Mayor orders police to remove man who wouldn't stand for Pledge of Allegiance

[Optimystic]

By Stephen Hudak, Orlando Sentinel

5:27 p.m. EDT, August 29, 2014

Winter Garden Mayor John Rees asked police to remove a man from a City Commission meeting Thursday night because he refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

"I just said, 'Either stand or go in the hallway.' He wouldn't," said Rees, 64, who was elected to a third, three-year term in March. "It wasn't premeditated. I just reacted. It hit me. I said it. I gave him an option. ... Life will go on." Rees said he considered the man's refusal to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance to be disrespectful to American military troops who are serving overseas and others who have given their lives in defense of freedom.

The man was identified by City Manager Mike Bollhoefer as Joseph Richardson, 51, who has repeatedly asked the city to change its invocation policy. According to the city's recording of the meeting, Rees asked everyone to stand first for the invocation, which is a brief ceremonial prayer or reflection that opens Winter Garden commission meetings, and then for the pledge.

"I don't think I have to," Richardson said while a crowd of 150 people stood and waited. With Richardson seated, Commissioner Bobby Olszewski offered the invocation, asking for a blessing on the citizens and city staff. "We thank you for allowing us to be in a country where we're free to believe and think and pray," he said. After the prayer, Rees addressed the seated Richardson.

"Now, sir, please stand while we do the pledge. You don't have to say it, but please stand," the mayor said. When Richardson didn't rise, the mayor spoke to police Chief George A. Brennan. "Chief, ask him to either stand or please escort him out till we get through the pledge," the mayor said. The police chief approached Richardson and asked, "What are you going to do?"

Richardson then rose and left. He was not arrested.

Though Rees said he did not know Richardson by name, he recognized him from previous meetings as the man who sits in the front row and then leaves after the invocation and pledge. "He doesn't come to the meetings because he cares about the city," Rees said.

In emails to Bollhoefer and City Clerk Kathy Golden, Richardson has asked the city to allow him to give an invocation — a duty reserved in Winter Garden for city commissioners or, on rare occasions, a clergyman picked by the mayor.

"As a resident of Winter Garden, I would like our city to be known for its inclusiveness for all points of view and its respect for all individuals," Richardson wrote in May. "Opening up the commission meeting invocations to everyone would be a wonderful step in that direction."

Richardson could not be reached today by phone or email. Consisting of 31 words, the 122-year-old pledge has been the subject of debate and legal battles for years, including a notable one in Florida that led a federal appeals court to rule that it was unconstitutional to force students to recite — or even stand "at attention" — for the pledge.

The Florida case involved an 11th-grader at a school in Palm Beach County whose parents sued in 2005 after the teen was punished and ridiculed by his teacher for refusing to stand while his classmates recited the pledge. The mayor of Winter Garden was wrong to require Richardson to stand, said Baylor Johnson, spokesman for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

"People are not required to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance or a sectarian prayer or any kind of compulsory expression just to attend a public meeting," he said. "The problem with telling people they have to participate in any mandatory expression is that it tells people who might have a religious objection or other deeply held belief that, if they don't go along with what the government tells them to do, they aren't welcome in this community." Johnson said they had not been contacted by Richardson.

The mayor's ultimatum — stand or leave — "is exactly the kind of thing we have a First Amendment to prevent," Johnson said.

The Wisconsin-based atheist group Freedom from Religion Foundation emailed the mayor and the police chief asking both to explain at the next meeting that citizens are within their rights to stay seated for the pledge. The email said the man who was asked to leave the meeting is a member of that organization.

The group also promised to attend the commission's next meeting and vowed to stay seated during both the invocation and pledge to protest "these egregious violations of the Constitution," according to the email, sent by its staff attorney Andrew Seidel.

In his email to Rees, Seidel said the group has a video of the incident during which someone in the audience shouts, "Just stand up, man."

Edited August 30, 2014 by Spine Collector

[DiscoStu]

lol separation of church and state

[Auxin]

Americans are pretty schizophrenic on this one.

In some cases, like above, adults are punished for not bowing to the state and its religion, in other cases everyone is given a defended right to choose.

I remember when I was in the second grade we were about to start the pledge of alleigence, I asked the teacher why we were required to do this thing. She kind of blinked and then very clearly said each student can choose for themselves and if they dont want to they can just sit quietly for the few moments. Funny how the more enlightened people are perfectly willing to give a six year old more freedom than some politicians want to give adults.

[Optimystic]

lol I forgot to post the link and the video..... the comments are more interesting than the video i'll admit

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-mayor-tosses-man-for-not-standing-for-pledge-of-20140829,0,80941.story

 

Edited August 31, 2014 by Spine Collector

[Auxin]

The prayer made it even more poignant.

'dear god may we all have the freedom to do what our conscience says and pray in our own way and let us love eachother and be friendly'

'hey you, you bastard, your not loving me and your not praying in my way, get the fuck out'

[Optimystic]

lol...

right after reading this in the early a.m. I was craving vids of cartman

saying the all too famous "Respect my authoritah!"

Edited August 31, 2014 by Spine Collector