Sydney riots

[Cyjack]

You might consider that the rest of nature might be seen as racist.

You dont see lions inviting tigers and cheetahs to dinner and arguing that 'All cats should get along' sort of thing. This idea of assimilation and intergration might be something foreign to the heart of nature, which appears to evolve from conflict and differences.

Perhaps older cultures will have the biggest hurdles with the idea of unification? Perhaps the idea of joining the 'Aussie' culture (what ever that might be) is not the best incentive for people to shed their past? Ponder ponder.....

[John_Barleycorn]

Back in my teenage years in the 70s (in Melbourne), it was all long-hairs vs sharpies. There was a vague racial element to it, in that the sharps did tend to attract a higher proportion of Mediterraneans, but back then these were of the Catholic/orthodox variety, not Muslim. There was, however, a much bigger class element to it all - the sharps definitely tended to come from the wrong side of the tracks. It seems to me that was also the situation in Sydney - the Parramatta yobs taking on the more privileged Eastern suburbs public schoolboys, who incidentally weren't disinclined towards a bit of biffo themselves. Of course, yobs of the unskilled variety probably can't afford to live in Parramatta anymore.

One of the more bizarre situations I ever got into as a long-hair was being jumped by a bunch of sharpies as we left a school dance one night. We were mostly lying bleeding on the ground when this karate expert turned up out of nowhere and proceeded to dispatch the sharps with a series of head-kicks. At that point, we thought some thanks might be in order, but it turned out this guy just liked to show off his fighting prowess, hadn't finished for the night, and wanted to know whether any of us were up for it! "Is this a private fight or can anyone join in"?

[botanika]

An old boss once said 'white middle aged anglo saxon males are the most oppressed people in society'...he said it tongue in cheek but there's actually some truth in it when you put everything into context.

Australia is a country still cooking in the oven - Instead of our government concentrating on the ingredients, flavour and original recipe its flicking the temperature dial around all over the place and trying to sneak extra seasoning into the bake. They'll be putting the country in the microwave next if we're not careful. Steady as she goes Johhny Boy!

[wandjina]

Australia is a country still cooking in the oven - Instead of our government concentrating on the ingredients, flavour and original recipe its flicking the temperature dial around all over the place and trying to sneak extra seasoning into the bake. They'll be putting the country in the microwave next if we're not careful. Steady as she goes Johhny Boy!

not sure I understand what you mean...??

[Gollum]

All the riots that are happening in Cronulla at the moment are pretty disgusting. I am also really dissapointed at the way both the minority aussies and minority lebanese/ ethnic groups have acted. They definately dont depict the Australian muticultural society.

It sucks that the aussies involved in this are being labeled as surfers. Fair enough a good percentage of them probably were, but, there were also a lot of rednecks that had travelled from inland just to cause trouble.

The average Australin surfing fraternity have always been a group that embraces and respects other cultures while travelling in their search for the perfect wave. We are not responsible for the odd bad apple.

I dont think it is fair that all surfers be labeled as " blonde bronzed brainless surfing racists".

Being a surfer myself, i would be really pissed off if i was put into this catagory just because i surf and because of what a few other knobs have done.

I am a very passionate and proud Australian who works hard to maintain the great aussie dream of freedom, respect and compassion.

[apothecary]

Nicely said Gollum, you should be proud.

I missed that one too wandjina...oven? ingredients?

[trixxy3]

A fair fight is a fair fight, no matter which way you look at it, and fine in my books, but clobbering people on the back of the head without them expecting it, threatening rape, massive weight of numbers, thats just something you don't do. Really, how pathetic are some people?

The whole thing really questions the morals of the people involved, besides it being pretty awful.

[ramon]

You dont see lions inviting tigers and cheetahs to dinner and arguing that 'All cats should get along' sort of thing. This idea of assimilation and intergration might be something foreign to the heart of nature, which appears to evolve from conflict and differences.

This analogy is flawed as we are all the same species.

conflict I believe is not a essential part of nature until you get competition for resources.

Australia truly is the lucky country and so we have no real need for this conflict but like it or not, we have it.

[botanika]

not sure I understand what you mean...??

australia is a young country with a good foundation of values and awesome potential. i used a metaphor of cooking, likening our government to chef's and that australias still maturing (cooking, baking) as a nation.

[Cyjack]

This analogy is flawed as we are all the same species.

Perhaps if you could 'see' behind the words to their meaning friend = words can sometimes get in the way of a good conversation. I mean that as there are numerous types of cats and butterflies and birds, there are also different types of humans. Most different types of animals in nature keep to their self-similar strains, so perhaps this is the natural instinctive manner of animal existence?

conflict I believe is not a essential part of nature until you get competition for resources.

I am not sure what you mean - animals fight all the time - at least the carnivores do. Of course, in those cases the 'resource' is also the 'victim'. It brings new meaning perhaps to the idea of negociation.

Australia truly is the lucky country and so we have no real need for this conflict but like it or not, we have it.

Australia - or the people on it, are lucky I must agree.... but it is people that we are talking about - and most people are walking bags of conflict arent they? I think that the ramifications of 'middle eastern men going on a rampage' especially in the current international setting, is also a concern. Enter the media circus ->

[Hagakure]

in terms of evolutionary and natural selection matters the level of togetherness is proportional to the amount of similar genetic material. you feel closest to those that are directly related to you. your brothers, sisters, cousins whatever. if a fight breaks out you generally would take their side due to feeling some connection. that connection is the amount of genetic material shared. your bond is basically due to wanting to see your genetic material propogated as any individual that did not have this desire got their ass naturally selected out of the gene pool.

bonds are therefore proportional to the amount of genetic material shared. people of a race feel closer to each other when confronted with another race competing for the same resources.

just like if another life form from out of space arrived all humans would band together to confront it.

its basically an issue of genetics as always.

me i am a pale white dude and need some tan in my gene pool.

the sooner all races get it on and share the love the sooner we will all get along. ;)

[NatureBoy]

Just read in the Adelaide Advertiser today that there are groups of 'white supremicists' (for lack of my mind coming up with a better term) in New Zealand, particularly Wellington at the moment who have spray painted publicly to incite white violence against Arabs. Apparently in Auckland a mosque or two have been defaced.

This is sad, because I have been to New Zealand and have had the view that it is a much more racially tolerant place than Australia. Perhaps I was wrong, or perhaps there will be nowhere to go to escape this madness.

[simon_marklar]

it seems that a multitude of reasons are causing these tensions. but i dont give much stock to the racism card.

why? well, if you are attacked by a group of people, its only natural that you are going to be scared if the same conitions arises. its only natural that after 10 odd years of hearing about it happening in your back yard, and seeing the police do nothing, that you will do something about it.

I dont condone what was done at all, but i can understand it. its born out of pure frustration. frustration that your sister might be raped by 10 guys whilst walking home tonight. frustration that the lifesavers who saved your life just got beaten up for nothing. frustration that you cannot walk down the street anymore without flinching when you hear a loud car drive past. the police have done nothing to help, and the people are sick of it. unfortunatly, this has lead to an angry mob, and angry mobs are useless for justice, and great for stirring up more trouble. if only the police acted when this first started happening.

what the fuck do people expect? try picking on a dog over and over and see if it doesnt bite you.

[botanika]

whatever happened to the spirit of people unity experienced during the sydney olympics?

hope it hasnt been forgotten!

[Rev]

yes to what Wandjina said

Though from my own perspective, from the kids i chose to hang out with at school and onwards i can confess i am quite prejudiced against 'white' australia

Not by the colour of the skin but its a cultural thing

i mean there are people of european descent and anglo descnet i that i have an affinity to

they tend to be alternative types or children of recent immigrants

I was mulling over it the other day and considered my until now form insistence that all cultures are valid representations of humanity. strange as they seem to us its just a matter of perspective they are all successfully evolved sets of memes with their positive and negative attributes, usually balanced. Thjis balance is important as it is what stabilises life within that mindset and makes people happy

but now i am left wondering about this "Aussie" mainstream and whether it fits an exception, like other anglicised urbanised affluent cultures

That of a degenerate culture. One out of balance and essentially rotten at the core

you can only really define a culture by its artefacts. for what i despise Think

John howard and right wing politics of fear,'A current affair' and ' today tonight', Channels 7,9 and 10, Rove live, Radio shockjocks, RSL clubs, the gold coast, Football and cricket stars,doughy white bread, shopping malls, Credit cards an 200000 dollar mortgages, processed or bain marie bistro food, supermarket shopping and petrol stations, boozy sat night pubs and nightclubs, "Kath and kim" lifestyles.

for me this demographic is the homogenous bane, the cancer of australian society. An ever expanding all consuming cultural wasteland bewteen the migrant cultures of australia and the regional ethnicity of 'Real' Australia, whether it be the alternative types,the traditional, the educated types, aboriginal groups or the rural community

"I have a problem with this whole 'assimilation' thing."

Me too. Id rather skin my own knuckles with a potato peeler than conform to what the media spouts as "Aussie"

The Australia i love wouldnt vote for someone like john howard

That makes me part of the new minority

[John_Barleycorn]

you can only really define a culture by its artefacts. for what i despise Think

John howard and right wing politics of fear,'A current affair' and ' today tonight', Channels 7,9 and 10, Rove live, Radio shockjocks, RSL clubs, the gold coast, Football and cricket stars,doughy white bread, shopping malls, Credit cards an 200000 dollar mortgages, processed or bain marie bistro food, supermarket shopping and petrol stations, boozy sat night pubs and nightclubs, "Kath and kim" lifestyles.

for me this demographic is the homogenous bane, the cancer of australian society.

It could be worse. The US has all of the above features, plus this puritanical "God is on our side" mentality, plus a belief in every man's right to bear firearms, plus an extremely warped sense of patriotism, etc. I suspect their white supremists would regard ours as still having the training wheels on.

[wandjina]

We were warned off the beach last weekend....but on Saturday afternoon my daughter and I enjoyed a swim at Bronte alongside our fellow Aussies.

Families enjoyed their BBQs on the grassed areas while their kids kicked balls and played. An idyllic scene.

I realised that never before had I appreciated it. Snags, kebabs and tempanyaki on the barbie. A beer and a laugh, swap a piece of steak for some stir fry chicken. To me, this is an Aussie summer.

This is the way Bronte has always been, I don't recall their ever being violence or racism, even when the area was working class. Since my childhood Bronte has been frequented by people of many backgrounds, especially Greeks and Italians, and more recently Islamic people as indicated by the womens head scarfs. There have been no problems. Its about families and friends having a day at the beach and that's it.

On Sunday we went to Marrickville Metro shopping centre, even more culturally diverse...and no tension whatsoever. Mums and dads shopping with their kids, smiling in acknowledgement of the beauty of each other babies, or that look of bemused recognition in another mothers eyes when your child has a tantrum in the supermarket. All the shit is transcended...this is what it's all about. Human.

This is the Sydney I know....but we don't see it in the media.

[Qhorakuna tantani]

I know this is an old thread but I thought its worth mentioning.

I was out and about last night (NYE) in Germany, where I am for the next 4 weeks, and went with a few friends to a sorta outdoor party thing. Everyone that I didn't know was asking me where I was from and when I told one guy I was from Australia, he sort of gave a frown of dissaproval. I wondered what it was about until he asked me if I supported what was going on in australia. I asked him if he'd seen the riots, after getting the word translated into german for me, and he said yea, then asked me again if I supported what was going on. Of course I told him no, and tried to explain that this depiction in the media was only a very small minority of most of the very multicultural Australia's population. I think that maybe he was somehwat more pushy with wanting to know if I supported the racist actions because of the fact that there are some people here that are quite neonazi and most of the young people don't agree with it , from what I've experienced, and most openly oppose such things/people. I didn't even see the riots becuase I was over here when they happened but apparently others did and it may have had some detrimental effects on the view of Australia. Maybe moreso than we realise. How often in the media in other countries is Australia portrayed as a very multicultural nation? Do many people from other countries realise what a multicultural nation we are? If not then other countries have only been able to see a racist side of Australia, however small that may be. Just a way to incite more acts of terrorism so that the gov can say, "See, we needed those terrorism laws after all."

Its funny though, Australia is so young and we don't really have a defined culture, we simply assimilate everybody elses into our own.

[Rev]

There arent many countries with defined cultures anymore

the 20th century caused so much change in human technology and society that what we think is a nations culture is usually hopelessly out of date. National dress and housing, lifetsyle and occupation, cuisine and eating habits, family and sexual habits, the nature of human relations - language and the WWW - barely a stone is left unturned and unchanged on the face of the planet and the speed of change is accelerating, both as change to new ways of thinking and doing and also as a homogenisation of many aspects of life.

interestingly as people immigrate to australia and enetr the multicultural pool here they are leaving their homelands which will continue to change without them so that if they ever go back they often find the culture of the country they left no longer exists.

think Disneys ' a small world'

this blinkered and false definition of culture is cute but can be dangerous when in the hands of the political neo-conservative revolution, be they taliban, australia first or PNAC, which they use to enforce conformity.

thus the 'Aussie' culture continues to mean anglo christian hetero yobbo. Never mind those germans (SA, afghans, chinese, welsh (SA), japanese (Broome), kanaks or Sikhs that have been here since the formative colonisation days.

think about the way aussies are portrayed in Film and how that doesnt represent anything but teh most obscure parts of aussie culture. Now use that leverage to extrapolate how inaccurate our own vision of other countries must be.

i think in human culture theres an inverse relationship between definition and the truth.