HEIMIA POISONING

[Francois le Danque]

okay well i'm very interested in heimia or sinicuiche...and i was reading the reports on erowid and i found something very disturbing!

a surprisingly large number of people reported extreme side effects of heimia....one guy said he was in constant pain all over for hours and couldn't move. BAD! however this guy said he had allergies to grass and such....

so i was wondering, have any of you experienced severe negative effects after ingesting heimia? any ideas on what causes them?

I should note that most trippers experienced no ill effects.....maybe it's just all of these people were allergic to it? maybe it was something to do with the way it was dried...i've read that heimia is supposed to be used when fresh, and 3/5 people who reacted badly used dried foliage ordered off the net....perhaps it has something to do with the method it was dried, ie with the application of heat or something. maybe heat activates a previously inactive alkaloid that is responsible for side effects when dried but not fresh...

anyway any comments wouold be appreciated, as i'm very interested in finding out what's going on here!

-FRANK!

[SaBReT00tH]

I've drunk heimia numerous times and also had extract of it and never even experienced any positive active effects let alone negative ones.

[Rev]

lol

yeah i think ive had effect but its not far off placebo

too hard to tell as yet

Ill give it more goes tho as ive found Lettuce, leonurus, Calea and argemone to be effective well beyond placebo

i guess theres no such thing as a mild hallucinogen...all the minor plants fit into the stimulating, relaxing, inebriating, clarifying etc etc et 'Mild MJ substitute" LOl MJ is the gatekeeper between this group and the true phantastica

no ill effects to date

sure they id'd their material?

[Francois le Danque]

im pretty sure it would have been heimia...they ordered it off the internet..then again of course there's no way to be sure...but the fact that several different people suffered similar effects shows that it's unlikely it was a fake, unless it's commonly used instead, but then why would they bother? bad for business.

[Rev]

The big ethno suppliers often buy in large amounts from the same international suppliers

The fake Kra$tom scandal highlighted that

So we cant really be sure.

I saw a batch of trade heimea from O/s and it did look different ie very long large leaves compared to what most home grown material looks like

i guess all will come to light in time

[apothecary]

So we cant really be sure.

I saw a batch of trade heimea from O/s and it did look different ie very long large leaves compared to what most home grown material looks like

Hey Rev, when I first met smogs, I was looking at his garden and asked what a plant was, I didn't believe him when he said Heimia as the one I had just recieved from Gom looked completely different...his one had very long large leaves

Definitely sure it's a Heimia because I saw the flowers (like little suns! :D)...I have no idea what caused the long leaves or stopped them but it might mean the trade material was actually the real deal

[Auxin]

Heimia myrtifolia is very commonly mislabled as H. salicifolia. Myrtifolia has smaller leaves, somewhat smaller flowers, and round seed pods.

I looked at those negative trip reports at one point too. Many of the people had used dried internet purchased foliage in large amounts, and from my questioning of a few of them they may have unwittingly been subjest to dehydration. Almost undoubtedly the producers dont 'activation dry' the foliage, at least not intentionally... and who knows what pesticides may have been used on commercial stuff

[Francois le Danque]

All good points, thanks for the feedback.

How exactly does one "activation dry" heimia? i've heard this mentioned a couple of times but i don't know what it means...

is there a chance that heimia myrtifolia was passed off as salicifolia all five times and that it could be responsible for negative effects while salicifolia is not?

I also like the sound of that dehydration/pesticide idea, good thinking! sounds quite plausible.

[planthelper]

activation means to pile the dry heimia leaves to a heap and to let them ferment for a while.

we owe those findings to tst tantra, so check out tantras old posts to get the detailed info.

[indigo264nm]

The big ethno suppliers often buy in large amounts from the same international suppliers

The fake Kra$tom scandal highlighted that

So we cant really be sure.

I saw a batch of trade heimea from O/s and it did look different ie very long large leaves compared to what most home grown material looks like

i guess all will come to light in time

Is there a filter on certain words for this site or are there new forum rules I should be aware of from my two weeks absent???

[Francois le Danque]

maybe he just did it by accident...kratom?

[indigo264nm]

^^^ Not after Torstens announcement on n1cot1ana seeds

Edited March 30, 2006 by -=IndigoSunrise=-

[Francois le Danque]

i still don't get it....

[Rev]

it was no accident

part messing with using T's method - finger in the dyke for this site but good idea with Nic.

but mainly cos the Kra$tom saga was such a $cam you expect it written as such to appear as $pam

[Thelema]

Heimia is vastly potentiated by the antidepressant tricyclic amitryptaline. Merely smoking a joint of it (heimia) will propel you into a zigzaggy space all over your body, and vision goes yellow. One comes out of it about 5 minutes later thinking that you were just thinking something profound, but the thought escapes memory.

[foolsbreath]

Do you have to have been taking the tricyclic for a while or can you take one periodically before dosing with hemia?

Some people have greatly increased dreaming with amiltryptaline, some have disturbing nightmares, it affects the subconscious in a mighty powerful way

[Auxin]

Heimia is vastly potentiated by the antidepressant tricyclic amitryptaline.

Quite interesting.. have you experimented with botanical antidepressant/anxiolytic heimia admixtures? I dont trust synthetic neuropharmaceuticals.

Its said TCAs act primarially as norepinephrine and serotonin reuptake inhibitors (sometimes just the former) so possibly Sceletium tortuosum mixed in with the Heimia ciggie would give a quick little jolt of presynaptic norepinephrine?

Anyone heard reliable accounts of Heimia being smoked while on MDMA?

[Alice]

Heimia is vastly potentiated by the antidepressant tricyclic amitryptaline. Merely smoking a joint of it (heimia) will propel you into a zigzaggy space all over your body, and vision goes yellow. One comes out of it about 5 minutes later thinking that you were just thinking something profound, but the thought escapes memory.

do all tricyclics act in a similar way? i'm curious to know if other TCA's, particularly dothiepin, have or would be expected to have a similar synergy with heimia?

[Auxin]

oh btw, amitryptaline doesnt just boost Heimia. I've seen it boost marijuana so intensely that it resulted in incoherency and even delerium... seen that too many times

I could get amitryptaline, but wouldnt. I'm too biased against that drug.

amitryptaline

Alice, if you know anyone who tries dothiepin + Heimia maby report if they saw dothiepin potentiate cannabis as well... one more clue to the neurochemical mechanisms perhaps ...but I'd avoid trying those combos while alone.

amitryptaline

Edited April 21, 2006 by Auxin

[Alice]

Alice, if you know anyone who tries dothiepin + Heimia maby report if they saw dothiepin potentiate cannabis as well... one more clue to the neurochemical mechanisms perhaps ...but I'd avoid trying those combos while alone.

amitryptaline

this person no longer smokes cannabis, but is interested in trying heimia, i'll keep you updated if i hear any interesting reports...

back to the original question.... the one time i have had heimia (tea made from dried herb,, maybe 3 or 4 heaped teaspoons i think) i experienced quite definate stomach pains... nothing extreme, but still enough to note it. lasted maybe an hour or so. have not tried it again, gonna wait til i get some fresh herb first.

also, apart from the stomach pains no other effects (good or bad) were noted.

[vapour]

i hope it's ok if i drop in on this conversation...

my experience with heimia involved a 10g infusion of dried leaf from a trusted source. the effect was strongly purgative. could it have something to do with acetylcholine? could people who are naturally deficient in this kind of neurotransmitter (mainly forgetful self-medicating tobacco smokers) have a strong almost nicotinic reaction to this plant? i wish i'd paid more attention to my pulse and salivation and mood. all i can remember is feeling very sick.

[Auxin]

the one time i have had heimia (tea made from dried herb,, maybe 3 or 4 heaped teaspoons i think) i experienced quite definate stomach pains... nothing extreme, but still enough to note it. lasted maybe an hour or so. have not tried it again, gonna wait til i get some fresh herb first.

also, apart from the stomach pains no other effects (good or bad) were noted.

Let me guess- you bought it? Your report mirrors dozens I've read where people bought the stuff, the vendors have a bad supplier.

Maby hit someone here up for activation-dried H. salicifolia or H. myrtifolia

[Alice]

Let me guess- you bought it? Your report mirrors dozens I've read where people bought the stuff, the vendors have a bad supplier.

yes, i bought it. i have purchased various herbs from this person, and they have always been, in my opinion, very good quality. i am a happy customer, and will continue to buy from this supplier. but i think for heimia the next step for me is to harvest my own, and try fresh herb.

it seems very few people have had success with heimia...

anyone got a tried and proven method for preparation and dosage?

ahh, just read the ref to tst tantra's posts, will go look now

[-YT-]

Definatly check out Tantras posts on heimia - fermenting the leaf and also the sun prep process etc all very valuable info on heimia. I have tried both hemia resin balls and the milky yellow infusion both with definate affects a definate brightening and echancement of colours and a very relaxed kind of feeling like a sense of well being. I believe Hiemia is a somewhat underated ethneogen its has alot of potential being one of the Aztec Sacred plants and all, Also its synergy with other ethnos is amazing and something that should be investigated in more depth.

Heres some exerts of Tantras posts for you guys to check out

"i am a believer in the sun processing of heimia.

in the traditional method,branches are cut and allowed to wilt for an

hour or so.i did this by spreading the branches out.

i have now found that if the branches are placed in a

heap,fermentation will occur.the heap is turned inside out

occasionally.

the final result ,may take a couple days to dry fully,is dried leaves

with a lovely sweet aromatic smell.a similar smell to the traditional

brew.

these dried leaves can be used to make a traditional brew,which

ferments well.the brew can be strained and reduced .balls can be

formed with the extract.sublingual use is recommended.effects can be

felt from a ball about the size of a split pea.these balls are

significantly more active than that from a water ext of normal dried

leaves.

the 'full' dose of these balls has not been guaged yet".

t s t .

"...as most of you would know i've been making active heimia products

for a while now,once i had the fermented leaf i always got a good

result.

but my brews while active were not palatable,so i made the pellets.it

was probably more the slimy texture that the bitterness.these brews

were translucent amber in appearance.

there has been some success written up at the yahoo forum,and so i

decided to return to my brewing experiments.

i had assumed an alcohol was formed in the fermentation proccess and

the alkaloids would disolve in that.

in fact a tea is made and this tea is then fermented !

because of my assumption i thought that if i left the leaf in the

brew would be stronger.

this was my main mistake!

if the tea is strained/filtered of most plant material fermentation

will take place as it should.

you will recognise your success by the milkyness of the yellow tinged

liquid and the film of metalic[?] sheen on the surface ! this may

take up to 3 days.the brew should have a creamy oily texture.

what was just as surprising was the effect,there was a whole new

aspect that had not been there before.to me its like the old heimia

experience with a dominant layer over it that is like the softness

and colour tones of sacred lotus but a bit brighter.or like kava with

a smart drug.i find it works very quickly and in faifly small

amounts.quite analgesic.this is a pleasure to drink and its cooling

effect should also help make it a popular summer drink.

20gms fermented leaf to just under a litre of water yeilded about

750ml of brew,as a starting point.but you can keep leeching the

leaves until they're exhausted.

think thats the main points".

t s t .

Edited April 29, 2006 by Young Tripper

[Auxin]

Dont forget his fractionation seperating the sedative precipitate fraction from other actives, thats a good one.

I've tried filtering but with no vacuum pump all fubar, and my lil 90 ml blood centrifuge would take too much work for a larger batch. I think I'm going to either build a 1 litre centrifuge or find a chemical means for fractionation.

..Where is t st anyway? been a month and a half since hes posted.