Jump to content
The Corroboree

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Dreamwalker.

help carburettor problems? stored car won't start, any idea's?

Recommended Posts

I have a Hyundai ~20 or so years old, standard old type Carburettor (not fuel injected) ~100,000 km, runs well, never any problems.

I stored it for 18 mths, but now it won't start. Tested the petrol in the tank by dropping a cap into the carb, nothing. So I dumped $60 worth of gas. left just a little in the tank, ie on empty, warning light a flashing and refilled with new gas (tested/dropped a cap of new gas into the carb and the engine ran for a few seconds till the gas was consumed). So it should work, but it won't start. Towed it and it occasionally would run for 20 seconds or so, only to cut out. Fuel is getting to the carb.

My guess is the carburettor may need to be dismantled and cleaned and refitted. Yuk!

I'd be bummed out after spending more money on a carburettor kit and spending hours doing the job only to find it wasn't the problem.

I'm hoping some one might have a better idea of what's gone wrong than me....Any suggestions welcomed.

My guess is that the 10% bio-ethanol now added to todays mix is what caused the problem, as I have stored it for long periods in the past and it would start on the first turn over, The car lives in a garage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checked the plugs and leads?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checked the plugs and leads?

only quickly as it tends to run when new fuel is added to the carb, if the electrics were down, then it would probably not run/ignite at all when fuel was added. But I'm no mechanic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First look at the minor things, i.e. change your fuel filter, it may be inline in engine bay or at the tank, usually the filter can fill with gummy gunk, so i would change that first, its not yourcarb i'm betting, but once your filters been changesd, Spray some carb cleaner through it, get it running and throttle carb, from the engine bay and spray more cleaner, it will flood and cough and spit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

see if it will start with a bit of aerostart. If it does you def know its fuel if it dont then you need to look elsewhere.

Somtimes after storage a valve will stick open and make em hard to start. after starting on ether theyll free up and run

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somtimes after storage a valve will stick open and make em hard to start. after starting on ether theyll free up and run

Any luck yet? Have you tapped all round the head evenly with a mallet to stop that sticking? Like, don't flog it or anything, but a good solid tap won't hurt it

And did you clean out the float bowl before starting it the first time? Fuel in the float bowl can go horrible after a few months. Always clean the float out carefully before starting anything for the first time in a few months

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any luck yet? Have you tapped all round the head evenly with a mallet to stop that sticking? Like, don't flog it or anything, but a good solid tap won't hurt it

And did you clean out the float bowl before starting it the first time? Fuel in the float bowl can go horrible after a few months. Always clean the float out carefully before starting anything for the first time in a few months

clean out the float bowl before starting it the first time? ...

No I screwed up big time on that...The tapping with a mallet on the head and cleaning my float bowl will be the first things I do, I have spent a good 8 hours messing with it so far, It will probably be a few days before I have an opportunity to attack it again, This weekend I guess. Really good advice . Thanks very much :)

I suspect I will need a new gasket for the float bowl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you try the aerosart ?

If it were mine I'd check all the plugs and leads ect first, then once I know I have a good spark I'd hit it with aerostart.

Most of the time I clean a blocked carby with either aerostart or hand spray bottle with metho or fuel in it and a little trick I learned years ago.

Take off the air filter and get someone to crank the engine over while you pump the aerostart/ spray primer into it. Have the person cranking the engine hold their foot flat to the floor and don't pump it. Then get the revs up as high as you can like that (don't take the engine to redline though) and cover the throat of the carby with your hands. The idea is to build up a massive vacuum for a split second and then quickly release your hands as the engine sounds like it's about to stall. The time taken to cover and uncover the carby with your hands is about a second or so, it happens quite quick and to be effective you have to get your hands back off the carby before the engine stalls.

This sucks a massive rush of air through and the extra vacuum sucks any shit out of the needle and seat and jets. I've used this method many times and saved all the hassle of taking the carby off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you try the aerosart ?

thanks Sally...I never knew this, its really good advice.

I have never used aerosart (or similar). I'm rural but will pick up some this Friday when in town.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you try the aerosart ?

If it were mine I'd check all the plugs and leads ect first, then once I know I have a good spark I'd hit it with aerostart.

Most of the time I clean a blocked carby with either aerostart or hand spray bottle with metho or fuel in it and a little trick I learned years ago.

Take off the air filter and get someone to crank the engine over while you pump the aerostart/ spray primer into it. Have the person cranking the engine hold their foot flat to the floor and don't pump it. Then get the revs up as high as you can like that (don't take the engine to redline though) and cover the throat of the carby with your hands. The idea is to build up a massive vacuum for a split second and then quickly release your hands as the engine sounds like it's about to stall. The time taken to cover and uncover the carby with your hands is about a second or so, it happens quite quick and to be effective you have to get your hands back off the carby before the engine stalls.

This sucks a massive rush of air through and the extra vacuum sucks any shit out of the needle and seat and jets. I've used this method many times and saved all the hassle of taking the carby off.

...and thanks to you we now all have a bookmarked place to come to when our vehicles are in trouble. That's a really good description!

I'd still clean the float bowl out first if it's been stored tho, it's easy to forget. But I have no idea how accessable float bowls are on cars. On bikes it's a 2 minute job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...and thanks to you we now all have a bookmarked place to come to when our vehicles are in trouble. That's a really good description!

I'd still clean the float bowl out first if it's been stored tho, it's easy to forget. But I have no idea how accessable float bowls are on cars. On bikes it's a 2 minute job.

Older cars had very accessible float bowls (hung like t. :) ). I would have to remove the whole carb from the top of the inlet manifold. Then really dismantle it, as the float looks internal. The carb looks more like a 160mm square box, with lots of tubes, 2 tubes taking the fuel in, just above the filter. Which I removed, and the fuel is getting to the carb ok.1 tube going back to the fuel tank, I guess to prevent air locks. Possibly more than 1 vacuum tube.

When I get stumped like this and the obvious solution fails, I take time out, mull the options and seek advice, Which I thank you all very much for. Otherwise I may go ballistic and sledge hammers only compound the problem lol. :uzi:

At least it doesn't have a computer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...and thanks to you we now all have a bookmarked place to come to when our vehicles are in trouble. That's a really good description!

I'd still clean the float bowl out first if it's been stored tho, it's easy to forget. But I have no idea how accessable float bowls are on cars. On bikes it's a 2 minute job.

I think we'd all agree that's the way it should be done, my suggestion is really just a last ditch effort to try and coax it into action especially if you don't have the tools on hand to do the job properly.

If it does fire up like I suggested a fuel system cleaner could help to clean it out and make it run a bit smoother.

A carby kit doesn't cost much and you can test/adjust the float level while you are at it.

Often with a car that been sitting unused half the problem is purging all the all fuel from the bowl and the fuel lines. Running it with aerostart or a spray primer can be a good way to pump all the old stale fuel through the system. As the engine turns over the fuel pump pumps all the old crap through and gets fresh fuel to the carby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just an update, I was wrong it is a Throttle Body Injector (Hyundai accent 1995) not a traditional carb,

Looking at pic's, and inside the Throttle Body Injector (carb thingy) it looks like the injector is right on top and spits into the carb, directly to the manifold inlet. The fuel is getting to the injector, good pressure, but I think the injector is a little gundged up inside. It will turn over/fire for a sec or 2. So I figure its just not getting enough fuel into the inlet. The problem area is between the inlet fuel pipe and injector outlet, about a 30mm long problem area.

So I think what I will try next is some liquid INJECTOR CLEANER FOR PETROL ENGINES.

So never use old petrol,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that's a totally differrent kettle of fish then.

It could just be a symptom of a blocked/partially blocked injector but there are a few other things that could give that set of symptoms too.

It could be a faulty signal from the PCM or a faulty MAP/MAF sensor. It could even be a bad resistence value at the cold start sensor. I'd find how to check that model vehicles' computer for error codes and go from there.

If you are cranking it over with the air filter off, try to make sure all the vacuum hoses are connected to the throttle body so the MAP/MAF sensor can operate. If the vacuum lines aren't connected the computer cannot regulate the fuel mix, so the engine won't run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bloody thing still refuses to start.

I see you posted that ^ in another thread, simple mistake I have a habit of sticking things in the wrong hole myself.

Sometimes a car that has been sitting unused can develop corrosion on the connectors where plugs and spades ect connect to the pins they fit onto. If that happens the ECU can get a faulty signal and send the wrong signal back to the fuel injector. This very common for cars in coastal areas where the sea air drifts in but can happen anywhere because of the cheap aluminium connectors they use in most cars. Even an intermittent faulty earth to the ECU can wreak havok and cause all sorts of problems.

I'd unplug all the relevant connectors one by one and inspect them for corrosion, sometimes just unplugging them and then plugging them back in a few times can make a good contact and fix the problem. It would probably be better to clean any corrosion off when you have them disconnected and then smear a bit of vaseline on them to establish a good connection. Just make sure any vaseline stays isolated to the individual pins/connections, you don't want to create any current bridges with excess vaso, so use it very sparingly.

So do a bit of investigation, clean the connections and try again. If it still won't start google how to get error codes from the ECU and see what that turns up.

Some cars need an LED to be attached to the computer to show error codes, others display the result with blinking lights on the dash somewhere.

Generally speaking the electronics are quite rugged and reliable these days, it's all the aluminium connections that tend to cause most problems in cases like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe starting at the beginning again might help to narrow it down too.

Pull off a plug cap and put in an old spark plug. sit it on a ground like some bare alloy on the head or rocker cover where you can see it from the drivers seat then crank the engine and see if you can see it spark. There are only two things that make a motor run, fuel and spark. so if it has spark. Pull the fuel line off where its easy, Maybe a return line at the end of the injectors or maybe even the fuel rail feedjust make sure its not after the regulator. Turn the ignition to on and see if fuel comes out. it should spray everywhere. if it doesnt you know you have a fuel supply problem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see you posted that ^ in another thread, simple mistake I have a habit of sticking things in the wrong hole myself.

 

Maybe starting at the beginning again might help to narrow it down too.

Thanks Guys

Hi Sally. I didn't mis-post, I hit a nerve, by suggesting that Holden and GM are one of the same and as a consequence of such sacrilege :) , my mechanic skills, or lack of, came under fire LOL

I added the injector cleaner the other day to a half filled tank of fresh gas. When I attempt to start the car, I can hear the pump circulating the fuel. I was hoping that after a few days of turning it over that the cleaner will reach the injector.

She starts for a few seconds only on the initial start, If I wait ~1/4 a minute, she'll start again for a few seconds. Its like initially there is enough fuel there, but once its burnt, it doesn't seem to be getting enough to continue running. I'm planning on trying to tow start it tomorrow or Wednesday, but I suspect it will not make any difference.

I will certainly clean my connectors and re-check the applicable fuses before I tow it, thanks for that.

Hi EpH, I would normally check the spark as you suggested, but the caps are on ridiculously tight,(unbelievably tight) capped all the way to the head, and I'm a bit concerned that in attempting to remove them, I may damage them and compound the problem, as it seems to fire/turnover ok, even longer when towed, I'm hoping they are ok.

I haven't got a scanning tool and there's no read out on the dash, I hope its not a computer problem, I still suspect the injector is blocked a little, I may need to figure out how to remove it for testing and cleaning or replacement. I have watched some really informative utubes but I haven't found one that related to my design. Modern injectors are lot more easy to access and clean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If its starting then dieing it could also just be propper flooded from messing with it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know jack about cars but had a similar problem with and old Toyota Corona. I would only move the car when ever I moved houses and would always start first go and run well. After doing this for about 5 years I decided to register it and the bitch wouldn't start :(

After replacing the fuel, carby and fuel filter she would start some times but also turn off at times, even while highway driving.

I removed the fuel tank from the car, gave it a good clean, replaced the fuel filter again and was all happy driving from there.

If its not to big of job, maybe worth a shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, according to http://www.ehow.com/about_5371953_fuel-filter-located-hyundai-accent.html

Where Is My Fuel Filter?

The Fuel filter for your Hyundai Accent is located under the seat cushion of your rear seat. Push your fingers between the seat cushion and the back of the seat. Pull the seat cushion up, toward you and simply remove the seat. The fuel filter is thus gazing at you, probably no larger than a half-dollar.

Danger! Danger!

Before you actually make any effort to remove the fuel filter, it is important to understand your fuel filter works under pressure and that if you don't relieve the pressure in the fuel lines, you could find yourself literally making one explosive mistake. So, it is imperative you relieve the pressure before attempting to switch out fuel filters. You do this by consulting your vehicle's manual for the fuel pump relay switch, or, fuel pump fuse. Start the engine first and then cut the switch off on the relay, or, pull out the fuse. The result of this action will stall the vehicle. In other words, it'll quit running and all the normal pressure in the fuel lines will drop. This is an ideal opportunity to get a rag, two open-ended wrenches, and a flat head screwdriver, and to let the engine cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes fuel can gum up i.e. the residual bitumen in the fuel settles out to the bottom. The fuel pick up also gets settling bitumen when first restarted that bitumen can and often is sucked into your fuel filterand clogs the element. This can happen even with cars that aren't left sitting. Bad fuel can clog fuel filters and cost many people fortunes on mechanics esp. Unscrupulous mechanix. Sally's adviceis good but spend the twentybucks on your fuel filterfirst even if itisn't the problem it should be replaced, like i said in my first post start at the basics, you have said you have spark you are saying you have fuel but if the filter is clogged the fuel can'tbesucked through, and just cos you removed a fuel line is not an indication of peak flow. A side note to this is if your fuel filter isclogged and you don't replace it it can cause your fuel pump to fail and then it isn't a twenty dollargamble that might fix a problem, its a twenty dollar gamble that may cost hundreds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, according to http://www.ehow.com/about_5371953_fuel-filter-located-hyundai-accent.html

Where Is My Fuel Filter?

The Fuel filter for your Hyundai Accent is located under the seat cushion of your rear seat. Push your fingers between the seat cushion and the back of the seat. Pull the seat cushion up, toward you and simply remove the seat. The fuel filter is thus gazing at you, probably no larger than a half-dollar.

Danger! Danger!

thanks for that, My filter is under the bonnet, only 200mm from the carb thingy, I removed it and replaced it with a tube ie fuel direct from tank/pump to carb, in the hope that it was blocked, but got exactly the same result.........starts for a few seconds on first start, then stops, if I wait 1/4 minute it will start and run for a few seconds then stop and so on...so close, its just feels like it wants to go, I'm still blaming a clogged injector.

Unless there's another filter, I'll check the line again tomorrow, under the back seat/under the car.

My fuel line runs under the car, seems like a really dangerous design to have the fuel line inside the cab, but I will check just to be sure, probably a later model design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah it may be a country thing, like a design for europe and another for compliance else where, I cant say for certain, but my guess would be ( looking at a few different websites that there is a filter closer to the tank, it may be under the rear seat as they indicate or it may strapped to the chassis as with commodores? Hyundai is a very big company, they produce evrything - just about and in my experience pretty reliable. Their entry into Australian market was plagued withissues mainly the injectors but they ironed the wrinkles out pretty quickly and sorted their shit, europe and korea gets a lot colder than Aus.

Chase your fuel lines all the way back to the tank, i haven't had any probs with hyundais like you are describing, but with commodores yes, and they werebuilt here but you remove and replace that filter black shit flows out , i usually let 100 ml estimated flow through the line before i hook up thenew filter. After the filter should be clean enough and i wouldn't normally drain the line but in your case , Iw ould blow it out or at least let it drain and then blow air through if possible.

I think hillbilly suggested checking your lines flow which is a good idea, You have kicked it over but it stalls, i would be pullin out your plugs check for fouling, replace if needs. If your plugs are fouled she wont run proper and can stall as you describe, I don't think its spark but it wont hurt to check plugsand leads and timing. If you still have no love i would head down sally's road looking at the sensors and that will get expensive...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for that, My filter is under the bonnet, only 200mm from the carb thingy, I removed it and replaced it with a tube ie fuel direct from tank/pump to carb, in the hope that it was blocked, but got exactly the same result.........starts for a few seconds on first start, then stops, if I wait 1/4 minute it will start and run for a few seconds then stop and so on...so close, its just feels like it wants to go, I'm still blaming a clogged injector.

Unless there's another filter, I'll check the line again tomorrow, under the back seat/under the car.

My fuel line runs under the car, seems like a really dangerous design to have the fuel line inside the cab, but I will check just to be sure, probably a later model design.

Yeah i don't think it will be a clogged injector, is it direct injection or in a rail?? How many injectors?? 1 failed in four she would still run just a bit rougher. With the filterunder the seat it appears to be an access hatch, not the actual filter or line, so you lift seat out undo 3 or four screws and remove hatchplate, (guesswork here) access the filter/ change..

If you eliminate all the minor things first you might have to spend a little but when you start with major things you can end up spending more than you need to and you could end up needing a mechanic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×