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Do you believe in the signs of the zodiac, etc

Degree of belief in zodiac stuff in general  

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The title and poll says it all.

you might find it funny or weird for me, but I cannot deny I can see something more than coincidences in regards with zodiac signs. I also cannot deny I tend to search more about zodiac signs and try to find out their validity when I am interested in a girl. I mean, really interested.

What interests me most is the psychological profile of the signs, I mean the general characteristics of the signs, and not a yearly, monthly, weekly prediction/consultation stuffs, of course.

It's just , in some people and especially in some signs, that the coincidences are too much.

So, what is your sign of the Zodiac?

I am an Archer.

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well apparently the zodiachs are technically out are they not ?

I was born oct 30th and i am suppose to be a scorpio but apparently i am actually a libran due to the earth wobbling on its axis !

The dates have never been updated to take the Earth's Precession into account so you probably aren't what you think you are... and i believe technically there is actually a thirteenth sign as well isn't there ?

I always thought i shared the traits of a typical scorpio but i think its more likely they are just traits inherent among humans across the board.

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Voted no.

Not a believer in any way, shape or form, however it is interpreted.

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Not at all. I think that it's complete crap, it works on being vague and interpretations. Also what tipz said and there is supposed to be another star sign named after another constellation. It is all bullshit.

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Absolutely voted NO, i had 3 sisters and my mum brainwashing me with that shit for years, complete bullocks imo, lets say the soothsayers of old had a telescope or binoculors and were smokin something else what then? Basically they told the roman emporer / ceaser whatever the fuck he wanted to hear for fear of lorping their heads

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im a sag. im open minded, especially when i see a reading that is super-coincidental. no doubt that the time and surrounding astrological moment at ur conception and possibly your birth would have to play some part in what you are.

edit- i do share traits with alot of other sagatarians that i know. daydreamer, egocentric and off in the clouds. for alot of sag's its ALL about them, which normally pisses me off about other sag's, which of course is a trait that i share. ive spoken with other sag's who experience that as well, that other sag's shit them to tears. sagitarians are a freaky mob.

Edited by incognito

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I don't believe in co-incidence. Neither do I believe in what magazine 'astrologers' horoscopes tell me for the most part.

However I most certainly believe in the signs of the zodiac having a significant meaning in the universe. Like I keep saying, if something makes sense to me then i'll believe it.

I am a Libran and the characteristic traits of Librans are so 'me' that i'd be foolish to dismiss it all as false. I was raised to not believe in horoscopes or astrology so I wasn't shaped by any suggestion of how I should be according to my star sign. As an adult I discovered the significance of such and was surprised, nay astonished to realise the accuracy of some of it.

That said, however, I do not read a daily horoscope nor let myself be guided by them. But I find them very interesting.

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OK

Horoscopes = complete and utter bullshit

A Proper Astrological Natal Chart = not sure

I got really interested in Astrology in my last year of high school. I was dating a girl who used to buy these little horoscope scrolls and ended up reading a couple of books which prompted me to study it one evening a week, which I kept up for two years. My conclusion at the end of the 2 years? This could have something to it and then again it might not. (Sorry, I'm the eternal sceptic).

On one hand, there was a lot of stuff (once you delved deeper) that really felt right and seemed accurate a lot of the time. On the other hand, sometimes it wasn't accurate at all. There certainly seemed to be a lot more cases of accuracy than pure coincidence would allow but you can't rule that out. I am completely sympathetic with anybody who calls bullshit on the entire practice but most people call bullshit without learning more about Astrology than what they see in the Herald Sun or Woman's Day. To reiterate, horoscopes are complete bullshit. Sometimes they are written by Astrologers, but more often than not they are written by a journalist who makes up something that sounds kinda spiritual. Even when written by an Astrologer, they can't pigeon hole every person in to one of 12 categories.

.

.

Just to clarify a couple of things: What people call a starsign (for instance, I'm an Aquarius) is just what part of the sky the sun was in (as viewed from the earth) at the time you were born. In a full astrological natal chart, you will also map the positions of the other planets, the moon, the horizon. Different planets represent different aspects of your personality and the part of the sky they fall in are said to influence the way that part of your personality operates. In addition to that, where everything falls in relation to the horizon is extremely important from an astrological point of view. The placement of different planets in relation to each other is another factor. This birth map is called a Natal Chart and an Astrologer (when they do a reading) will compare your natal chart with the current position of the planets. A natal chart of a person right now will be quite different from the natal chart of a person born in twelve hours time.

I only occasionally look at Astrology these days, but I learned so much about myself, about other people and about the way the brain works from the two years I spent studying it. I don't necessarily believe in the validity of the "science" but I truly believe that it is a valuable tool in self exploration.

Edited by Rabaelthazar

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I wouldn't dream of this thread being so interesting.

The only way these 'coincidences' can be explained, as meeka suggested is people being raised in believing them thus ending up to be what their zodiac sign want them to.

But, like meeka said, I was not like that, in fact I always made fun of these superstitions and was and still am an atheist and sceptic. But the facts changed that in me. Moreover, the coincidences are not present in people who believe them only, but also to people who dont.

Also, it's obligatory for naysayers and everyone in general to tell their zodiac sign.

I am dying to read replies by believers in mechanical elves and the rest of the spirit world.

blowng, you do believe in the spirits , huh? Holymountain? Thunderideal?

PS: Inco, you have a somewhat distorted image of sagitarians, it seems.

all people are egoistic.

sagitarians [which I happen to be too and I share every trait of them] are good in NOT GIVING A FUCK in the good way - they are not the bad form of egoist, that's why nobody can't dislike them for a long time - at least that's what the general characteristics say.

So, if you're saying sag's are a freaky mob, and implying this for yourself too, then your missing the point dude.

this suggest to me that

along with not understanding how psychs work,

you dont understand yourself,

and you dont accept yourself

this and/or

psychedelic idealism and experiences made you into something that prevented you from liking and being yourself, like being frightened of yourself.

the characteristics of sagitarius describe a wonderful, multi talented, funny, pleasant dude. He hates commitment, he cant stand oppression, an open, free mind.

keep it up

good post raba

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For one, most of the "constellations" only appear the way they do from our perspective, when in reality, members of the constellation are 3-4 times further away than other members. So there's no animals in the sky. They don't even resemble animals, about every civilization has their own unique interpretation and they're almost all different.

For two, the "astrologers" seem to forget that we happen to live in a constellation, with the Sun as the centrepiece. Astrologers do not even care about the sun. Wtf? Why? So then they come up with some hocus about "undetectable force, doesn't get weaker with distance". Well then, astrologers are useless, because there are a million billion trillion quadrillions more stars than there are visible ones.

For three, the actual horoscopes are vague and apply to everyone. A nice little experiment by Randi showed this. He asked for a class to give him, in a sealed envelope, their star sign. He then placed in a horoscope, and handed them back out. Almost all of the class agreed they were quite accurate. Then he asked them to pass their individual horoscope to their classmate opposite them... Where they found everyone had received identical horoscopes.

For four, twins (not identical ones) often have completely different personalities. This removes almost 100% of the deterministic predictability that star signs claim to have. How could 10 seconds have so much variation? The stars were the exact same alignment pretty much.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gravity and light have infinite range, so of course those stars have an effect on Earth. But the effect is not something a bozo can estimate, nor an astronomer with a supercomputer can calculate.

Astrology is FAKE.

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hey mutant if you can correctly diagnose my star sign with a set of questions concerning my personality I will drink a litre of pig semen.

  • Like 1

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can I see a photo of the pig for inspiration?

seriously, you clearly dont understand where I am coming from.

someone who got raped as a kid, will be more traumatised by this fact than any zodiac bullshit.

I am not expert, I just believe there is something.

I have not time to write/speak now. I will be back. I have to look up everyfucking term in english too,

Edited by mutant

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i love those those horoscopes:

"you will will be confronted by a situation and will be forced to take action" :crux:

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comparing the vedic astrology with the western version, leads me to believe that the western version is basically an unsupported cult phenomena and the vedic version is largely scientific. I also have different signs under the different systems.

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Gemini and I absolutely hate horoscopes, I believe they are socially and scientifically regressive.

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Weird, people seem to believe in some absurd things in this forum yet are totally opposed to star signs. I'll go back to *keeping my opinions to myself* though *sigh* p.s mutant, thunderideal never posted in this thread yet as far as I can see?

Anyway boys, carry on cocking your legs in my absence.

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The dates have never been updated to take the Earth's Precession into account so you probably aren't what you think you are
Astrologers have known about the Precession of the Equinox for millennia. Seriously, millennia. Aristarchus of Samos noticed it back in 280 BCE. What happens is that due to a wobble in the Earth’s orbit our relationship to the zodiacal constellations is in a constant shift. Our main point of reference here is what we call the Equinoctal Point, that is the point on the zodiac where the Sun is at the second of the spring equinox -- typically on March 21, but with leap years and depending on what time zone you’re in it could be the 20th. That particular point has been sliding backwards at such a slow rate that it makes a full cycle every 26,000 years. About 2,000 years ago that point was at the beginning of the sign of Aries, and a funny thing happened…

But first… for the many years before that astrologers had been noticing planetary motion and developed the system of signs. As with any developing body of knowledge they would slowly revise their descriptions of the signs as changes became evident. And the nature of the signs would change over the years to match the shift in stellar positions. Actually some astrologers still do that. They are called “sidereal astrologers” and siderealism is practiced rather little in the West, but it’s very big in India where the system is called Jyotish, or Vedic Astrology. In the west we generally prefer the “Tropical Zodiac”

Behind the “Tropical Zodiac” is the idea that the Zodiac of Signs is different from the Zodiac of Constellations. Building on Aristarchus’ discovery of the Precession, Hellenic astrologers figured that we are dealing with a system of interacting planets, the Moon and Sun. The stars are markers that drift, but our main points of reference are not directly the stars. They are the equinoxes (both spring and vernal) and the solstices which altogether make the four cardinal points of the zodiac which in turn determine the signs. The stars help us locate those points which define the SIGNS of the Zodiac which remain constant in relation to the equinox point. The CONSTELLATIONS do move about and we take that into consideration when locating planets.

taken from the comments in response to to this article:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/blog-post/2011/01/new_zodiac_sign_dates_dont_swi.html

An article which was widely reprinted & totally false as the above comment shows.

I don't believe in horoscopes, but i'm open minded about proper astrology.

Here is what Lyall Watson, author of Supernature, a book which sold over one million copies when it came out in 1973, said:

“Our sensitivity to the sun extends from light rays into the longer wavelengths of radio. We see the sun, we feel its warmth, and we respond to changes it produces in the earth’s magnetic field. These changes affect radio reception in a pattern that scientist John Nelson has shown can be predicted by the position of the planets. The amount of change is small, but its effect is most marked on biochemical processes such as nerve activity. Even by drilling two holes in the trunk of a tree, one can measure the variations in electrical potential that follow movements of bodies in our solar system, so it is no surprise to find that the complex human organism is affected by the planets.”

“Michael Gaugquelin, of the Psycho-physiological Laboratory at Strasbourg, was the first to quantify this effect. His twenty years of painstaking research are summarised in his excellent book, The Cosmic Clocks.

In 1950 Gauquelin became interested in planetary rhythms and looked for possible correlation’s on earth. As our planet spins on its axis, the sun and the moon appear to move overhead, rising and setting in solar and lunar days whose length depends on our latitude and the time of the year.

Other planets travel across our horizon in the same way, producing Venusian and Martian days that are equally predictable. In Europe all local authorities record the exact moment of birth in official registers, so Gauquelin was able to collect this information and match it with the positions of planets computed from astronomical tables. He selected 576 members of the French Academy of Medicine and found, to his astonishment, that an unusually large number of them were born when Mars and Saturn had just risen, or had reached their highest point in the sky.

To check these findings, he took another sample of 508 famous physicists and got the same result. He deduced that there is a strong statistical correlation between a child’s moment of birth and his future success as a doctor.

Taken together, the two tests produce odds of ten million to one against this happening just by chance. For the first time in history a scientist had produced evidence that the planets can actually influence, or indicate an influence, on our lives. This gives science a point of vital contact with the age-old beliefs in astrology.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Astrological-Predictions-and-Astrology-Anything-in-it

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it's obvious that there are some characteristics / vibe correlations that have to do with the time of year people are born. but it's hard to put a finger on it. easiest way to explain why there is some thruth to is it that it is like a repetitive rythem.

life is rythmic like a song..... so yes people born at specific times have rythem symmilarities to a certain extent.

rythem and repetion - history repeats itself - etc

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meeka>

Weird, people seem to believe in some absurd things in this forum yet are totally opposed to star signs.

you can say that again, that's why this thread is awesomely interesting

I'll go back to *keeping my opinions to myself* though *sigh*

dont need to do that, stay here to discuss. I haven't yet started ya know

p.s mutant, thunderideal never posted in this thread yet as far as I can see?

nope he didn't, but I would love Holymountains one

Also, good simplistic 'explanation' woof, I like the concept of it as a rhythm.

I am talking about general characteristics, or 'proper' astrology, btw, predictions and 'horoscopes' are not of my interest at all.

Edited by mutant

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life is rythmic like a song..... so yes people born at specific times have rythem symmilarities to a certain extent.

rythem and repetion - history repeats itself - etc

You can't really say that life is rhythmic, because it's not. Life so far, to our strongest probes, has been found to be undeterministic (this may change). But even if it were deterministic, most real systems exhibit chaotic behaviour; extreme sensitivity to initial conditions. Because of this, we cannot calculate the trajectory, only where the trajectory can go, and how often it will go there. But that's if we know the initial conditions even. For ultra complex systems (a human), we have no inkling of the initial conditions. We can barely calculate strange attractors for the simplest systems in nature, never mind complex systems.

Check this out. A pendulum right, it's pretty simple. Swings back and forth, and might be damped, or might be critical, or it might be forced. Not too hard, a simple second order ODE solves it completely.

YO DAWG, I heard you like pendulums, so I put a PENDULUM ON YOUR PENDULUM so you can pendulate WHILE YOU PENDULATE.

So two pendulums, one attached to the other? Simple right? Just solve another ODE? WRONG DAWG.

That becomes one of the simplest chaotic systems, and it is not possible to predict even a rough future motion without extremely detailed initial conditions (for certain energies). The real motion will also diverge, and soon your solution will be completely out, as you can only numerically solve it.

So back to my point, for a chaotic system, where we know not the initial conditions, how can we predict exactly, or even roughly the future?

We don't even know what the system entails (it entails just about everything), as we're learning that science's reductionist approaches have not really helped chaotic systems.

So pretty much, there's no room left for astrology to wriggle.

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I'm a Sag' too. We are pretty damn awesome you know ;)

I voted no but will also admit I have checked horoscope compatibility with girls before :P

Edited by botanika

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botanika you bastard!

so you lied! you lied AND you betrayed the best zodiac sign! anyways, sag got to love other sags.

I knew it that even you would see the truth of the zodiacs [ya know, girls, being in love and such, makes you loose a bit of your cool :lol: ] .

now the science police are after you.

prepare to loose your job if you're in some serious scientific position !!!

βluntmuffin>>>

So pretty much, there's no room left for astrology to wriggle.

but there's room for rapist alien mantises and mechanical elves in big doses of psychedelics ???!??!

lol

there's enough space as long as I say so. :bootyshake:

nice thought on the chaotic system. but we dont care to explain, mathematically or otherwise scientifically. it feels a right / proper reply to what I am perceiving as a strange phenomenon [zodiac characteristics confirm in statistically significant ratio] but you deny as a phenomenon. So there's no common land to discuss, is there?

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i do believe theres a high representation of sagitarians on the forum. i think could have something to do with the "daydreamer" characteristic. we are always thinking things that even we struggle to comprehend.

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but there's room for rapist alien mantises and mechanical elves in big doses of psychedelics ???!??!

lol

there's enough space as long as I say so. :bootyshake:

There was never any consensus that 'alien machine elves' existed outside of the mind of the person expecting them.

it feels a right / proper reply to what I am perceiving as a strange phenomenon [zodiac characteristics confirm in statistically significant ratio] but you deny as a phenomenon. So there's no common land to discuss, is there?

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/mar102009/641.pdf

Concluding remarks

We feel that our test asked a well-focused

question and the astrologers could not

point to any ambiguity of interpretation.

Many astrologers looked upon the success

they had achieved (even though at a

rate less than 50% expected by tossing a

coin) as a testimonial to their predictive

ability. We had to explain to them that

real predictive success could be claimed

only at 70% level for their sample size.

The test clearly demonstrated the hollowness

of the basic claim of astrology

as stated earlier. Diehard believers, of

course, would not change their mind.

However, it would be worthwhile conducting

a similar double-blind test to

check other aspects of astrological predictions.

One important aspect has been

the one tested by Silverman. Since a

large fraction of marriages is arranged

(or forbidden) on the basis of matching

of horoscopes, a statistical study of this

aspect will be useful. There may be several

difficulties in gathering these data,

but the effort would be well worth it.

What statistical significance? Less than chance? That's significant alright. Means some of them were worse than guessing (lol).

Until you can resolve your own confirmation bias then you will be doomed to roam forever the sea of ambiguity. I too roam this sea, but at least I have a boat. ;)

Edit:

I'm arguing this point because I want to illuminate the truth, the rational aspects of this, to make sure that your chosen viewpoint is one that reflects your intelligence. I'm only arguing because I care. If I didn't care I'd never have posted a reply.

Edited by βluntmuffin

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your very blunt, muffin!

and i think what your trying to get at is that your trying to illuminate YOUR truth. not everything has to be, nor even can be, proven.

i think that people share certain characteristics when born at certain times of the year. just a feeling. and i do think planetary alignment, whatever the f is out there at the moment of your conception and or birth may play a factor in who you are. i cant prove any of that, nor do i feel the need to.

boats are overrated.

Edited by incognito

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