Sydney riots

[Darklight]

We've been seeing it on the news for a few days now... how accurate is the reporting? It looks like a big fugly fuckup. Anyone live around there care to comment?

I grew up around that area and it was moderately racist 30 years ago, the present events are hidjus and embarrassing and excerable to imagine.

Our Prime Minister reports himself as shocked. Well John, this is the Australia you made mate. After years of children overboard PR, villification and publicly sanctioned maltreatment of refugees ( and people you just decided were refugees ) and all the arm flapping about Muslim extremists followed closely by disgusting sedition and antiterrorism laws- this is the Australia you created mate.

(sidenote ) You think with Malcolm Fraser retiring from the Liberal Party on the grounds that they were a bunch of fear and hate mongers would have tipped the Labour Party off and gained them some valuable ground and space to make an actual difference but no, they weren't paying attention. What two party system?

[Salviador]

When i initially heard about the riots, I was mainly really disappointed that this sort of thing was happening in Australia. My heart sunk at the thought of Aussie's showing such extreme racism, all seemingly because of the hype kicked up around terrorists recently.

However speaking to a friend last night, he mentioned, that the Lebanese in particular "own" certain parts of Sydney. Many police don't step foot in parts of sydney because of the Lebanese dominance. This coupled with the fact that two life guards ( Australian symbols) were beaten for seemingly no good reason has sparked a sort of community backlash for years of living in fear.

After hearing this opinion, I was confused. On the one hand i wished we could all just get along, but on the other, i heard a need and fear of the non-Lebanese residents to feel safe in their homes. I suppose all the ruckus from the government has made it more difficult for the Arab's in this country, what a sad situation

[Darklight]

After hearing this opinion, I was confused. On the one hand i wished we could all just get along, but on the other, i heard a need and fear of the non-Lebanese residents to feel safe in their homes.

All residents should feel safe in their own homes. Many don't regardless of location and this has been going on well before the Lebanese started arriving in numbers.

I remember horrendous Xmas arguments with my moronic cousins nearly 30 years ago, who lived in some godforsaken suburb and took the train to the beach at weekends. They used to get hyped up over the fact that people from other cultures went to the beach on weekends, not wearing 'proper Australian clothes' of all things. They always threatened to go out and bash them, but to the best of my knowledge never did. Their argument was that they lived at the beach and they were here first. When I'd get equally hyped and point out that they didn't live anywhere near the beach and weren't the first people to use it it would always end with us getting separated and going home with the shits. We spend Xmas separately now.

I used to live near Cronulla. As far back as I can remember the public face of its culture was dominated by hate- that's recollections from 30 years ago. Surfies would hate crips ( body boarders ), women surfers, women generally after three beers, anyone who didn't live in the Shire, anyone who didn't live near the beach, anyone from another country, and sometimes anyone who had been spending too long outside the area. All at the same time, or sequentially depending on present company and number of beers consumed.

As a teenaged girl there were places I wouldn't go. As a competent grownup there still are. Parts of Cronulla as well as other parts of Sydney, more at night. Now its because I can't be fucked with the argument or hassle, back then it was simple physical fear. Is the justification of me deserving to feel safe in my own area sufficient to warrant me flogging the shit out of anyone randomly who I suspect belongs to a group whose individual members might harrass or hassle me or my friends? I'd be a busy grrl if that was the case

Sorry, my point is that tensions beachfront have been simmering for years on both sides. I think Howard P/L have created a climate where the result is inevitable

Edited December 12, 2005 by Darklight

[Salviador]

Oh yeah, for sure, everyone does deserve to feel safe regardless of race or anything really

"I used to live near Cronulla. As far back as I can remember the public face of its culture was dominated by hate- that's recollections from 30 years ago. "

I wonder how this started? why hasnt it happened everywhere... This also makes me think that John's policy is probably a reflection of a portion of Australia that has come back 360 degrees and inflamed an already hot situation

"Is the justification of me deserving to feel safe in my own area sufficient to warrant me flogging the shit out of anyone randomly who I suspect belongs to a group whose individual members might harrass or hassle me or my friends? I'd be a busy grrl if that was the case"

Good point, at one level its a statement of we won't be bullied and we will fight back, but at a more objective level its undirected intention.

These guys might be well to take a leaf out of the American Ghettos book and start freestyling or break dancing or thinking instead of bashing

[Darklight]

I wonder how this started? why hasnt it happened everywhere...

Beaches are public space in Australia ( in a lot of other countries they're not ) Beaches are also your classic easy place to organise shit around- lots of empty space and easy access in and out. Difficult to impress control on. Beaches tend to get a lot of ppl from outside coming in to visit them, and thus bring on a whole shitload of territorial behaviour on the part of the locals ( with whatever attendant justifications ) Think Sharp's vs surfies in the 70's ( I think ). Same shit, different excuses.

This also makes me think that John's policy is probably a reflection of a portion of Australia that has come back 360 degrees and inflamed an already hot situation

I agree 100%

These guys might be well to take a leaf out of the American Ghettos book and start freestyling or break dancing or thinking instead of bashing

The notion of blonde bronzed and brainless surfing racists spinning round on their heads cracks me up. I suppose the extra bloodflow can only improve things

[Green Chemist]

Having read several news reports on the web about these riots, I really think a stronger hand by the police would have contined an already bad situation. In fact the police and the courts should have cracked down the harressment and thug tatics from both sides before all these erupted.

The bottom line is that both the state and federal goverments lack the political will to seriously crack down on mass civil disturbanaces. It is wonder people aren'y killed. I have watched the police response to both the Redfern and Macquarie Fields riots and comparing to other countries policing, our guys look like scared rabbits. Bear in mind this is not the fault of the police, but the fault of the state goverment that refuses to empower them to handle such situations.

Perhaps the NSW state goverment should consider contracting foreign police to handle these riots. The South Korea police would be perfect for this. I have seen footage of them in action and it is not a pretty sight. As for the report that the police feared the crowd would turn them if they took a stronger hand, well that is what tear gas and water cannons are for.

In closing, the softly softly approached used by the NSW goverment is not working and it needs to consider other approaches. Oh yeah I wonder if any of the individuals involved in that lastest spate will be charged under the new anti-terror laws, from what I read of those laws, some of what happen on Sunday Monday might fall under that jurisdiction

[apothecary]

I don't think I agree.

It's easy for everyone to complain that the cops weren't hard handed enough after the event, but if there had been even one bad incident involving the cops as instigators then everyone would be crying police brutality.

[Leo^]

This sux, Im a fair way north of this and people all over my town and trying to start this up here too, organising riot crews to attack non-whites (mainly lebs) where they congregate. Practically speaking this is really fucking stupid. These kids organising this are morons who get on the piss and think theyre supermen, whereas they are taking on guys who do carry guns and who will shoot you. Im expecting some serious incidents in a lot of areas after this lot in Cronulla.

[macro]

I think the media is well over 70% responsible for these shameful acts. The sensational reporting, including the broadcast and reading of text messages saying "meet at ... at 1pm on Sunday, it's on!" and so forth are just inciting the violence and rampage. After the intial incident the other week, and Cronulla dwelling friend of mine said it was all a bit out of proportion. Without that media, it would have remained an isolated incident.

It is appalling the way that these people are acting, all of them. Watching 50 people chase down a single female and start beating her is so low it was hard to watch on tv.

Not surprisingly, the media is starting to blur the line between middle east and Muslim.. muslims vs surfers. I didn't know that they had idealogical differences!

But yeah, it's a bit out of control from all (first hand) reports, a sad chapter in Sydney and Australia's history..

[Cyjack]

When I lived in Cronulla near the police station, there was violence on the streets most weekend nights. I remember celebrating my house warming there one night with invited friends, and we went for a walk towards the beach to take advantage of the warm summer evening. We were almost assulted by a group of Australians on a binge drinking session (without provocation) - untill they were distracted by a passing car and proceeded to throw a bottle at it.

After a while, I noticed that Cronulla (IMO at the time) was not the nice place I had first thought. There were many old men who walked around the mall at night checking out the young drunk girls, there were needles on the beach sometimes, rats - and lots of them etc. It seemed to me that Cronulla was the sort of place that people went to retire and die, not so much enjoy life and live in harmony. Then I got to learn about the 'Habibis'.

The 'Habibis" (not sure about spelling) were what some of the locals called the arab people who came to Cronulla from the western suburbs of Sydney on hot days, and most weekends. Apparently, they would come in big numbers, take up the public facilities on and around the beaches and intimidate the locals in typical primal human male fashion. My boss at the time (who owned the bookstore where I worked) related the day he had visited the beach with his family and he had been intimidated off the beach by a group of young teenage boys. I remember it so well, that I can still recall the tension and shame in his voice and manner as he told me what had happened. He was for the first time in my eyes, noticably distraught.

This stuff has been brewing for a while - and perhaps the lifesavers were the 'last straw' for the locals, and perhaps other narrow minded hate mongers.

I think its a complex issue, requiring some clear thinking and organised developement to guide the people through it. Too bad that no one with these qualities normally makes it into Government.

[Rev]

ive never been anywhere but sydney airport but its interetsting watching the hatemongers on TV

sounds like the lebanese gangs need their arse kicked

but the real crime seems to the shit stirring by the white supremacists turning it from an issue of crime to an issue of race

the cops seem sympathetic to the yobbos too

drunken louts espousing racial hatred and inciting violence

'ah boys will be boys'

if the shoe was on the other foot theyd be using those new sedition laws....

wed better get this shit under control fast cos its these injustices and villifications that make people think ' well this counbtry has got it out for us so we have no loyalty and fuckem, lets build a bomb'

My maternal grandparents are migrants and it forever pisses them off, this blatant aussie nationalism. They tell me and the numbers back it up that this country was built on migrants backs, not native born aussies. When the work is shit you can count the aussies on one hand theyd say, but when they get air conditioning they all turn up.

this doesnt apply to the leb issue but its a big gripe of mine with the ultra nationalist ockers

[Hagakure]

its definately a tricky issue. i can try to get the jist of it from peoples reports but we dont really get that type of stuff as much down here in SA. sure we get groups of wankers but there seem to be even amounts of all races.

i could see some fights breaking out down here because of it.

yeah the lebanese gangs sound like they need their asses kicked but so do any gangs. was interesting letter in paper comparing koreans with lebanese immigrants. koreans have assimilated quite well while lebanese have always had this macho bullshit going on preventing their assimilation.

what im thinking is why do some groups assimilate well while others do not?

asians tend to assimilate well. sure there are asian gangs and crime and everything else but there are also many asians in very responsible positions in our country.

is it a social issue. do some groups have a macho mentality that is encouraged through the style of parenting?

ie is it nurture

or more controversially do some races have different patterns of behaviour?

in some study they showed that people of jewish decent tend to be more intelligent than some other groups for example. there is a relation between some characteristics and race. i can definately see that aggression could be one of them. if through natural selection a race had increased testosterone levels for example.

its a controversial topic for sure but what are peoples opinions on it?

i would just like to add that i am not a racist but a scientist who likes to examine all avenues without blinders of society. just because its not PC doesnt meant that it doesnt exist.

(btw on the topic of south korean riot police have you seen the south korean protesters? now those are some crazy bastards. saw footage of some south korean farmers and they were armed with poles attacking the cops like crazy. solidarity for sure. they managed to rip down this shipping crate that was being used as a barricade. coolest protesters in the world are the south koreans in my book)

[Salviador]

I would like to add a very uninformed stab at why they don't assimilate well.

Obviously its a multi-faceted issue. I think that Macho would be a contributing factor.

Is assimilation the only factor in predicting whether gangs exist?

I think their acceptace by the majority would be a big determinant of feeling the need to become part of a gang (us/them mentality). Their acceptance by the majority would be influenced by their existing similarity with the majority, also the perceived threat by the majority, (us them).

So the common thread is perhaps an us them mentality, which can be healthy in some ways, just not when its unbalanced teehee, what a generalisation oh well its late

[jasemateau]

even tho i have only spent a few days in sydney, this has no binding to my opinion of the city.

my experience's in melbourne were fuc'd with some guys in clubs of a unknown origin and unfamiliar accent

the one thing i have learnt about aussie's (what ever that is) after traveling for nearly 5 years and worked with approx 60 different nationality's and walked on more than 100 counties soil.

it take ALOT ALOT ALOT of shit for aussies to retaliate, and when we get pissed off bloodly look out!!!!!!!!!!!

aussies are generally not big on the biff, to work with people that do speak arabic language, they can be angry as soon as look at you, simply because you got a smile on your face.

fortunatly i never had a superior who was of a arabic tongue, but superiors in other sectors of my previous work environment were.

it's funny when i left australia for the first time i could'nt belive how much racisim exsists, however the more i traveled to more racisit i found myself becoming, not because i chose to, i was becoming more and more racist because of all the times i trusted other nationalitys, only to be hurt, stabed in the back,ripped off, left in dark alley in a fucking violent neighbourhood, poisoned, beaten up, compleatly stripped of any thread of confidence because it gave them some sort of sick pleasure DAILY,

did i mention being ripped off because i was white, and extorded.

oh and being ripped off because i was white.....

oh and being ripped off because i was white..........

i really dont think i'm racist, just conditioned to the world i have seen.

i have many wonderful .experiences with countless nationalitys this goes in the other hand,

i dont know how this world we live has got to this point, myself the corporations are responsable, and the lust for a free money. money for no sort of labour.

fucking intrest rates!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry guys babling again. way off topic

[Andy the Great Something]

It's funny how a country of forced immigrants could be so territorial.

So, I guess now wouldn't be a good time for me to be looking into a work visa huh?

[mr toodly]

/me crosses Australia from travel list

[mr toodly]

Not really, but this sickens me enough to entertain the idea.

[Legba]

i dont believe the powers that be were unaware of this building tension. if you let people get away with shit for long enuf, vigilante groups emerge calling for "sweeping new laws" to address the situation. that way, there is no opposition to the laws and people are led to believe we're heading in the right direction as 'patriotic' aussies.

The media have played their part by spreading the hateful word. if you were pm, wouldn't you explain to them the penalties for inciting hatred and the effects it would have...unless thats what you wanted?

Mass psychosis is a part of human nature, and it aint pretty, folks.

PEACE

[Amulte]

thats fair enough RJ. i was born here and this make me want to leave more. there is nothing we can do here but watch. everythings changed and we have lost part of Australia in the process i think. ive been watching all the videos on NineMsn , the footage is somwhat frightening. its not the Australia i once knew. a song by Bob Dylan reminds me of Australia right now in this moment in time, Australia has never been like this. The times are a changing...

Come gather 'round people

Wherever you roam

And admit that the waters

Around you have grown

And accept it that soon

You'll be drenched to the bone.

If your time to you Is worth savin'

Then you better start swimmin'

Or you'll sink like a stone

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics

Who prophesize with your pen

And keep your eyes wide

The chance won't come again

And don't speak too soon

For the wheel's still in spin

And there's no tellin' who that it's namin'.

'Cause the loser now

Will be later to win

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen

Please heed the call

Don't stand in the doorway

Don't block up the hall

For he that gets hurt

Will be he who has stalled

The battle outside ragin'

Will soon shake your windows *)

And rattle your walls

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers

Throughout the land

And don't criticize

What you can't understand

Your sons and your daughters

Are beyond your command

Your old road is rapidly agin'.

Please get out of the new one

If you can't lend your hand

For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn

The curse it is cast

The slow one now

Will later be fast

As the present now

Will later be past

The order is rapidly fadin'.

And the first one now

Will later be last

For the times they are a-changin'.

[Amulte]

The media have played their part by spreading the hateful word. if you were pm, wouldn't you explain to them the penalties for inciting hatred and the effects it would have...unless thats what you wanted?

Exactly! who was the 1st to call it 'the race riots'? and speaking of johnny i was an interiew where all he said was "what 'should' happen in these people involved in the riots 'should' be punnished and that way themselves and the public 'should' learn that this behaviour is unacceptable"

Mass psychosis is a part of human nature, and it aint pretty, folks.

PEACE

people just aint no good

[Torsten]

I used to work with both lebanese and aussies in sydney, but never at the same time. They hate each other far too much. While I don't condone any racism of any kind, it is important to remember that the lebanese seggregate themselves intentionally at the exclusion of aussies, and that the lebanese are just as racist as the aussie elements in this. The intolerance is on both sides and in my experience often stronger on the lebanese side than on the aussie side, although this may well have changed in the last few years.

We used to employ lebanese (ie arab) security for our events because the only problems we ever had were from arabs and the only way to diffuse them was with arab security guards. It's a major consideration for any event organiser in sydney.

This was nearly 10 years ago and I know things only got worse in that time. While I think the escalation is mostly down to Howards policies and media generated fear, the underlying problem has been there for many years and no one bothered to do anything about it. The riots did not surprise me.

The problem is that most of the victims in this won't be the lebanese or aussie youths who are so polarised, but sadly, most of the victims will be innocent bystanders who don't align with either side.

[Darklight]

i dont believe the powers that be were unaware of this building tension. if you let people get away with shit for long enuf, vigilante groups emerge calling for "sweeping new laws" to address the situation. that way, there is no opposition to the laws and people are led to believe we're heading in the right direction as 'patriotic' aussies.

Agree strongly. I've also noticed a strong anti-lebanese bias in the reporting of the story.

The intolerance is on both sides

Yep

While I think the escalation is mostly down to Howards policies and media generated fear, the underlying problem has been there for many years and no one bothered to do anything about it. The riots did not surprise me.

Yep

The problem is that most of the victims in this won't be the lebanese or aussie youths who are so polarised, but sadly, most of the victims will be innocent bystanders who don't align with either side.

Yep

Shit, I'm old enough to be quoting history at youse, but does anyone else remember the accusation that ppl from Asian countries ( bias varied at times, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean I think was the order ) would never be able to happily adjust to living as a broader part of the Australian community? I read somewhere that similar statements were also historically applied to the Irish and Welsh just after British settlement. Does anyone else remember the anit Asian push that was in Sydney in the 80's? Lots of National Action right wing shit, very public, very vocal and constantly reinforced ( though not directly ) by radio and TV shockjocks?

Like I said, same shit, different excuse, and how quickly we forget...

The whole cultural difference is immutable view is IMO quite biassed by memory and reporting as well. For example the hidjus and vicious Lebanese gang rapes which were publicised to death by the media were presented as the result of such unbridgeable cultural differences. But some of you might know or remember the culture of gang rape in the 70's- it was very much a Western youth thing- and it didn't get much publicity at all. Even now. Someone wrote a book on it recently which was discussed in an SMH article, and the issue died a very very quiet death after that. Possibly this was a result of attitudes to rape at the time- it just wasn't discussed at all and most ppl I know of who were attacked at that time still don't talk about it. I still believe there is a cultural component in the media's reporting of rape in one culture and its complete lack of interest in our own culture's complicity in the same actions not so long ago.

I dunno, I tend to view it as a disaffected young bloke issue. You get two bunches of testosterone pumped young blokes anywhere and shit has a huge capacity to escalate. Whether or not it catches on and involves the wider community depends on other factors. Fortunately young blokes grow up and most get a degree of wisdom on the way, but then they're replaced by a fresh crop of disaffected young blokes. See whose making the mess and have a think about the median age. Teach your children well...

[Viking]

i think this is a bit over the top...

to many people hittn the piss ..

i agree all gangs should get there arse kicked .. but is it just me or do most gangs seem to be ethnic?

asians and lebs are the main gangs we have around here ,, i think australia is a very unique place to have such a cultural diversity and that makes us lucky .. but with this cultural diversity comes racism... its bound to happen .. but to this extreme level? i didnt expect it to come on so full fledged.... its rediculous...

but ive heard of something recently(might be word of mouth) involvong muslims which really fucks me off...

apparently muslims are trying to force their beleifs white australians..i disagree with that .. i love australia.. i dont mind people coming to our country as it is a great place to live (usually) but dont try and force beleifs on other people .. its their right to choose their religion, beleifs etc .. not anyone elses...

sorry bit off topic there but i disagree to riots.. the intolerence is deffinately coming from both sides .. unbeknowest to most ignorant people .... infact an asian friend of mine seems to like to call me white boy ... which makes no sense as when i joke around and call him an asian he crys to the principal (im a skooly) ...what goes around comes around...karma man

we need to all become enthobots then the world would go round .. haha

cheers, steve

[ramon]

To me the main concern about this is the indications that Osama Bin Laden is so much closer to accomplishing his goals then I would have believed.

As I understand it, one of his main goals is to unite the muslim community. He hoped to do this by causing non muslims to discriminate against muslims forcing the muslims to come together.

I am not in any way condoning the actions of either of the two parties in the riots but to me the main concern is how neatly events are slotting into OBL plan

[wandjina]

I'm sydney born and bred, and have witnessed a spectrum of attitudes to peoples 'racial' backgrounds.

I grew up in paddington before it was trendy, when most residents were mainly Italian or Greek immigrants, students, single parent families and arty types.

My primary school was 'multicultural', but I don't remember the term being used then. My friends came from diverse backrounds, and racism was not an issue from our perspectives. We knew what the word meant, but I don't recall a single incident of anyone being excluded or picked on because of their backround (well, except for the scientology kids, they were just plain weird) .

In large part, this may have been because most of the kids came from pretty 'leftish', or educated low income households. I cannot recall ethnicity being an issue, my brother's and I friends were all 'aussies'; with czech, french, aboriginal, italian, singaporean, korean, greek, sth african, dutch, lebanese, turkish etc etc parents.

The only kids born overseas, and with accents, were the french and lebanese kids. Again, i cannot remember this being an issue, rather we were curious. 'do you think in french or english?', 'was your dad in the war in Lebanon'?

There was absolutely no separation into different groups based on background.

It wasn't till highschool that I first encountered racism in action at Randwick Girls high. To my surprise, everyone separated themselves into groups: the anglos ("Aussies" or 'skippies'), the cassies (Greeks), the Italians, the HK Chinese, the mainland Chinese, the Vietnamese etc etc.

It was a scary school with alot of bullying, in my case from the leather-tanned surfie chicks....rough as guts. There was also racist graffiti in the toilets, and occassional 'wars' between the different groups. But I hear the situation has improved.

When I changed to a more prestigious school in yr 8 (thank christ!), things were different . The Chinese girls still stuck toghether, but there was absolutely no overt racism.

I have a problem with this whole 'assimilation' thing. What do people mean when they say this? Or when they say 'Asians' assimilate well, but Lebanese don't? Or that Lebanese deliberately seggregate themselves. A handful of personal experiences should not be used to characterise an entire group. Opinion based on this kind of 'data' often informs racist attitudes.

I go to UNSW which has a large international student body. Most of these people divide themselves into cultural groups, whether they're Chinese, American, Indonesian, Indian, Pakistani, or Malaysian.

Go anywhere in the world and 'foreigners'/minorities tend to group together. This seems 'normal' human behaviour from my perspective, especially when the adopted country is quite different from 'home'.

IMO it is more important to ask why people appear to seggregate themselves?

I really loathe generalisations about particular groups of people.

Sure, there are obviously some 'issues' relating to young men in the urban Lebanese community, I have myself been intimidated by groups of guys of 'middle eastern appearance' on more than one occassion...but I've also been hassled by ocker rednecks and kooris.

The common denominator seems to be youth+male+marginalised, not 'race'. This 'equation' equals anger, 'segregation', and acting out at whoever is perceived to be the 'oppressor', the 'over dog'.

Sure, some middle eastern cultures regard and treat women poorly, and may have other attitudes/beliefs that are considered 'undesirable'/unacceptable in contemporary australian society, but saying 'Lebanese' people are 'x' is ridiculous.

Angry young dudes do not represent an entire community, only an aspect of it.

It's like basing your opinion of Aboriginal culture/society on the kooris hanging out on the corner of Ebley st.

IMO it should be taken into consideration that many families who have immigated from the Middle East have experienced trauma and atrocity, poverty and abuse. As we know from the social/health/economic etc problems experienced by indigenous peoples the world round as a result of colonialism (ditto slavery), it can/will take generations for these problems to be resolved. Current problems have deep roots.

More, socio-economic and political forces here appear to exacerbate the effects of pre-existing 'issues', and contribute to social marginalisation. The media then makes matters worse, perhaps especially talk-back radio, inciting hate and intolerance, and giving some people reason to be angry.

These are some of the real roots of 'social problems', not some inherent 'racial' characteristic. There may be cultural differences sure, there may be aspects of some cultures (particularly the status of women and other attitudes and behaviours) that we don't agree with, but attributing these 'unaccpetable' behaviours and attitudes to an entire 'race' is absurd.

In the 1970s it was 'westies' vs. 'surfies', and the characteristics once ascribed to the westies bear a striking resemblance to those now flung at the 'Lebs'. The main difference now, IMO, is the current anti-islamic climate fostered by extremists, right-wing political and media scare-mongering...so now there's a focus on how 'Lebs' (i.e. muslims and anyone of 'middle eastern appearance') treat 'their own' and 'our' women...on their aggro behaviour and ostensibly extrem beliefs etc, (the flip side: on the inequity/immorality of 'the west' and 'westerners'.)

As if 'aussie' gangs have a shining reputation as 'gentlemen' and defenders of womens/minority rights. What a crock.

Go further back and it was the Irish, or the Chinese during the Gold rush that were targeted for not 'assimilating'.

The 'enemy' is determined by extant social/cultural/political 'realities' and perspectives.

Most 'gangs' appear to be 'ethnic' because gangs are composed of marginalised people...and the most marginalised in many areas of Oz are migrants from low socio-economic backrounds. Go to the U.S, and gang membership is also contingent upon the demography of the area, not some inherent racial feature that makes certain groups more likely to form gangs.

Why don't we see Indian gangs? In large part because most immigrants from the sub continent are highly educated. Why more 'middle eastern' gangs than Chinese? Again, education, socio-economic considerations play a large part. Why Vietnamese gangs in Cabramatta? It's simplistic, but one may ask : what do Vietnam and the Middle East have in common?

I find the whole notion of 'race' anachronistic and offensive. It's reductionist and doesn't account for culture, for individuality. It encourages stereotyping and division.

You can't characterise an individual or group based on their so-called 'race' anymore than you can their beliefs... it's ludicrous.