Mitragyna speciosa Flowering Stage of Development

[Francois le Danque]

I want kratom god dammit! i hate you australia!!!!

but seriously, i doubt anyone would notice a kratom plant growing in your yard like they would cannabis or something.... i mean...how are owners of the plant meant to know that it's even illegal? it's not as if they had ads telling us that it had been banned or anything....and yet they could still be charged with cultivation!

oh the inhumanity!

[-bijanto-]

Good news

My kratom tree has finally produced two developed pods just about a week ago. The brown pods contain ripe capsules that fill the holes on the pods. These capsules contain some tiny, white (or cream), thin slivers inside, which are the actual seeds.

I notice that if a flower sheds or ejects its 'petals' and reveals the base showing empty holes, there is no capsule formed, and there will be useless to wait for any further development, even though this empty pod may be attached on the twig for months and turn the colour from white to brown, as if it ripens. In the end, this pod will drop naturally.

Luckily the other day I saw 2 pods that didn't lose their yellow petals. Instead, they seemed to transform their petals into capsules. Those mature pods look exactly like the those in Torsten's pics. You can pick these capsules easily and rub them between your fingers to take the seeds out.

My guess is that this developed pod was successfully pollinated by insects etc. The question is, why weren't most of the pods pollinated?

I will post some photos soon.

Edited April 20, 2006 by -bijanto-

[-bijanto-]

In these pods, some of the capsules have been split open.

Edited April 25, 2006 by -bijanto-

[Spliff]

VERY CooooooooL photos.

Oh, to live in a climate without freezing winter temps.

[Stonehenge]

That's great, bijanto. Absolutely great. I'm in a semitropical climate and get little to no frost. I just bring them in if it does get cold. I'm hoping this year will be the year that they flower but I don't know. My two plants are both Rifat strain and about 4 or 5 years old. They are in 15 gallon pots which limits them somewhat. It would be great to have fresh seed

[-bijanto-]

Spliff, whereabout do you live? I read the other thread on the kratom seeds germination, it was mentioned that the seeds were from Fractamist...could you elaborate? I can't find the website of Fractamist. My Google search didn't succeed.

Stonehenge, I think I know where you live...there are many interesting tropical (or sub-tropical) fruit species growing there, perhaps your climate is about the same like California or Florida in the US?.

I collect all kind of ethnobotanical plants, including medicinals, edibles and ethnobotanicals. Now I have a piece of land around countryside, covering about 3400 meter square, and I've just relocated them from my little house to that land. I will make a small "observing hut" (what do you call it in English?) made of bamboo so I can go there during weekend and take an afternoon nap or have some tea.

[Spliff]

Perhaps we have recently been in touch by email concerning the hot temp of 40c we have in the summer?

Small world.... Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

I will PM you fracts website url.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Spliff

[-bijanto-]

I live in Japan.

Perhaps we have recently been in touch by email concerning the hot temp of 40c we have in the summer?

Small world.... Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

I will PM you fracts website url.

I remember you now, small world indeed

Thank's for the link.

Edited June 30, 2006 by -bijanto-

[-bijanto-]

I might had jumped to the conclusion too early. The previous seed capsules/pods in the above pictures do not actually contain seeds. I thought they were seeds but they've never germinated. I also sent them to a fellow who knows how the seeds look like, and he said they were not the actual seeds.

I brought up this subject to danny at psychoactiveherbs, and he said that they have never gotten any seeds from their many kratom trees as well. The fact that I have only one flowering tree without seeds made me guess that kratom might be dioecious, but when he said that he had many trees (presumably with flowers) without any seeds, that add up my confusion. I asked him to elaborate but he seems busy right now.

Enlightenment, anyone? Perhaps one of you has some information about Fract, like whether they grow their own kratom plant, etc?

Edited June 30, 2006 by -bijanto-

[Torsten]

The very similar Nauclea orientalis trees also don't produce seed most of the time even though they flower profusely. I've had many separate seed grown species flowering and still no seed. So maybe it is a matter of the right pollinator.

Bali & Java would be close enough in climate to Thailand that one would think kratom would flower and seed well. the total absence of seed does indicate a pollinator problem. Maybe you need to dissect a flower and work out a good hand pollination method.....

[teonanacatl]

found this about nauclea

Reproductive type, pollination. Fertile flowers hermaphrodite. Unisexual flowers absent. Plants hermaphrodite. Plants homostylous, or heterostylous. Entomophilous. Pollination mechanism conspicuously specialized (with passive pollen presentation involving stylar modification), or unspecialized.

[Stonehenge]

Does anyone have photos of this Nauclea orientalis? Does it have psychoactivity or is it just a look alike?

[teonanacatl]

http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&s...&spell=1&tab=wi

not sure about psychoactive dont know if its been tested, ill give it a taste see if it warrents further attention. Just a look alike i thinks

[Torsten]

Nauclea is very closely related to Halleas and Mitragynas, as well as Uncarias, with which is shares a lot of it's pharmacology. ie, expect to find rhynchophylline in Nauclea rather than mitragynine type alkaloids.

The flowers however are very similar and the plant grows locally even though it doesn't produce any seed as far as I have been able to find.

I will dissect some Nauclea flowers to have a look where the problem is.

[teonanacatl]

the nauclea up here get seeds, a guy i know grows them from seed as its plentiful, thats what he said.

[-bijanto-]

Thank's T, and Teo... I really appreciate that.

I've googling around but it seems the Web lacks specific information re. botanical reproduction of M. speciosa.

T, I'm glad you can take a look at Nauclea flowers, let us know if you see the problem.

I've heard that certain kind of flowers, such as Mucuna bennettii (red jade vine) can only be pollinated by a species of bird due to its complex shape. But M.speciosa should be pollinated by insect, right...like mentioned in Teo's post...that it's "entomophilous"...?

I'll shoot some closer photos of kratom flower and post them here.

Edited July 3, 2006 by -bijanto-

[-bijanto-]

As I could not take good enough zoom photo of the flower, I tried to draw a sketch of it. I know It's not the best picture but I hope at least it can represent the most basic part of a kratom flower.

As you see, the sketch depicts a part of a flower ball, with 3 flowers attached to it, each of which consists of male and female organs. If you dissect (pull out) a single flower consisting of stigma, petals and stamen, it will leave an empty hole on the flower ball. Actually, a flower ball may consist of 85 flowers.

A single flower consists of 5 yellow petals surroundng 1 yellow pistil. The stamens are very thin and are somewhat brownish, I guess there are 5 of them but they were too small, I'm not sure how many of them. They are located somewhere between the petals and and the pistil but you can see them popping out from between the petals.

Yesterday I did what I call a "tongue pollination", which is simpy licking the whole surface of the flowers with a little force of my tongue, I don't know if it will work but when I did that I could feel my tongue accumulated with pollens as I licked. A neighbour was staring at me when I did that , he must think I was out of mind but I didn't really pay attention.

Oh by the way, a kratom flower smells really good, very fragrant

Edited July 5, 2006 by -bijanto-

[Rev]

lick pollination ey? i like it

so what pollinates kratom?

bats? birds?

[teonanacatl]

hmm interesting, so the stamens can be seen from the outside? Id say birds and there is probably some nector glands in between the flowers, birds go inbetween flowers then into flowers. Ants are good polinators maybe place some on there. Also could be beetles of some sort and they crawl between the flowers. Nauclea sp smells like shit.

[-bijanto-]

Rev - Yeah when I was there standing with my cotton swab, my nose being so close to the sexy looking, fragrant flower, I suddenly felt the 'urge'... ... It happened just like that, I didn't even realize that those pollens could be bad for health. Anyone know if ingesting pollens bad for human's health?

Later I think that using hand for pollination doesn't seem very gentle, I mean our tongue is the most flexible and sticky part of our five senses (sight, touch, taste, hearing, and smell). It can go through the most delicate parts of the flowers. So why don't we use tongue instead of hand?

Teo - I've seen those insects and birds around the tree before, still no seeds. Don't know why, maybe I need elephant just like in Thailand?

[Torsten]

best pollination toool is a small paintbrush.

the pollen and stigma probably ripen at different times, so to pollinate you will have to get pollen and deposit this onto stigmas that have only just emerged right through to when they die back. If you use the same brush and store it in a vial in the fridge then you increase the chances of transferring pollen to the right place at the right time.

It is easy to tell when the pollen ripes as you can see the dust on the anthers and surrounds. It is much harder to know when the stigma is ripe, but at least you know it can only be between just as the flower opens and when the stigma goes brown, dry or limp.

[-bijanto-]

Thank's Torsten, some more questions pls:

• How do I stick pollens to the brush, does it have to be dry or wet?
  
• Must all 85 stigmas be pollinated in order to be successful?
  
• Whats the point of keeping the pollens in the fridge?
  

 

[Torsten]

How do I stick pollens to the brush, does it have to be dry or wet?

dry. pollen is static and sticky, so will adhere to brush all by itself. you may not even see the pollen, but if it is ripe it will be there.

Must all 85 stigmas be pollinated in order to be successful?

each stigma will fertilise its own ovary/ovaries only. For best results you will need to do most/all stigmas on each flower ball.

Whats the point of keeping the pollens in the fridge?

Pollen is short lived. Exposed to normal temps it may die in as little as 24 hours (usually 2 - 14 days for most tropical plants). You don't have to put in fridge, especially if you pollinate every day, but a fridge is essential if you only do it once a week.

[foolsbreath]

sorry for the hijack, what about cactus pollen viability? I collected heaps this year and stored it dry but unfridgerated, spose its useless now?

[Torsten]

sorry for the hijack, what about cactus pollen viability? I collected heaps this year and stored it dry but unfridgerated, spose its useless now?

cactus pollen generally has amuch longer viability. most arid plants have pollen of long viability. we are talking weeks and even months.