'Random' drug driver testing successful - but not all that random

[Torsten]

I am very much against drug driving, but I don't think the current tests are the way to go. It does however look like we wight be stuck with them for a while as the trial is being hailed as a success.

----------------------

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,...1690503,00.html

'Gob swab' cleans up

Apr 15 2005 08:12:50:740PM

Australia's random saliva-testing has been catching more drivers on drugs than drunk drivers caught by breathalysers.

Sydney - Police in Australia said Friday that their world- first trial of random saliva-testing was catching three times as many drug-drivers as breath tests were catching drink-drivers.

The year-long trial in and around Melbourne found one in 73 drivers stopped and tested was under the influence of either cannabis or methamphetamines.

Victorian state government Police Minister Tim Holding said the results were alarming - even though they were more targeted than the random breath tests to pick up drivers under the influence of alcohol.

"We have to be a little bit cautious with the figures because unlike our booze buses, which are in a sense more random, we have been using the drug-driving bus particularly targeting rave parties and the parts of our road network that are heavily used by truck drivers," Holding told national broadcaster ABC. "Nevertheless, the results are still very, very concerning."

In the year-long trial, the first of its kind in the world, drivers who return a positive "gob swab" are fined A$300 for a first offence and have three demerit points entered on their licences.

The trial came after a national survey in which a quarter of men under the age of 25 admitted to driving after taking an illicit drug. Of those who confessed to drug-driving, ecstasy was the drug of choice, followed by marijuana.

The biggest state, New South Wales, will bring in drug testing for drivers later this year. - dpa

[occidentalis]

Torsten:

Of those who confessed to drug-driving, ecstasy was the drug of choice, followed by marijuana.

Strange. I rarely drive and never use pot or pills, but back when I did all three I would have rated weed far higher than E as a suitable driving accompaniment. Actually I used to find driving under the influence of ecstacy quite scary and almost never did it.

[ 18. April 2005, 03:53: Message edited by: creach ]

[drellion]

 

quote:

---

I am very much against drug driving

---

Yes so im i Tort. if your gonna go and trip then dont make someone else pay the ultimate price for it. accidents happen but chances of these are very much increased when drugged up, yes??

imagine getting in your car then dropping a trip with a friend, going for a drive and taping the whole thing. then posting it on an ethnobotanic forum only to receive high praises for their work by all. you know coz thats what modern shamans should do right ??

responsible drug taking, isnt that our motto, you know where innocent people are not at risk. (i.e a family driving the other way gets cleaned up on a sweeping bend coz the drugged driver zones out for a short time and moves into the opposite lane)

you know how it goes....father killed...mother...

in a coma.....3 y/o girl amputated leg and fucked up face..... 9 y/o boy dead.(burned alive).

very dramatic.... very fuckin true...!!

at the end of the day people on drugs should not be in control of large amounts of kinetic energy. particularly if that energy can be moved around and aimed at something by a small arm movement !!

oh and i hear there will be more to come as well. surely there must be other more creative less dangerous tripping situations to film?

i was going to give this person a real good load of abuse but thought, hang on, i dont even know him. so i checked out some of his posts in the forums to discover he is well respected. 500th member on ethnobotany forum no less. his posts are usually a good read and he respects others opinions. i like his responses to "the trouble maker" in particular. but there are always 2 sides to a story in most cases as i have found. having said that i will not harp on about it after this post, i just need to get it off my chest.

being a muso myself i also think you should check with an artist BEFORE you use their music. and also not say "fuck you" i got your music anyway, just coz the artist doesnt want his gear downloaded. even if you are friends with the artist, its polite to ask before the fact.

ok i think thats about it....at last....i dont mean to diss you dude (you know who you are), but fuck man think about part 2 of the trilogy. beside the innocent you could mame / kill, you could also burn, havent you got alot more living to do???

life doesnt stop a at 30 you know. im 35 this year and have only recently got into ethnobotany, ive got a lot more to learn about myself before i depart the physical plane. surely you have to ??

oks (i dont know what sort of responses i'll get) but i havent dissed or abused you, not even mentioned your name. maybe i'll dish out some tough love when i meet you...lol...at EB5 ( i hope to be there)

peace all, Drellion.

[Chemical Shaman]

drellion:

Yes so im i Tort. if your gonna go and trip then dont make someone else pay the ultimate price for it. accidents happen but chances of these are very much increased when drugged up, yes??

This is a complete generalisation and is the most obvious flaw to the 'random' road side driver tests. Can we say for sure that you are going to drive better on a legal .04 blood alcohol level than on an illegal line of speed? Were any test done before they brought out the drug bus to show that it is dangerous for you to drive after having a line of speed? What about pot, were there any tests done that showed a difference in driving ability from a legal BAC to having an illegal joint? What about Xanax and Zoloft and Diazepam that are perfectly legal to drive on and is done so by thousands of people every day?

Have you ever had a line of speed and gone for a drive? How did you find that it affected your driving performance? Did you drive better with much better concentration and reflexes? Or were you hallucinting flying elephants doing loops in the sky? I mean drugged driving just HAS TO be the worst shit in the world right, it was in the Herald Sun wasn't it? They seem to be the most well thought out and scientifically acurate newpaper in the world.

magine getting in your car then dropping a trip with a friend, going for a drive and taping the whole thing. then posting it on an ethnobotanic forum only to receive high praises for their work by all. you know coz thats what modern shamans should do right ??

Ok a couple of things, first one being that i am not a modern shaman, or any type of shaman. The names is a joke, a bunch of silliness really. Do I look like a shaman? Secondly, consider for one moment that I didn't drop a trip before I embarked on my road trip, perhaps that was simply your assumption. Consider that maybe the whole way up north that I was high on a completely different other drug all together, perhaps one that i take almost every day and perhaps one that I consider to be perfectly safe for driving on depsite the media and the police telling me that "all drugs are bad and all drugs will kill you". Maybe this drug impedes your driving far less than a perfectly legal .04 BAC, maybe this drug is fine to drive on but still allows you to feel really really really good. Maybe other drugs do aswell. Do you have much experience driving on drugs or are you simply going off what you've been told? Have you ever driven while fatigued? Ever decided that you would skip your power nap coz you'll be home in an hour or two anyway?

Bottom line, I live my life trying to have as much fun as I possibly can without impacting on anybody elses life in any way. You can say "drug driving is satans work" or whatever till the cows come home but realistically it could be far less of a risk for an individual than any number of things that are completely legal to do on the roads, including driving at .049 BAC, driving under prescrition benzo's and anti-anxiety meds, driving while fatigued etc. Having done the trip up north numerous times I always pull over if I feel fatigued, I find the powernap thing to work really well, how many drivers do you think don't do the powernap thing, that just keep on driving while dozing off every 5 minutes? But this just has to be safe........ it's legal isn't it?

responsible drug taking, isnt that our motto, you know where innocent people are not at risk. (i.e a family driving the other way gets cleaned up on a sweeping bend coz the drugged driver zones out for a short time and moves into the opposite lane)

you know how it goes....father killed...mother...

in a coma.....3 y/o girl amputated leg and fucked up face..... 9 y/o boy dead.(burned alive).

I never put innocent people at risk, never. It's easy to generalise and just say that "if you get on the roads and you are under the influence of drugs then you are putting people at risk" but this isn't the case. it's simply another generalisation.

Also consider that it's more than possible that a few people here have been to the other side, and have seen what's next, and know beyond any doubt that nothing here on this planet and in this life means a damn, not by any stretch of the imagination, that there is nothing real about this world, nothing at all. I wont bother going into this anymore than that because I can already here the cries of "But what about my big bank account! and my degree! and my wife and kids!! This shit just has to be real!!!" No. Nothing here is real, and despite what you might think now, one day you'll see that not a single thing that you thought mattered actually did.

I live my life the way that I choose to live my life, with more morals and ethics than most people I know. I have always taken care of those around me and I always will. It's easy to get caught up in hype and to generalise that one thing is the same for one person as it is for the next but this isn't the case. We've all seen the TAC ads.

oh and i hear there will be more to come as well. surely there must be other more creative less dangerous tripping situations to film?

The DVD is in three parts, the first part is all the driving footage that was taken. The second part is an image slideshow of all the pics and stuff that I took and the third part is footage from a doof I went to. None of the other parts are going to be made available for download on the forums anyway. The reason I put up this clip is because a) I wanted people to hear mesq's music and B)i wanted people to see how well my footage worked with mesq's music. I'd like to do more video stuff for mesq's music again.

i was going to give this person a real good load of abuse but thought, hang on, i dont even know him. so i checked out some of his posts in the forums to discover he is well respected. 500th member on ethnobotany forum no less. his posts are usually a good read and he respects others opinions. i like his responses to "the trouble maker" in particular. but there are always 2 sides to a story in most cases as i have found. having said that i will not harp on about it after this post, i just need to get it off my chest.

It doesn't matter a damn whether or not a handfull of people from a forum respect me or not, if you have something to say, say it. It's that simple. I would do the same if I wanted to say something to you or to anyone, regardless of whether or not people have respect for you or even if you owned the forum or were a moderator of the forum. if you have an opinion express it. It makes no difference what or where I have posted. Im glad you were able to get this off your chest and I respect you for having an opinion. I know that there isn't anything that I can say that will ever make you believe that drug driving is ok, or pretty much anybody else here. The world is full of wowzers that like to say "something is wrong just because it it!". Realisticly you don't know me from a bar of soap, you don't know my driving abilites or what I am or aren't capable of. It's just easy to say "drug driving is bad" doesn't mean this is always the case.

life doesnt stop a at 30 you know. im 35 this year and have only recently got into ethnobotany, ive got a lot more to learn about myself before i depart the physical plane. surely you have to ??

Nope. Im pretty much ready to die now. Not in any hurry to, just don't have any issues with it. I know what comes next and im excited by it, doesn't mean that im going to go around recklessly endangering other peoples lives just because I don't take my own seriously though. I still have just as much respect for other peoples safety as anybody should..

oks (i dont know what sort of responses i'll get) but i havent dissed or abused you, not even mentioned your name. maybe i'll dish out some tough love when i meet you...lol...at EB5 ( i hope to be there)

I know what sort of responses you'll get. Of course people are going to agree with you, it doesn't matter a damn whether or not i've got respect im still "that reckless hooligan that is endangering the lives of pregnant mothers and little kids by turning my car into a machine od DEATH!"

This issue is far from black and white and there is absoloutely no standard for what is and isn't safe to do while driving. It is up to the individual, you cant just generalise and say that it all has to be bad. I know what I am and aren't comfortable doing, I sleep fine at night knowing that I do the right thing by everybody around me.

I respect your opinion and I know that I most liekly won't change it, that's fine. Believe what you want to believe and i will go on knowing what I know.

-Chemical Shaman

[smogs]

i only ever read the first paragraph of anything you say coz u write too much

but thats a good point!

were there tests done to show that influence of illicit substances causes a deteriation in driving ability. I presume it would but i still think it should be tested

im very against people driving under the influence of things too... it pisses me off when someone says "im fine" and dont understandthat their perception of fine is distorted even... and its not about the person driving. Its about the possible accidents which might end up killing someone just walking home or woteva

[faustus]

you're right, you can't generalise... i'd probably prefer a tired driver to be on speed than caffeine... or dope instead of benzos. but fuck the last thing we need is for someone to decide for themselves what is and isn't safe, especially when it involves other people's lives.

everyday people don't realise the potentially huge consequences of their tiny actions, whether those actions are illegal or not. so take whatever risks you want in life, but if/when you fuck up i hope you can live with yourself.

not nearly enough studies have been done but from a quick look on medline:

Effects of MDMA (ecstasy), and multiple drugs use on (simulated) driving performance and traffic safety.

Brookhuis KA, de Waard D, Samyn N.

Department of Psychology, University of Groningen, Grote Kruisstraat 2/1, 9712 TS Groningen, The Netherlands. [email protected]

RATIONALE: The effects of MDMA on driving behaviour are not clear, since the direct effects of MDMA on cognitive performance are reported as not generally negative. OBJECTIVES: To assess in an advanced driving simulator acute effects on simulated driving behaviour and heart rate of MDMA, and effects of polydrug use. METHODS: A group of young participants who had indicated that they regularly used MDMA were asked to complete test rides in an advanced driving simulator, shortly after the use of MDMA, just before going to a party. They were tested again after having visited the "rave", while they were under the influence of MDMA and a number of different other active drugs. Participants were also tested sober, at a comparable time at night. Separately, a control group of participants was included in the experiment. RESULTS: Driving performance in the sense of lateral and longitudinal vehicle control was not greatly affected after MDMA, but deteriorated after multiple drug use. The most striking result was the apparent decreased sense for risk taking, both after MDMA and after multiple drug use. This was clear from gap acceptance data, while the ultimate indicator of unsafe driving, accident involvement or even causation, was increased by 100% and 150%, respectively. CONCLUSIONS: Driving under the influence of MDMA alone is certainly not safe; however, driving back (home) after a dance party ("rave") where MDMA users regularly combine MDMA with a host of other drugs can be described as extremely dangerous.

[gomaos]

many years ago I heard or read this one somewhere:

"If you needed an urgent operation and you would only have the choice between 2 surgeons, one who is drunk, and one who is pumped full with morphine,

which one would you choose?

One course the one on morphine because he's likely to be calm and serene and have a steady hand (unless he would be experiencing withdrawal symptoms, which he is not, since he is full of morphine.)

The drunk would be useless, probably wouldn't know half of what he was doing, and would have shaky hands and gravity problems.

I think this is a good example, you can't just say because people who are drunk cause a lot of accidents, that all other drugs would be similar to alcohol.

because they're not.

truck drivers have been taking speed all over the world, probably for the last 100 years or so (well maybe not) for one simple reason: because it works.

it keeps you alert and awake.

as I said, the anti-driving -under cannabis politics have already led to many able drivers losing their licenses overseas, i. e. germany.

If these tests become as common as alcohol tests, it's only a matter of time until all cannabis users loose their licenses.

Because it doesn't matter if you just had a smoke 10 minutes ago or last night, it will always show.

just another move by the matrix to control everything and everybody...

[Torsten]

gomaos - the problem with truckies and speed is not when it works, but when it doesn't.

When he's done 48 hours on speed he is going to be even more useless and more dangerous than someone who's done 24 hours of driving. The problem isn't the state while they are on speed, but the state when the speed is wearing off or it is losing effect. Also, there is a huge difference between a line of speed and a line of speed every hour. Many truckies start to hallucinate after taking speed for long enough.

Also, speed is a dopamine agent which gives the user more confidence. The extra confidence is exactly the same confidence males 18-25 have and for the same biochemical reasons. It's bad enough we have 18-25 y.o. males on the road, the last thing we need is more of them.

[ 18. April 2005, 20:40: Message edited by: Torsten ]

[gomaos]

I totally agree that No-body whosoever should be allowed to drive 48 hrs continuously.

24 hrs should be the absolute limit and even that is too much.

My point is: Just because some abuse it, driven by their excessive greed for more money, doesn't mean it didn't work for most...

Totally also agree that 18-25 yrs drivers are the most dangerous...

I had all my bad accidents during that period and nothing to speak of since (knock on wood).

perhaps driver's age should be lifted to 25?

That would cut down also on a lot of emissions from car engines which are killing the planet (or so).

Because there would simply be a lot less drivers...

[mr toodly]

I support a private car ban. Private transportation is really not necessary. It is dangerous and expensive. But I'm not a great western Liberal cowboy. What do I know?

[Torsten]

r jackson - I presume you don't live in a rural area

Seriously, never had the need for a car while living in cities, no matter how far out of the centre. But in the country I could not live without it.

gomaos - I think the root of the truckie problem is not speed. This is just a symptom. The root of the problem is as you said greed. if truckies had reasonable schedules then there would be no need for speed. I doubt that so many truckies really want to be on speed all the time.

One of the best ways to remove much of the problem would be to rebuild the rail freight network and make trucking companies pay the real cost of road use. But that's another topic.

As I said right at the top, I am against drug driving, but I am also against these tests. The tests don't indicate the real problem. As mentioned, a single line of speed towards the end of a 14 hour shift might actually improve safety, but if the guy gets tested 30 minutes later he is as toast as another guy who's been doing it for 48 hours by which time he is a liability. I would approve of the tests if they indicated reliably how much speed was consumed in total in the last 48 hours. In that case a sliding scale of penalties would also be a good option. eg, a truckie who's done 2g in a 48 hour driving block should lose his license on the spot.

[ 18. April 2005, 22:28: Message edited by: Torsten ]

[2b]

A month or so ago AFOAF of swim needed to get away , so he headed to the desert NW of Horsham , he had a grand time so i was told , for three days he drove around in the sand dunes smoking and taking pills and not once seeing another person or car.On the fourth day he noticed he was getting low on fuel and headed into Renmark to pick up diesel. On his way back he was listening to local ABC and the next thing to come on is " For the first time the drug bus has left Melb metro and is in the country and is heading for the Mildura area"(ears prick up)they interview the sargent in charge of operating the bus , and he won't disclose the location but agrees that it is all right for listners to phone in if they see it.Listner phones in and says bus is 20kms up the road from swims FOAF is heading , he turns south back into the desert and takes the looooong way home. What was interesting was the interview with drug bus police operator , first they pull you over and do a blood alcohol test , if that is past you proceed to the saliva test , a sample is taken and you wait 5 minutes. If the test returns positve , yo go into the bus another sample is taken and one is given to the driver and one is taken to the lab. At no time are you under arrest , a positive result for THC-9 means you have to wait roadside for 4 hours then you can drive away , a positive Meth result means you wait road side for 12 hours. Then you drive away , at the moment it's just like a speeding ticket , no need to go to court , no loss of licence ? (Although he hinted that this will change in the future.)So what for the future ? If you smoke opium and , and do meth cathininone you'll probably be fine? As myth busters pointed out even a poppy seed cake will return positves for opiates so they are not going to start testing for opiates any time soon as the chacnces of false positives are just to great at the moment.

[occidentalis]

Just read this morning in our fine state newspaper that WA is planning to introduce 'random' drug tests based on the fantastic success of the trials in NSW.

[Chemical Shaman]

Torsten:

The year-long trial in and around Melbourne found one in 73 drivers stopped and tested was under the influence of either cannabis or methamphetamines.

Obviously the police know this figure to be complete bullshit. I remember they were hardly having anywhere near this amount of luck, then they realised that if they parked the bus outside of big rave events they could boost the number dramatically and therefore justify the costs of running the bus.

Summadayze this year was an absoloutely awesome event, with obviously about 80%-90% of the people there all taking drugs and having a great day. Then when night time came there were cops out the front with sniffer dogs tackling people to the ground (disgusting) and there was the drug bus parked down the road also. Obviously pretty much everybody that they stopped tested positive for drugs so the police were ecstatic with the results. If 90 out of 100 people tested positive to drugs that night, and during the week they randomly tested 100 people and had 10 people test positive for drugs this would then mean that 50% of all people driving on the roads are on drugs!!!!!! Wow it's a good thing they spent all that money on the drug bus.

My sister has been working on the drug bus for the past month or so just about every night (when not on the drug bus she works the booze bus), it would be interesting to know a more realistic figure of exactly how many people are testing positive to drugs on the road. Any idiot can see that setting up a bus outside a drug taking event is not going to give you any sort of indication of how many people are driving around with drugs in their system. It would be like setting up a stupidity bus outside of a police station and just testing cops.

 

Torsten:

I support a private car ban. Private transportation is really not necessary. It is dangerous and expensive. But I'm not a great western Liberal cowboy. What do I know?

Private transportation not necessary? Heh, this makes absoloutely no sense at all, even for me. Where I live public transportation is great, buses and trains all day long. Problem is, I often don't leave for work until most people are in bed, there are definately no buses etc running when I leave to go to work, my only option would be to catch a taxi.........which is a car anyway. When I finish work teh sun is just starting to come up, same deal again. Busses usually don't start running that early and not a lot of busses run on sundays anyway (i work saturday nights) so please explain to me how I am supposed to get to and from work. Also how is a mother of 5 supposed to get her groceries home from the supermarket or take her kid to the doctors or hospital late at night if they get sick. Even in the cities and suburbs private transpotation is VITAL, I certainly couldn't get by without it, most people couldn't. Also obviously as Torsten said, there is absoloutely no possible way for people in country areas to survive without it, no way whatsoever.

 

Torsten:

The extra confidence is exactly the same confidence males 18-25 have and for the same biochemical reasons. It's bad enough we have 18-25 y.o. males on the road, the last thing we need is more of them.

Im not so sure it's a matter of biochemistry as much as it is a matter of driving inexperience. Obviously 18-25 year olds do present a very real danger on the roads but I would put it down more to not enough time spent on the roads. Obviously the driving skills of a 22 year old that has been driving on his own for only 4 years can not compare to a 32 year old that has been driving for 14 years. I think age only becomes a really signifigant factor on the other end of the scale ie. the elderly. While plety of 70 and 80 year olds are perfectly fine to be on the roads and drive totally fine, I have seen SO MANY old biddies driving around worse then I would on LSD, Ketamine and G combined!! Old people are always getting involved in the most ridicuous car accidents, I can't even count how many old people I have seen just go straight through a round about without even lookin, or take out a street sign from either not paying attention while driving or just driving like a complete idiot. It would be interesting to know the statistics of traffic incidents (not neccessarily fatal) with differnt age groups etc.

-Chemical Shaman

[_e_]

personally i feel that it is an individuals responsibility to know whether or not they are able to drive, and whether or not their ability to drive is going to be impaired..

The thing is, who do u trust to do a non biased self analysis?

The only times ive ever crashed a car (ive been driving for 6 years now) have been when i thought "i really shouldnt be driving but fuck it ill be right" when in realist i really shouldnt have been driving. In both instances i knew that my driving was impaired by my co-ordination (which is bad normally) and i knew that i was at risk...They are the only times i have ever driven when i knew i shouldnt, and they are the only times ive ever crashed...

Just recently i had abdominal surgery, 3 days later i decided i was going to go into uni to pick up some research papers so i could work from home. I was on painkillers (some sort of pseudo morhpine), and was extremely uncomfortable due to post op buising and huge cuts in muscle wall. Yet i was determined to get the research papers so i could work from home..

Of course the inevitable happened and i wrote my car and another off, and was lucky not to hurt anyone.

Whilst i was doing 50km an hr and being extremely careful, my driving was impaired and in reality i knew i shouldnt have been driving....

What im saying is, yes if u KNOW your fine to drive, then drive...But if you THINK u might not be right to drive then dont...I personally feel that driving should not be a right, it should be a privillidge(sp) , we all know just how disasterous the consequences can be.

Another point id like to make is that whilst i was udner the effect of morphine, no one at the hospital or my specialist mentioned anythign about driving, and when i got home and read the package it said 'do not drive a car or heavy mationary IF EFFECTED BY DROWSINESS'... i was not drowsy, nor tired, i was 'high' but not sedated... i was actually in quite a good mood and felt on top of the world.. So if i THOUGHT i wasnt drowsy, then why did i KNOW i shouldtn have been driving?

Do you seriously trust other peoples judgement? Do u think people are able to self review objectively?

Personally i think the drug bus is an absolute waste of time and money, and that goes for the new anti drug advertising...Its obvious they arent serious about it, if they were serious about it we would know it... they just want people to think that they are serious about it.. and the cheapest and easiest way for them to make people think they are serious about it is through negative media...

just my opinion

peace

and happy driving

***E***

[ 19. April 2005, 07:19: Message edited by: min(E)rval ]

[2b]

I'm all for basic testing of co-ordination , if your co-ordinated to pass the test your co-ordinated to drive a car .Simple.The people that are just plain unco-ordinated fail (rightly so) people whos' judment is impaired fail (rightly so) people who have enough co-ordination to pass the test drive away , no matter what's in your system. Either you can or you can't.

[RonnySimulacrum]

I would love to know the average age of the people busted, because I feel they would not be either of the groups targeted in the new drug add campaigns. E.g. Parents or young drivers, but people between 22-32, but I could be wrong.

[waterdragon]

things are so easy now for those who would remove all freedoms. god it's like we're stuck on auto-regulate. all this self righteousness makes it very easy for yet another freedom to go down the gurgler. the real issue here is not driving ability - as anybody who drives smashed(on anything) is totally irresponsible - the issue for me is that lately all a person has to do is walk down the street and you risk getting thrown in prison.

it happened near here recently, a fellow with a criminal past was stopped for a search, protested, was found to be carrying a pocket knife and is now on his way to the big house. there was no victim here except the fellow charged, no harm was done by this person to anyone. how many more reasons do police need to harrass people? these laws are always heralded with the all knowing radio talkback fanfare but when someone stops to query the rights of the public they're howled down by those who seek to enslave others and those who seek to enslave themselves. fuck safety it's not worth the cost.

[ 28. April 2005, 10:36: Message edited by: waterdragon ]

[apothecary]

Mmm..everyone probably already knows this but just in case,

The drug swab thing in Victoria was a failure and a half.

The first guy they nabbed, they had the press there and everything. He tested positive for THC, denied it, sent the results to an independant lab, it came back NEGATIVE, sent it to another, came back negative...

The cops ruined his life, and won't apologise.

http://www.norml.org.nz/article526.html

Just to make you happy CS, they are doing those studies you wanted.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s838743.htm

[caludia]

i am scared of driving and the older i get, the less confident i get.

i am 30 and i was much more confident about driving when i was 20.

i dont have an opinion about drink or drug driving because it is too easily to generalize on the effects of substances on people.

but one thing i know for sure: driving is fucking dangerous, more dangerous than most ppl realize.

people's personalities often change when they drive.

mine is still as nervous as ever (torsten u saw me drive )

my solution is to avoid driving at all costs. But some people might be awesome drivers, sober, drunk, or stoned. i just hope that when i am on the road, those are the guys overtaking me. i hope that ppl who are overconfident, even when sober, are not the ones overtaking me.

in 2003 i received a concussion when a 27 year old girl slammed into the back of my car at 60km/h. I was stationary, with my right turn signal on. It was a sunny, dry day. There were no other cars on the road.

How did this happen?

She was talking on her hands-free phone in the car and was distracted.

Sober, of course.

no point to this really, but just remember how dangerous cars are, and how many people receive brain injuries and other serious injuries each year.... far, far more than is recorded in fatality stats.

Of course, rural folks have no choice. Many city folks have no choice either.

But what would be good is if some day everyone just realized: Fuck, driving is dangerous.