Legal Status Of Psilocybe Spores In Vic?

[kerr9456]

Hi,

Would anyone be able to fill me in on the legal status of Psilocybe and Panaeolus spores in Victoria, Australia?

Is it a similar situation to most US states where they are legal for "microscopy purposes only," but illegal to cultivate?

I am considering ordering from sporeworks but want to know if that could get me in any trouble.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Noveltea]

Hi,

try looking at the post titled "ordering MJ seeds from overseas" in the seed & plant exchange section. theres some good posts in there on customs and aqis etc.

[spiders]

shouldnt be a problem because they are sent in business-sized envelopes

[kerr9456]

Thank-you for your help. The thread on MJ seeds was indeed very informative.

For the sake of clarity (and as a quick summary for any other newbies reading this in the future) here's my understanding of the legal status and "related" issues:

* Psilocybe and Panaeolus spore prints are NOT classified as drugs because they don't contain Psilocybin

* Having them shipped from overseas DOES violate quarantine laws though (up to $2000 fine)

* Having them shipped locally would SEEM OK then.

However, some of Bluemeanie's posts on the seed and plant exchange forum implied that it wasn't OK.

Is this just a matter of providing a "tip-off" (if someone was to cultivate the spores, instead of using them for legitimate microscopy purposes)leading to a future bust? Or is it illegal in and of itself (having someone in oz send you spores)?

Again any help would be much appreciated.

BTW, as a matter of academic curiosity, are there any resources relevant to Australia which deal with the "probabilities of getting caught" side of things if someone does try to break law?

[spiders]

Trust me - no spore print you order will cause you a problem

[Torsten]

Originally posted by bluemeanie:

Trust me - no spore print you order will cause you a problem

How can you be so irresponsible to state this??

I know two people who have paid dearly for simply importing spore prints. I have explained this at least once on these forums and I am prretty sure it was mentioned in a thread you were parttaking in. Please correct your misinformation.

One person was initially hounded by customs, but when they realised that they were powerless it was turned over to Aqis. The matter went to court, the defendant paid the MAXIMUM fine of $2000, and was left with a legal bill roughly the same as the fine. He was also placed on a 2 or 3 year (details escape me right now) probation.

The other person got caught by customs too who passed it straight onto Aqis. he was also fined $2000 (the maximum quarantine penalty), however his legal fees were lower as he didn't bother with a solicitor. No probation.

Both were first offences.

There will be no drug or customs charges arising out of spore imports, but customs is onto the whole spore thing and will ensure AQIS goes all the way with it. If being fined $2000 is an acceptable risk, then I guess your statement hold true, but I would think that for most people this is not the case.

[RonnySimulacrum]

I am sorry, it was meant as a joke----really

I can now see that it was not appropriate.

So I have withdrawn the wrighting and hope that a small but bad taste joke dose no sting to hard when it should not have.

Regards Ronny

[This message has been edited by RonnySimulacrum (edited 02 November 2002).]

[spiders]

original post 'Trust me - no spore print you order will cause you a problem'

My statement implied that a spore print of a mushroom imported in a business or smaller-sized envelope SHOULD not cause you any unwarranted concern. Spore prints in general are inch sized pieces of foil or cardboard that can easily be discretely mailed.

Spore prints and most organic matter in itself can be subject to import restriction and/or quarantine by Aqis, but the spore print of any mushroom is not in itself illegal. The importation of quarantined items can attract heavy fines and i agree with Torsten regarding this matter.

Im not sure of the amount of international mail that enters Australia in such envelopes but I am making the assumption that a very small percentage of international letter-sized mail is actually inspected and from experience this assumption holds true. I for one have never, ever had a letter (unlike package) opened.

I know of friends who have imported psilocybes by the twenties in print form for some time and by cultures as well. In particular an individual was contacted by Aqis regarding the importation of a mushroom culture labelled 'pan.' This individual denied knowledge of the import and as his name was not mentioned on the package, no further action was taken by aqis and the item was destroyed.

My point would be that technically it is against quarantine regulations to import spore prints, but they are not illegal in australia. That being said, Torsten's suggestion is at best a worse-case scenario and does not hold true to the majority of spore-print importations into australia. I dont know anyone who has recounted a similar experience, and from memory Dutchie agreed. To say that my statement is 'misinformation' when it is based on an amount of experience and opinion is redundant. The statement was my personal opinion and it openly infers this and does not in any way dictate any point of expression from Torsten or anyone else. My experience recounted in other posts have no relevance to the importation of mushroom spores into Australia.

If you feel that it is somehow irresponsible to voice an opinion, then feel free to delete it.

In regards to the second post:

Luckily I havent fallen victim to the rampant need to make a film to claim governance, patronism or some exclusive ideal for what Australian mushroom use can be defined as. Or to dictate a definition of what it must mean culturally to consume mushrooms. By trying to dictate how mushrooms users must act or feel, you are marginalising the majority of mushroom users, who dont have a driving ambition to demonstrate anything about themselves to society - or the need to justify there actions to anyone.

But this doesnt matter when you have a que of ignorant uni students who have consumed mushrooms a few times and now have a full awareness of all matters regarding this issue, with the unique americanised world view. Have fun!

[This message has been edited by bluemeanie (edited 01 November 2002).]

[spiders]

I am also unsure how the above statement can be seen as 'irresponsible' when sites openly affiliated with this site sell psilocybe mushroom spores.

And Ronny I would be pleased if you chose to ignore me - it would be change from your emails requesting me to appear on your documentary.

[Guest reville]

Bluemeanie please don't get the shits too bad- i wouldnt want you to feel that you arent appreciated here, i watched you post over at EA for ages and always hoped you become involved here too. You are very good at what you research and i would like to feel confidant that you'll stick around.

I personally understood what you said about prints and shipping - and agree on the statistical safety of doing this. As people with some knowledge of the process i think this just serves as a reminder that the public commenatary we make is taken seriously by the interested public and so we have to be extra careful in what we say, basically we need a disclaimer for a worst case scenario, just like when we insist that the spores we distribute are for Microscopy only, as they are.

Ronny, i don't know what made you feel the need to bring personal gripes into this discussion unless provocation was your intent. Everyone has the right to an opinion and to like or dislike whoever they want but please keep it clean and on topic

I look forward to seeing your doco, it may or may not be a true reflection of the cultural diversity of mushroom use in your part of Australian society , but itll be a start and you only have to beat fungimentary to make it worthwhile and that wont be too hard. We do need an update /comparitive exploration for this decade. Either way im sure you will be judged on your objectivity and thoroughness in exploring the topic by your peers so id say that taking on this project is gutsy and i wish you well.

I think we need a snapshot of shrooming and community opinion now because when people actually figure out what can be done with things like Transplanting and innoculating new patches, backyard patches and indoor cultivation, that shrooms will rocket from a minor and seasonal recreational to one of the major ones with corresponding media attention and associated demonisation.

Id draw a comparison between Cannabis pre- and post-hydroponic revolution. Its good to get a doco made now before the authorities actually take it seriously and people wont talk.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by reville:

Bluemeanie please don't get the shits too bad- i wouldnt want you to feel that you arent appreciated here

I second that. Bluemeanie, you are a wealth of information and a very dedicated person. However this is the second time that you categorically stated that something would not have any legal consequences even though you are aware that it is possible (regardless of how minute the possibility!!!).

I agree that spores are highly unlikely to cause any problems, BUT fact is that they CAN and that they HAVE. Your statement was well meant, but sloppy. It did not reflect that this is your opinion based on probability, but that it is a fact.

To put this into perspective, note that my OPINION is that spores are safe, but that the FACT is that there is a tiny chance of getting into trouble. It appears that we actually agree on this matter.

When writing stuff on a site like this, there will be many people who read this (many who do not post themselves), who have little understanding of the legal realities or for that matter the legal practicalities. They look towards the people who they recongise as reliable, experienced and trustworthy for guidance. You are one such person and as such you carry more responsibility than you may like or be aware of. Making sloppy comments can cause great misery for people who do not know to differentiate them critically.

i watched you post over at EA for ages and always hoped you become involved here too.

hmm, rev, where have you been the last few months?? bluemeanie has been active here for ages.

I personally understood what you said about prints and shipping - and agree on the statistical safety of doing this. As people with some knowledge of the process i think this just serves as a reminder that the public commenatary we make is taken seriously by the interested public and so we have to be extra careful in what we say, basically we need a disclaimer for a worst case scenario

Thank you for the nutshell rev. This is exactly what I was getting at.

I didn't see Ronny's post btw, so can't comment, but it was obviously inappropriate....

As for shipping psilocybe cultures through customs, this is definitely NOT safe. Just because one (or many) person got away with it doesn't mean it is in any way safe. While spores will not land you with a customs drug offence, cultures certainly can.

I hear stories of people 'getting away with' all sorts of imports all the time, but that does not mean it is likely to be safe. That person simply got lucky with a dumb customs agent. Also given that most people can't even differentiate between customs and quarantine, I tend to take many of these stories with a grain of salt. I guess the othe rpoint is that most people who DO get busted end up dropping out of this community and we don't actually get to hear many of the negative stories.

[Guest reville]

Originally posted by Torsten:

Originally posted by reville:

i watched you post over at EA for ages and always hoped you become involved here too.

hmm, rev, where have you been the last few months?? bluemeanie has been active here for ages.

yeah i know. but before that ive been reading BM's posts with interest from aaages ago at the shroomery, then to EA and now to SAB as well. All good.

[Torsten]

Rev, I think you still have the wrong impression. Not that it matters greatly, but credit where credit is due, and bluemeanie has been here since about the time of the very first incarnation of EA forums (early April). Obviously due to the changes in software etc it isn't possible to pin down the exact date of registration at EA, but it would only be a week here or there.

Bluemeanie has made 135 posts at EA and 184 at SAB (plus whatever we have already archived/deleted).

he was very prolific at SAB initially and then made more posts at EA. Now it seems to be in a nice balance.

And no, I usually don't remember stuff like this, but bluemeanie kinda got my attention very early after joining SAB.

[spiders]

No, no, I havent cracked the shits at all, im just trying to explain where I was coming from with that statement. I suppose the main issue is that my comment was completely formed from my own opinion and does not necessarily hold true for every situation. Importing cultures is obviously much more dangerous and although you can get lucky, you can also land some suits at your door step.

No offence at all Ronny - I am not an emotional cripple - nothing said here could offend. But given your situation I was more amused at the irony than anything else.

[This message has been edited by bluemeanie (edited 04 November 2002).]