, and mostly because I feel my current way of living is incredibly unnatural -I may as well have been born with clothes on and a remote in my hand.

WWOOFing sounds great, fractal, and it is something I'll remain open to, however it sounds more like something for a couple or a group of people to try together? It does sound good on one level though, as for the past year I have been working full time saving up to go backpacking through the UK, and I'm thinking perhaps starting off going around Australia would be better. However I don't think I'll ever have the courage to work in such a job for another year when I am ready for the UK, so I may never get there.. Thanks for the links also

I've been meaning to give Aldous Huxley's novels some attention, what was the book about the utopian society called? Island?

Well, I'll keep looking, thanks for all the advice. I know there's somewhere here in Australia where I can find some happiness !

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Being:

I am interested in the Eart Star Tribe, do you know where I could get a little more info?

sorry, I just know some people who live in Nimbin who are in it, but don't have tyeir contact details. Maybe you could check the packaging of the "Earth Star Foods" tofu packaging at your local coles supermarket for an address.

Many people seem to have very different reasons for wanting to join a commune. Some pretty negative.

Many join because it is the last option they have.

WWOOFing sounds great, fractal, and it is something I'll remain open to, however it sounds more like something for a couple or a group of people to try together?

Na, it's much better by yourself, as most places only take one WWOOFER at a time. But you get to meet heaps of people. I met an american WWOOFER at the Seed Savers Network yesterday, who will actually be there for several months. So while many move around every few weeks, you cna get places that are more long term. And the skills you can leanr alng the way prepare you for many other places in the world. Such as, doing it with the seedsavers brings unique skills for local seedsavers networks all over the world.

You could alsways start your own commune. There is land around the border ranges for $500 per acre - ie 50 ac lots for $25,000. Definitely something within reach of many likeminded people.

[gomaos]

Originally posted by Being:

I've been meaning to give Aldous Huxley's novels some attention, what was the book about the utopian society called? Island?

Yes, Island is a very good book. I think it's set in Bali or some place like that before it got overrun by tourists and capitalist entrepreneurs(spelling?)

Also very recommendable: "Brave New World"... most of what Huxley described there as science fiction is now happening already...ok we don't have flying cars yet, but helicopters. But genetically engineered humans, what huxley calls "soma" could easily be ecstasy...and so on (yes I know that soma really means either fly agaric or ayuhasca, no hairsplitting please)

and most of all the soul-less society has already taken hold on most of us.

yes, wwoofing is a very good alternative, I had quite a few wwoofers pass by when I had my place in the bush...I remember the europeans who would only do a certain job for an ounce of...which I didn't have, so they didn't do it.

...or that disturbed Mother from Adelaide who just walked around my place and said: "Yeah yeah exactly the same place I had with my ex...sooooooo primitive..."

I would have liked to say: "go to hell,"

but only smiled politely...

If I wasn't so tied up here, I'd go wwoofing myself....

[Being]

Well, after much thought, I am seriously considering going WWOOFing early next year! Possibly directly after EB2002. Quite excited

While things here haven't changed and at every turn consumerism troubles me, at least now there are happier times on the horizon, something to look forward to..

Even still I'd prefer not to go alone, if anyone is interested in the next few months, let me know

Thanks for the suggestion and info, you guys are invaluable

[Torsten]

Being - I just noticed that WWOOF also has a list of communes and open communities. Maybe this will give you some idea of what you are lookign for. It's the last list on this page:

http://www.wwoof.com.au/lists.html

By Feb 2002 we will also be part of the WWOOF network. But PLEASE don't e-mail us about this just yet. December at the earliest.

[Being]

Hey Torsten, thanks yes I've been meaning to look into that part of the WWOOF page but for some reason (probably just my puter settings) the text is way too small for me to read on the entire website, noticed that at all yourself?

I think combining WWOOF with communes is more than I could have hoped for, I'll definitely be more partial to looking them up than the non communal hosts.

Promise I won't email you ..yet!

[Torsten]

The text was really awkwardly large in my browser (netscape).

[anubian lights]

Cool as Torsten. Its going to be lucky little souls that end up wandering in your garden. Woofing is an excellent idea, onya for keeping the dream alive.

[Bigred]

what is the differance between a dwelling and a hut cani put huts on my property and not do all the building a new dwelling paperwork

[ghosty]

good points Torsten. Good points indeed. some of these places look a bit corrupt. I was in last few weeks looking into one in Costa Rica, it seemed to me that children were being abused there. There are many dangers in some communes. Then, there are many lazy people who think it's a great way to get through life while doing little for others. This is also false belief. It matters not where you live in this respect, there is always work to be done. we all must play a part in a community.

[ghosty]

Bigred, I think this boils down to "amenities". if it has bath / sink etc. it is dwelling. I am out of my knowledge here. I had heard it cant be knocked down by council if it has stayed up for 7 years.. might be bullshit though. aussie told me that so take with grain of salt. I will be doing that myself though in times to come (if i stay in this country).

[Bigred]

so if i make demountable cabins with no bathroom etc i can put them on my property with out making a aplication to

the goverment

[ThunderIdeal]

I doubt there is much point discussing it here personally.

AFAIK it comes down to your local council, they're the ones you need to be communicating with if you want to go around erecting.

[tarenna]

so if i make demountable cabins with no bathroom etc i can put them on my property with out making a aplication to

the goverment

Totally depends upon Local and State planning laws and regulations. In NSW on rural zoned land you can build a "farm shed" up to a particular size without consent of Council. Many people then choose to live in them and escape Council involvement. Some Councils pursue planning matters more than others ie. some Councils might come down hard on people living in a "farm shed" whilst others couldn't give a rats about it...

[ghosty]

All good advise. Bigred, That's what I will be doing when (if) i ever find where i wish to buy into (land). I mean, if your told to knock it down, you still got all your building materials. well mostly. If like me you'd just build it yourself, the only loss is some labor. If your also like me in the sense that you love to make things / build things, then it's not really work / labor anyhow is it? I spent many years in building industries so have no drama with that. I guess where the real drama comes into play, is if a person other than you (the builder) was in the building and it collapsed causing injury or death, you will be in huge drama's obviously. However that being said, I dont feel that you'd have to worry about collapsing anymore than me. There are of course many people out there who would try to build something such as a dwelling and create only an incredible danger. hence the laws. well, that and design to fit the area blah blah blah.

I have for many years built little huts / greenhouses etc. on my land, knocking them down and rebuilding them as i wish. who knows and who cares? I will always do things like this. my land, im not an idiot, can build good strong structures, and i WILL build whatever i dam-well please.

Edited July 22, 2015 by ghosty