Having germination troubles.

[apothecary]

Hi guys,

I've been reading up on peyote, how to care for it, what it's used for and the amazing properties it contains.

I was so intruiged in fact, that I hit the SAB website and bought a few seed packs of various Lophs (williamsi, williamsi v decipens, diffusa).

Using the little yellow rectangle of paper that came with the seeds, along with Erowid's "Visionary Cactus Guide" I attempted germinating 6 of the seeds.

I got a tupperware container, and 6 small clay pots, and some sterilised cactus mix. I put some rainwater (about 1cm deep) into the bottom of the pot, and put the pots in the container. I put 1 seed in each pot, then sprinkled the tiniest amount of soil over each seed. I then closed the lid and the container has been in the sun for about 2 weeks now.

I check on it every day to see if anything has sprouted and allow some air in, but still no luck! Attached are some photos. I'm sure humidity must be high because there is lots of condensation on the roof and the side of the container.

Any advice guys? Am I just being impatient, do the seeds still have a chance to sprout? Any help is appreciated.

[ 08. January 2005, 18:27: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[mr b.caapi]

hmmm is it directly in the sun???

if so the humidity may be to high,causing rot.

the shade(if its warm) is far better,as long as a little filtered light is getting through.

[apothecary]

I'm sorry, I'm inexperienced with growing cacti so if I sound like an idiot, bear with me :/

Yeah it's in direct sunlight I'd say for about 10 hours of the day. Long enough that the pots seem to stay warm for the night until morning if the day before was hot.

I don't understand what you mean by rot? Rot of what? Do the seeds rot? Or do you mean possibly the seed has germinated and its root is rotting underneath the soil?

I'll try moving it to the shade tomorrow morning, but I'm not sure if temps will be adequate...the visionary cactus guide said peyote liked 80-90F temps for germination which google tells me is 26-32 Celsius.

[gerbil]

hi apothecary,

I'll take a stab and say those seeds you sowed won't make it to seedlings, they may have already sprouted and they probably have been cooked by the sun.

Young peyote especially seedlings can't handle strong light and will die easily, if they survive sunburn they will have stunted growth but will get a move on soon enough. You want them under very soft light. Fluorescent lights with heat mats are great, even fluros can burn them up easily too.

You are aiming for good constant bottom heat between 25-35 for best results, 30 should be ample. In that closed container in the sun, the temperature is way above 30.

Also you are after good air exchange, but humidity whilst germinating is beneficial.

You should get sprouts within a week of sowing, some may come up after months though.

Getting cacti to grow from seed can be a pain but is well worth it once you get the hang of it, so definately keep at it and don't let non-germinations get you down. Cacti from seed makes people understand patience imo, peyote definately is top of the class in that regard. Best of luck!

edit: BAH! sorry, took too long writing the response lol

[ 08. January 2005, 18:40: Message edited by: gerbil ]

[planthelper]

next time place the tupperware container somewhere where it recieves only "save" light levels. aswell keep the lid open a bit...

verandas facing the morning or evening sun make good places for lophs, but even than use shade cloth, if the sun hits the area too strong.

loph babys are the most sensitive against sun light, rather give them too little of everything than too much, like this you might have a slower growth rate, but at least your lophs will survive.

[ 09. January 2005, 08:07: Message edited by: planthelper ]

[Rev]

if its consolation im having troubles too

im starting to suspect that the seed going around may be getting old

Mine isnt from SAB but i can only assume there arent too many bulk peyote seed producers out there so its prob the same origin

will keep on trying but its looking decidely non cost effective at 30c a seed with low success

[Torsten]

yep, that seed is cooked.

Also, do your pots have holes in the bottom? you don't want the water going stagnant!

Seed varies in quality, but the retailers are limited as to their wholesale sources, so all we can do is try our best. WE don't sell any cactu seed with viability under 50%. Most is much higher. For Loph beginners I recommend the plain normal Loph williamsii rather than the various varieties. The plain one gives consistent germination between 85 and 95%. Survival is obviously much lower and depends on conditions and often just luck.

[apothecary]

Thanks for the replies guys. I still have some seeds, I'll be trying to germinate them in a cooler spot.

Torsten, the pots have holes. I did a very large amount of reading before I even germinated the seeds, I don't like rushing into things like growing plants.

I did about 3 weeks of research before I planted my first mary seed, and the same applies here.

[Barking Lotus]

ahoy there mateys,

I myself am also inexperienced with growing cacti and have just ordered some L.williamsii and T.bridgesii seed from SAB. Was wondering if someone in the know could tell me if this site

http://www.plot55.com/growing/general/cacti_seed.html

I stumbled on is a good guide for seed propagation. Have a look Apothecary, it might be able to help you out some, if you havnt already read the info elsewhere. I still have a fair bit of reading to do but will get there.

cheers,

BL

[Humanfuel]

One thing you may have done wrong was place more mix on top of the seeds..... the first time I tried to germinate Lophs.... I did the same!!!!!..... But some one here told me not too...... Try just dropping the seeds on top of the damp Mix..... and DO Not cover with more sand.....

[apothecary]

Humanfuel, I seriously only put a pinch...maybe 1mm of soil. You reckon I should just leave it uncovered? Maybe next germination I'll try a few different techniques.

[Humanfuel]

It worked for me..... But also try put in a cooler spot as the other guys said.... you Don't want to over heat BUT do need the Humidity.... to soften the seed cover and prevent the seedling from being capped!!!! Good Luck with your next attempt!!!!

[smogs]

i would vote for cooked too... also as not noted above

also helps if nighttime temp is cooler than daytime

i have used lights and heat mats but i find by far the easiest is 50/50 peat and sharp sand mix in take away frood containers

get them pretty wet but not soaking... microwave with lid on but not sealed for a few mins until steaming

put on lid and leave over night

next day gently put seeds in rows with steralsied tweasers (they get into nasty places tweasers)... this helps u know how many germinated etc

then use a plant sprayer to spray seeds... this buries them a bit

i then seal it up and put on my balcony right near the wall where they are in shade all day except about 1 hr in afternoon where its filtered light

then forget about them for a few weeks

[planthelper]

very good post smogs, but i think the sterilized tweezers are an overkill.

i heartly understand what you mean by saying "now you can forget them for weeks".

you mean that beginners often to the mistake of, "wanting to do something so they germinate faster or better" whilst in fact nothing more needs to be done. no carrying from a (the sun) to b (into the shade), no frequent mistings, no frequent watering...

i would check on them though once every few days, because unless your setup is very good things can unexpectedly wrong, the cover might have come off, the rain might have got it or the dog poked his nose into it.

so do check regularly, after all my fastes germ rate with fresh loph seed was only 3 days!!

[teonanacatl]

with the set up im using now ive been getting 50% germination in 4 days and almost 100% germination all up (this is with trichocereus's) had some dragon fruit seeds come up the next day. all i do is sterilise the soil, soak it in water, pour into foam box wait till it cools sow seeds, spray with copper oxychloride then water and put a glass sheet on top. every day i go out and wipe of the condensation on the inside of the glass off. after 2-3 weeks i take the glass half off and sprinkle the fine stuff in coarse sand about 2mm over the cacti, this knocks off seed coats and give stabiliseation. the humidity here is over 70% normally so they dont suffer from having the glass off half. after another week off comes the glass and some more sand is sprinkled. with temps inside each foam box reaching almost 40* celcius everyday or so and ive had no problem with fungi yet. they now just stay where they are for 6 months.

here are some pics

http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kaleidosc...lorax/my_photos

[smogs]

the lids shouldnt come off because seal well... i check on them once a week for fungi and give a spray of dilute anti fungal stuff if i see any.... also evry now and then i take lids off and rest back on top... with a little gap to let air exchange and to let them dry out a bit for about a day (dont do it when its windy or you lose lids!)

dont forget to mist again afterwards.

as for moving... it takes like an hr of full sun to kill them all! so too much work and remembering... better to spend the time to find a good spot

and i dont steralise tweasers i just put that in coz ive had it mentioned and DONT want to imagine where they get to in other peoples bathrooms

[devils_cactus]

Seeds (loph) I got recently from SAB were good!

however all but 2 burned up (I am much more careful now)

Keep germinating!

Good Luck

[Rev]

its harder to cook them than burn them

ive noticed they love it hot but they frazzle with too much irradiation

to solve this is wrap the dome in opaque white bin liner

perfect shade

[sobriquet]

I think people forget that these plants grew for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years without a human hand touching them. Cacti are desert plants and survive in very hot climates with intense sun. Texas, mexico and arizona are intensely hot places on the earth.

Many years ago I grew some lophs with no special knowledge whatsoever, fully outdoors in full sun. They grew without any problems. I got 5 plants from about 40-50 seeds then. A low rate? For sure, but that's what it's all about. Natural selection gets the plants that WILL survive our conditions rather than try your hardest at growing the weaker plants or unsuitable plants.

That's just my philosophy though. I don't worry too much about such things and do the absolute minimum to get things to grow. Others will have different approaches and that's cool too.

[apothecary]

eNo, yeah no offense but 4/50 seems like a waste of seed to me now..

I've learnt a lot since I started this thread and usually get 80%+ germination on all cacti seeds with good survival rates...

[Dodie]

Its in our nature to get the best results we can, if we can do it why not? Who knows if you put in a little more effort you could come out with some freaks or have more seedlings to try grafting and just experimenting.

0z's conditions are very different to their natural habitat. It'd be too much effort to find a sandy well drained soil under a nice shady/humid tree

[mr toodly]

Natural selection gets the plants that WILL survive our conditions rather than try your hardest at growing the weaker plants or unsuitable plants.

Or WILL be more likely to germinate in some cases. The seed still has the potential to produce a runt that could not survive in any natural conditions - i.e. an albino.