Salvia divinorum now as illegal as Heroin!!!!!

[MrBumpy]

Peas-pipe : I don't really care if they could get you for ingesting a poison, What I'm saying is that at the moment there is nothing (to my knowledge anyway) to say that you cannot grow Salvia divinorum in your Garden.

At the moment I am guessing that it is in the same tree as Hawiian Baby Woodrose, Morning Glory, various acacias ect.

With these plants, they are legal to grow, sell and so on UNLESS they are intended for human consumption.

Its my understanding that this law just means that we will have to start asking the gnomes and telling the everybody about the Dwarves experiences with regarding salvia, otherwise we would be confessing to an illegal activity, just like if we were to say one night we had X number of Hawiian baby woodrose seeds and then followed it off with Y number of cones Lobelia while performing an acid base extraction on a Z of Maiden's Wattle Bark.

-bumpy

[t st tantra]

my paranoid brain asks why this has happened,eg what is the catalyst for this action.there is no media hype,no public awareness,no drug deaths,no loony freak outs and no ods or other medical interventions!what has brought this plant to their attention?is this part of alarger agenda,the us war on drugs,or the control of minority groups [as with hemp].

does this have implications for our group?are entheogen users being watched/targeted?

do we need to change the way we do things?

the only thing that comes to mind is the current rolling stone article about a deseigner drug death[death prev mentioned in forum i believe

i have always assumed the control of a large range of illegal plants to be impractical,and require too much specialist knowledge of your average copper.cant see them recognising p viridis for example,let alone dealing with an argument that it was really an aust native psycotria[and may have land rights].

as others have said now is the time to circulate cuttings and plants as wide as possible.

did anyone else get hints of this in recent sage dreams,legal type paranoia for example?

my final point,who represents the plant and its rights as a genetic entity?

[Torsten]

[Originally posted by MrBumpy:

For Salvia Divinorum (the plant)to be illegal in all states, it would need to be included in each states legislation for drugs.

TGA don't have any say in whats legal to grow in your garden as an ornamental do they?

-bumpy

Wrong! The TGA regulations automatically become law in NSW and most (if not all) other states. It is writtne in the TGA act.

Please keep an eye out for a page I will be putting up soon on the details of this. Don't spread wrong information.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by MrBumpy:

At the moment I am guessing that it is in the same tree as Hawiian Baby Woodrose, Morning Glory, various acacias ect.

Wrong! None of these species are named by plant name in any of the legislations. Salvia divinorum is named by name, similarly to Cannabis.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by t st tantra:

laws regarding drugs are the domain of the states.and so different states ,different laws.

wrong! The schedule 9 is different in this regard. It is an adjunct to the state drug laws. Kinda like having two separate drug acts.

this prob relates to trade in and medical use of etc,which are federal issues.

but give the states a reason and they will follow,so as always common sense is needed by all.

wrong!. the TGA act S9 regulations clearly state that possession is included. My argument here is that a plant growing in the garden could already be classed as possession!

[t st tantra]

are there penalties listed if this is so?

t s t.

[Torsten]

I could not find any penalties for S9 (don't know why), but the maximum for S8 is 20 penalty points. No idea what that equates to in $$ or years.

Another interesting note I found is that the jurisdiction for TGA offences is the Federal court. So it appears, that you can get screwed in two courts for any TGA offences that are also drug offences (ie S8 and S9), as the TGA Act is enacted by the state parliament and thus initial jurisdiction lies with the state system. The reason why I think this is signiificant is that even if you got a salvia matter favourably through the state court, the NEXT person busted in the same state with the same offence may then be taken to federal court and NOT get as favourable a decision.

On a good note though, I am finding more and more evidence that growing salvia privately (and without harvest or use) will probably be legal. To be quite certain I will need to wait till about 3 months after the 1st of June to see if any amendmends were made in the definition of the 'prohibited plants' section of the NSW 'drug misuse and trafficking act'.

While browsing the Acts I also found that any non S8 & S9 substance is exempt from schedule if it is on paper, in matches or in explosives. So while this doesn't help salvia etc, it could probably be applied to steroids, atropine and various other interesting S4 substances

I'm going to stop reading the Acts now or I am going to go as stupid as the people who wrote them......

[coin]

///

[This message has been edited by coin (edited 10 March 2002).]

[Guest Silly Billy]

drug laws make me sad

they r stupid.

y is high bad?

d laws r insulting, its like the government telling ppl they r too stupid to take care of them selves.

hhmm i know this has all been said b4 but i wanna say it again.

its my choice if i wanna do things that make me feel good. i know there r risks... but every thing has risks. im not sure what they dislike about drugs. is it coz they make u feel happy? sex makes u feel happy.

they should ban that as well.. coz u know there is a risk of STD from sex. manny ppl have died from that . no one has died from cannabiss or saliva ( methinks) .

i seriously dont think it is a safty issue with those drugs . its something else i dont know what .. perhaps it scares government ppl ..seems unnatural to them . . .. i donno bye

[mr b.caapi]

ive got a salvia divinorum plant growing

out the back,if a cop just happened to

come around there is no way he would know

whait was,there no way near as distinctive

other illegals..E.g cannabis,poppies.etc

i think i can relax....

long live the great goddess salvia.

[Torsten]

To control trade they could have put it in S2 to S7, especially in S2 and S4.

No, I think this is an attempt to get rid of it entirely.

Maybe we should donate a few cuttings to commercial salvia nurseries and salvia collectors. As divinorum is still described as having purple flowers in most of their literature, they would not think it to be divinorum (and they certainly wouldn't be aware of the law).

Does anyone know a specis that looks very similar??

[Ed Dunkel]

I agree, get Salvia divinorum out there and make it as ornimental as possible. Salvia enthusiasts, collectors, commercial growers, nurseries, Botanical gardens, neighbours, friends and family.

Make it ridicules for them to outlaw it. The only thing is we have but a few months left. So quickly start propagating and giving away!!

Could this legislation be slowed down on grounds of much needed research that needs to be done on S. divinorum. They could study how the consumption of this "drug" changes before and after it is made illegal. Actually, they would hate a study like that. It would most likely show how that they are making another mistake.

E D

[Ed Dunkel]

Could someone sell/donate her a Salvia divinorum. She recons it's hard to get and she knows of no nursery selling it or anyone that has it.

http://salvia.xoasis.com/

E D

ps. I'm sure there are some others around Oz like this

[Torsten]

she was the one I had in mind

yes, I can donate one if no one else can. Possibly not for a few weeks though (before June 1).

[Darklight]

Originally posted by Ed Dunkel:

Could this legislation be slowed down on grounds of much needed research that needs to be done on S. divinorum.  They could study how the consumption of this "drug" changes before and after it is made illegal.

I've been wondering when such an opportunity would come up in such a sitch for years.

Is anyone here in a position to undertake such a study- PhD sociology or anthropology or law students for example? Or someone in a position to recommend such a study to an edicational or legal body

A starting point would be easy, first finding out when the plant first became publicly avail here ( no names no pack drill ) and then using whatever figures businesses are prepared to release for sales over years. Allow an increase in successful clones via the increase in information avail for decent propagation and living conditions, the number of hospitalisations or convictions as a result of salvia intake only AND in combination. That gives a few years of baselines to start from.

Progress could give an idea as to the effect prohibition has on market forces, health issues and the sociological impacts of criminalisation. Could be undertaken as separate but linked projects over a number of years.

Not me but, my hands are full. One of those Nice Ideas Someone Else Should Do which I always rail against

[Andrew]

I,ve had correspondence with Sue Templeton

for about 12 months(just told her about the S.D. legal issues last week),I saw the post concerning her and offered her some cuttings

(waiting for a reply)but now I,m thinking

does she really want it?I know Sue has grown it before and she knows I have it, so possibly that message on her site is to discourage people from bothering her.Ed have you actually talked to Sue it did you just read the catalogue?see ya,s.

[Torsten]

(just told her about the S.D. legal issues last week)

Pity. there goes that idea.

[MrBumpy]

Would it still be possible for drug companies and such to use the plant to see if they could make any new spiffy wonder drugs to cure the world of all illnesses and make a patent that will give them big bucks?

-bumpy

[Ed Dunkel]

Sorry Adrian,

Just bumped onto her website and read the catalog while I was looking for Salvia societies, clubs and nurseries. The last 5 minutes before I went home so it was a rushed post.

I might see if I can contact any Botanical garden curators and such and offer a plant (the last one left after the mother). Might have to start with cuttings again and offer those.

laters,

E D

[Torsten]

Maybe just plant some in the botanic gardens and let figure it out

tropical house for vic though.

[Gwydion]

Just thought you all might like to know this.

Last sunday (a little over a week ago), I had occasion to talk to a man who claims his best friend is in hospital in a coma as a result of Salvia divinorum.

He claims his friend had had nothing else other than the salvia at the time, and that the doctors are unclear as to what or why it has happened (which ties in unfortunately with our knowledge- or lack thereof- of how Salvia works).

What is most startling, however, is the fact that it took place in October last year, BEFORE the decision to schedule was made.

The guy is still in a coma.

Hope this throws some more light on the circumstances.

[This message has been edited by Gwydion (edited 16 April 2002).]

[waterdragon]

that is some spooky shit. i've seen people almost laugh themselves to death on sal div but a coma is less than good.

[waterdragon]

i'll just make some adjustments to my dosage notes. level 7 = coma. could there be a level 8?

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Gwydion:

What is most startling, however, is the fact that it took place in October last year, BEFORE the decision to schedule was made.

the decisions was foreshadowed in august and referred for decision for the en of year meeting.

So while this coma thing might have weighed in for the final decision, it certainly was not part of the initial recommendation.

Are there any more details about the coma patient?? Even the state this is in would help.

[Darklight]

Originally posted by Gwydion:

and that the doctors are unclear as to what or why it has happened (which ties in unfortunately with our knowledge- or lack thereof- of how Salvia works)

Was his friend with him at the time the salvia was consumed? Could it possibly be damage sustained from an unsupervised level six where he was unable to be restrained and the coma is the result of injury secondary to the ingestion?

How soon after the ingestion did the condition present itself? Immediately on intake, after the comedown, soon after that or some time?