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the hobbits must unite to protect the shire!

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whats your point chnt?

can we somehow shift the focus off me.. and onto the production of something of substance?

something of substance... mmm

realistically though... if every word that was scattered throughout other posts in one week were focussed into doing this one project we could havea functional association that can be used to achieve very definite goals...

such as-

publishing a newsletter which may possibly evolve into a magazine.

organising and coordinating events and advertiing for affiliated groups events and functions.

contacting and commuicating with local politicians

producing leafelts and flyers, postcards and video's for public education. such as in school drug education prgrams.

questions i have...

How much is a reasonable amount to charge for yearly membership?

For life membership?

what types of membership should there be?

should people who assist in designing the framework for the AuShaman Assoc. be given honorary life membership?

 

you ask, what is my point.

i think that is fairly obvious, do you see what i'm saying?

you ask if "we" can shift the focus off you, but the focus is on you, this is your thread, this is your idea/creation, the focus will not shift from you.

you are free to do and act how you wish, but perhaps if you want something to actually happen with your idea, instead of using the lack of success as fuel to attack other members, perhaps it would be wise to act like a genuine person rather than a holier than thou morally superior being.

what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point?

what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point? what is my point?

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I'm not even going to start explaining how your By-Laws should be presented until you show some serious effort has been made on the draft contitution.

 

until I show some serious effort? or what?

how patronising of you haha...

and seeings as u know what ure talking about.. can u let me know what u think of this...>>> thanks for the first bit... help me help them help you.

i uploaded a pdf here... http://www.orderofthegnosticsacrament.org/aushaman-associated.html

havea read and make comments on possible by-laws...

though before i spend to much time actually doing this... am i wasting my time on this talking ya'll about it?

should the "shamans" be left as criminals or should there actually be someone to represent them and their valid practices?

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if this is "my thread" "my creation" etc... then please dont post in this thread at all unless it is for the sake of assisting me in the creation of this entity.

although i would like to know your opinion... if it is u thinking that i am holier than though (which i am) and on a righteous moral crusade to rectify the wrong imposed on "us" and me by a twisted and psychologicall unstable government propaganda machine then i dont wanna hear it...

some of you will spend the next 50 years re-reading the same crappy how to grow a trcho thread whilst never actually doing n e thing to fulfill the role a shaman... if u r not a shaman ... thats fine... stay away from here.

if you are... i enjoin ure participation.

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let me illustrate through an example how i feel about this issue and maybe it can illuminate for you the correct and appropriate stance one should take in said regard.

Imagine if your wife and child were kidnapped...

Some one wanted 100 units of energy for their safe return or they were going to continue to allow them to be raped and assulted by gangs of thugs who were living in their captors abode...

You appealed to me for assistance as i had many units of energy and the capacity to locate and punish the kidnapper.

I told you quite rudely...

" My wife and child are here with me, why should i care about yours, even though you are a good friend of mine and we have shared some rather interesting times together, sometimes even learned things from each other... i have decided not to help you or to give you any energy... in fact i will give some of my energy units to one of the members of the gang because i owe them from last week when they threatened to take my underpants... its only a small amount tho... so i am not worried. Please stop asking me for energy units because i am not going to give them to you and i am not going to tell you where your family are either... because for me, as long as my wife and child are here, i dont care."

Rather than...

"sure heres the energy units... by the way, the dude who took your family is now living under a bridge."

this could all be so simple.

the fact is, substances that we love are hard to get in quanitity and purity because noone is willing to join in the effort to get them back.

this is the devils game i think.

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I really think we should enlist the assistance of Greg Karasic. He actually has some vision & capabilities without getting bogged down in spurting forth random word combination with little regard for the target reader's comprehension.

As for your 'first language is of the heart', I'm really not surprised at this response. You will note in my earlier question I was well prepared for some twee, rainbow-coloured retort.

If youre not interesting in heading up this proposal (whatever it is, I think everyone's confused) then I'm not spending time in creating the framework for a special club that you simply wish to be a member of. It all sounds like delirious late night camp talk after too many of those sacramental offering. You're doing a splendid job of winning over everyone else, so good luck with finding others to create your utopian association

While we're on the subject of intoxicated daydreams, I would like there to be a 24 pub in my city with art-rock bands playing round the clock, 20 craft beers on tap and hip-gyrating girls from the lost tribe of Israel dancing in cages suspended from beams holding an elegantly boho rattan ceiling. I don't actually have the capacity to create such a pub, in fact I have no idea where to start. Maybe I could convince other, more capable peple to put their own efforts into my personal dream... because you know, it's for the whole community, not just me.

There seems to be a lot of misguided and quite silly attempts at belittling others here, reptyle. You have even had several swipes at me, when clearly I have given you a bit of direction. I'm diarising a reminder to check back in three weeks, to see if you have put ANY effort in. And FYI if you say that you have registered an ABN, anyone who is interested can confirm the registration (including the date),and I for one would be surprised to see it listed. Will post my findings in a couple of weeks - being public & all hat lovely jazz.

But of course, I am a cynic. Maybe you need an action plan, so once again I'll help you, because you desperately need it.

How about Step 1: Stop insulting the community youre trying to enlist !

On an unrelated note, I often wonder what it would be like if Syd Barrett was a forum member.

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and if your initials are CS, your street name begins with "C" and the last number of your postcode is "0", then you need to be aware that your privacy is not sacred, and is available online if people know where to seek such information. You might want to keep this in mind before continuing to speak of a wonderful, dreamy entheogenic clubhouse, lest the authorities bounce right onto your case. If there's one thing that your typical copper, and mainstream society despise, its a whimsical drug-elf who paints incantations with his penis and is in the formative stages of setting himself up as a false messiah.

Or, I might be internet surfing publicly available information on some other lunatic fringe individual. You tell me.

Either way, you need to come back to earth for a moment and consider your public exposure.

Be safe, kiddo.

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I'm quite enjoying this thread, though it does make me miss the neg button. I don't think there's much point in trying to talk any sense into reptyle. He is either trolling, or just doesn't get it.

For what it's worth. I actually think it would be great to have some kind of alliance of people who think entheogens can be used for positive gain, whether it be neoshamans, other practitioners, or even just more generally, including recreational users. Clearly reptyle is neither the person to work on this, nor the person to get others excited about it, but fundamentally I think it would have a positive impact on the ethnobotany/entheogen community in australia. Still, just saying there should be 'some kind' of alliance is very different to drafting up a plan, and the latter would take a lot of work and potentially fall flat on its face if it wasn't drafted in a very clever way. Enough people would have to think it was an exciting idea, but there is a danger of a well written proposal making some people feel excluded, and this would be best avoided. It would only carry political weight if almost every person interested in this topic became a member. etc. etc.

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if this is "my thread" "my creation" etc... then please dont post in this thread at all unless it is for the sake of assisting me in the creation of this entity.

although i would like to know your opinion... if it is u thinking that i am holier than though (which i am) and on a righteous moral crusade to rectify the wrong imposed on "us" and me by a twisted and psychologicall unstable government propaganda machine then i dont wanna hear it...

some of you will spend the next 50 years re-reading the same crappy how to grow a trcho thread whilst never actually doing n e thing to fulfill the role a shaman... if u r not a shaman ... thats fine... stay away from here.

if you are... i enjoin ure participation.

 

what is assistance? i guess i have no idea, especially since my head is buried so deeply within a desert coffin.

and when you say that you are holier than thou, it is actually, that you think you are, it is impossible to ever truly know, in this instance i would listen to the wise sage psylo and look up on greg kasarik, even go as far as to read his divine principle, i'll even help you out a little. it's as easy as one click

what is a shaman? someone that says they are?

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I'm quite enjoying this thread, though it does make me miss the neg button.

 

Nooo, shun the neg' button . :)

I like to think reptyle's heart is in the right pace.

:)

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let me illustrate through an example how i feel about this issue and maybe it can illuminate for you the correct and appropriate stance one should take in said regard.

Imagine if your wife and child were kidnapped...

Some one wanted 100 units of energy for their safe return or they were going to continue to allow them to be raped and assulted by gangs of thugs who were living in their captors abode...

You appealed to me for assistance as i had many units of energy and the capacity to locate and punish the kidnapper.

I told you quite rudely...

" My wife and child are here with me, why should i care about yours, even though you are a good friend of mine and we have shared some rather interesting times together, sometimes even learned things from each other... i have decided not to help you or to give you any energy... in fact i will give some of my energy units to one of the members of the gang because i owe them from last week when they threatened to take my underpants... its only a small amount tho... so i am not worried. Please stop asking me for energy units because i am not going to give them to you and i am not going to tell you where your family are either... because for me, as long as my wife and child are here, i dont care."

Rather than...

"sure heres the energy units... by the way, the dude who took your family is now living under a bridge."

this could all be so simple.

the fact is, substances that we love are hard to get in quanitity and purity because noone is willing to join in the effort to get them back.

this is the devils game i think.

 

 

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I would not go near this especially as a executive member.

I had a quick look through your pdf file on the association and it looks like a legal mind field. You will need to have a lawyer write your constitution and from what I just read anything that the association publishes would also need to be checked by a lawyer.

I hope you also understand that the association and its executive committee can be found legally liable and sued even if the entity is set up as company (PTY LTD)

I would also think the chances of being charged for criminal offences are very high due to the way you want this to be set up.

If you take an illegal substance and you die the law will try and track down the person that supplied you that substance. The legal ramifications of a person (licensed practitioner) and the association supplying and or administering an illegal substance and a person dying will be massive.

If you want this to be a lobby group for drug reform I think you missed the mark. If you want this to be a association for shamans then what does the association offer a shaman other than documenting illegal practices.

You actually want people to document criminal activities

Cheers

Got

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I agree, i realy like the idea.

I just can't get past the idea of Reptyle pushing it.

I would like to see this done, but in a responsible manner & you have not proved yourself responsible Reptyle.

Making fake bombs & shooting up DMT in parliament house is not the publicity I think most AUShamans want.

Yes is heart is in the right place, what about his mind?

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and imagine there are other logos with different designs and colours and stuff...

 

Oh, and while I'm replying, I should give my feedback on these...even though I don't think there's much chance they'll be used for anything ;)

ASA1: The problem with this is that it looks too 'motorsportsy'. I'm not sure if there's a particular car logo that looks similar, or if it's just the general feel, but I don't think it suits shamanism.

ASA2: Similar problem, though not as bad. I think this one is more workable for the purpose. Perhaps with a more Earthy done instead of the orange?

ASA3: The colour reminds me of the Ardbeg logo. I think green is a great colour to have in the design, but I'm not sure about being so overt. Also, if this was used as a letterhead or something, you would have to consider how it would look with a white background instead of green. I think it would work well as a watermark or something. Also, if this were to be the public face of ethnobotany/shamanism in australia, then I don't know if the serpentine symbolism is the way to go.

ASA4: Funky, kind of reminds me of a skateboard logo. The snake symbolism bothers me again. This one, I guess could be inverted (chromatically) to serve as a letterhead.

General: The first two are my favourite. They are both very modern and elegant, and I feel they would be very unthreatening. I do feel the first one is wrong, for reasons I mentioned above, so that would make the second one my favourite. The third one misses the mark imo. The fourth one looks good, but I feel it looks too trendy and may not be taken as seriously by the people who we should hope would take the association seriously. The problem with all these logos imo is that they don't seem to represent (with the possible exception of the third one) what I think most "shamans" are. I think you would be hard pressed to find a person who identifies strongly as a shaman, yet feels comfortable being under the banner of, for example, the ASA1 logo. This would be another reason to have an alliance of people under a broader net than just 'shamans'.

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343.jpg

The triple trinity of heart, human & heaven

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your gettin the point... i dont want to take control of doing this... i have my own methods of interacting...

i want the shamanic community to get itself sorted. those with the skilll and the ability who are otherwise just sitting there on the cpmputer doing nothing should take a lead.

if its illegal and wrong... dont do it.

if its illegal and right... stand up and defend the right.

if your not doing that... then u r living in fear and allowing others to be persecuted...

as far as ya'll discussing my personality think what you like but the truth is i have done more in the last two years to help the substance liberation cause than any other person in the last 30 years... you may notknow what, or have access to such things but its out there... and i have always used my real names and i will continue to do so. because even if i spend the next 60 years in jail i didnt spend my time doing nothing about the problems i pray may be solved.

i want to be a licensed practitioner.

the only thing holding me back is the fact that if it were the case, the substandard lifestyle of the rest of the plant drug users would open the floodway to so many problems its not worth it for 'the powers that be'... for that i can only stare in shame at the state of our culture...

u might think that because this ASA oranisation has its roots in me calling all ya'll on ure inactivity and in some senses being agonistic... i dont see that a problem... nor do i think that you have any legs to stand on in judgeing the example i set for others to follow...

if people stood up and actually went to the places of power and made their presence known... we would be dealt with alot more seriously than we are...

for everyone who doesnt have the wisdom or intelligence to submit information and create organisation through which to interact.. please... goto parliament house in the iddle of question time and demonstrate the potential consequences of ignoring this issue.

as far as legal issues and opening ourselves up to being sued... that is a risk i am willing to take... i do not have any assests in my own name and i think that is the only smart way to be as a human being... i am not afraid of stating my beliefs and defending myself in court which as some of you know i have done succesfully twice.

as far as i am concerned in the fact that this regards me... shamans who dont hope to heal people and society by doing batttle with evil spirits are infact not shamans at all but clown and entertainers... differrnt kettle of salmon.

i will let you know when i recieve the ABN and the further progress of the work.

you can be involved or not... either way, at some point i or someone else will succeeed in this work and the consequences will present themselves...

personally if i succeed duties will be paid to grow the plants i use as my totems... if those duties arent paid... you will not sow and you will not reap.

the best part is that those people who are involved will know the in's and out;s of everything that the aussie shaman community is about, where they are, who they are, and everything about them in general and on that fateful day there will be turmoil for the unbelievers and those that denied the truth and the way will be punished with fires that will burn their precious plants to ashes.

i said earier that i am a tyranous dictator... the only way to usurp my cause, that being to save and restore the sacred treatment of my plant friends, is to do it yourself and install your own system of regulation. without that... when i do succeed it will be under my direction and the direction of the most conservative of the priestly beings...

holier than thou... for in birth the unholy nature of those beings was ensured.

they knew not the prctices of purification, they indulges in the putrid flesh of the dead, they indulged in intoxication and it made them lazy.

they forsook their brothers in times of need and left them to be ravaged by pigs and dogs. their eyes did not see and their ears did not hear, they percieved only the foul and bore witness only to the corrupt, they felt hated by the one who loved them and loved the one who hated them and forever after this would be there lot. they were truly overcome by ignorance and the pain of the self they had hidden beneath the filth of their desires.

may God find resolution for i am now and tomorrow a just man and have naught but the entire earth at my disposal. i have cast my blessing upon the great work of saving humanity and its glorious abode and been ridiculed... and so it is confirmed that the denier shall remain as it was an eternity ago.

when 1 can thouroughly destroy 100 and 100 a whole nation, heaven shall be within reach... and now it is so.

i have a lifetime to devote to the work and worship of the one true light of all things, the most holy...

those who live in filth have but a single day in compare, though this they will forever fail to understand.

may the angels be raised up to bring delight to the hearers of the ageless teaching in the form of the final judgement.

Omnomnomnom...

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as far as legal issues and opening ourselves up to being sued... that is a risk i am willing to take... i do not have any assests in my own name and i think that is the only smart way to be as a human being... i am not afraid of stating my beliefs and defending myself in court which as some of you know i have done succesfully twice.

This may be the case for you but you are calling on people to put there names down in executive positions which puts them at risk.

As I said no one should put there name to this without the association as a whole looked at from a legal stand point. The constitution must be written or at lest read and signed off by a lawyer. In my opinion all other documents should have the same.

This is not a gardening association you are wanting to form. This is a legal mine field for all that are associated with it.

Cheers

Got

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thank you very much for the logo critique, i appreciate it. they were rushed and it shows i think.

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you but you are calling on people to put there names down in executive positions which puts them at risk.

 

Actually i was "calling on people" to assist me in understanding the way in which they would like to be represented if that was to be the case...

i asked for idea's regarding formats for consitutions and originally siply for a logo design...

if you understand any of what i have been saying, i am saying that i do not want to be reposnible for creating this entity... i would like others to take the initiative and move forward with its creation... somewhere along the way, people have decided once again that i want to be some form of cult leader... and that i am trying to convince everyone to follow my way... which is quite the opposite to what i am doing... i am simnply requesting information...

once the association is formed, either by others, in which case i need ot worry at all, or by myself, people will be invited to take positions within it as member of commitee or otherwise.

The association would do nothing illegal other than act as a place for people who share similar interests in the future of the shamanic tradition to comunicate and meet and effect a collective goal.

It will not be selling illicit substances merely recommending how they best be regulated, employing the force of the collective.

The groups in Austrlia who are involved in using psychoactive drugs are alrady well known by the gov't and are allowed to continue due to lack of material evidence. That situation will not change.

Merely admitting that you participate in the shamanic tradition does not incriminate anyone.

so i shall continue on in the hope that this thread may evolve back into something useful.

what limits should the bylaws entail? n e outstanding idea's?

So an ogranisation can have many members though only requires one delegate to be registered to gain membership.

and similarly with a partnership... only one person needs to be registered.

comments?

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lots of great logos!!

Any news on legal advice reptyle?

Would be great to have a 4th year law student or such to get on board.

Its all good defending your rights in court and not having assets but it would be stupid to begin without a "legal guy" on the team...

I can donate anon bullet proof vps and stick up a CMS to get things rolling if you like?

I can stick every submited logo up with a voting system for people to vote... can regester anon domain any tld with btc to if required...

Can do some "volanteer work" to raise money for lawyer maybe? We all have many seedlings / cuttings and pants, can ebay them off to raise funds... many options...

I dont realy know what you require at this stage???

Would it not be better to have all interested party's on a skype conference to sort "bylaws" out?

would need to recruit like minded qualified individuals with initial skills to bring, ie: law, admininstration, PR, dev's... etc

I would really like to see a law student get involved if any are here own up now, would be good to build form solid foundations.

Maybe start with a solid Agenda/Mission plan?

someone needs to step up to the plate and its obviouse its you.....

You started this, a great idea and all, but please finish it ;) myself and others will help where ever we can.

Can you link original thread so i can get a idea of the mission statment? really lets start with a lay mans plan....

"to unite and regulate independent shaman practitioners of australia..."?

Edited by vual

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I really don't think ur going to have much luck with this. People who have bonded with plants/nature don't really need to pay a mambership and be part of an organization. My organization is the soil in my garden, it signed me up as a life member many generations ago.

 

the hobbits must unite to protect the shire!

 

omnomomnomomnomomnom

when i met you at ega my first impression was

"Is this kid old enough to be wearing a white robe?

"Is that wooden spike through his ear sterilized?(wait oh that brown shmear looks like iodine phew ) :)

"Is he wearing a turban?"\

"Cool bus you got there mun"

"for a young guy he's got a lot to say.............shoosh can't he see i'm in the middle of a heavy trip here around the fire??"

i rarely agree with anyone-lest myself :rolleyes: .............but that shouldn't stop you reptyle from believing in yourself..........

i hope you find what you are searching for

GK shouldn't be used to equate this conversation ...................2 different kettles of fish imo.........

oh btw ,that doesn't mean i agree with him either....................but each to their own

omnomomnomomnomomnom

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thanks for the comment ethereal drifter... the wood was acacia maidenii and the anti bacterial was tumeric...

in the same sense that i may be "too young" to wear a white robe some people around the way are to old not o be... you would think that if the psychedelic experience actually had any benefit that it would be niticeable in the way such "elders" express themselves... i have never known this to be the case.

ii have my reason for attributing this lack of identiyiable benefit moreso to cultural flaws than problems inherent in the usefulness of the substances themselves... the general rejection of religiousity; used in the sense on maintaining tradition and repetitive action fr the sake of empowering certain ideas rather than chrisitainity islam hinduism etc.

my expression of my values through my apparel ultimatly allows others upon first glance to immediately apprehend the style of consciousness i should hope to emit... i want people to be respectful and come together in a serious way awar of the influence that their own personal imagery hs on others...

i have often felt deeply assulted by the images on some peoples tshirts, the fact that they wear brand names that are absolutely unnaceptable given the interdependence such clothing entails in regards to human and animal suffrings... and in general the lack of peronal hygeine some people seem to have...

i sometimes wonder why the beings who have been to the "other side" and witnessed the style of the being there do not emulate such, in the hope of merging completely with them, as far as i am aware, this is the shamanic technique and is obvious when assessing the style of all ancient traditions.

as for the practical aspects of my personal choice, they are suitable for long term wear and harsh conditions... thereis no noncy fancy dress aspect to it hahaha.... although there is definately a place for that.

we are dancrs in the dance of life, and every moment is as important as the peak experience. be ever redy for the moment of judgement.

once again however, this has comee back down to me... i can go on all day about myself... and i am sure that is interesting for some... but for me, right now i am interested in peoples idea regarding the AuShaman Associated group and what people would like to see.

vual... you have shown considerable personal interest and i am so grateful that you have shone as a light in amongst the darkness illuminating the way of the righteous man... this stage one - information collection and logo design will continue for a short while... once it has reached a point... we will draw together the interested players and act accordingly... thanks you for seriosu enthusiasm and attitude.

back to the topic at hand...

suggestions for by-laws... purposes, publications membership application requirements?

?

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using fear to get people to follow you, never seen that done before...

 

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