Captain_Marshmallow Posted October 25, 2004 Hi All, I have found Lophophora ceaspitosa for sale at my local nursery. After limited reasearch I assume that it is L. williamsii var. ceaspitosa. The seedlings are about the size of 20c peices and they cost between $15 - $20. If anyone could answer these questions before I buy one I would appriciate it. 1. Are the alkaloids in this cacti present in similar levels to normal williamsii species? 2. Could I graft one onto my scop. at this size or would I have to let if grow a bit bigger? Thanks in advance The captain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smogs Posted October 25, 2004 i can answer the graft question more than adequet size to graft u can graft 6 month old seedlings if your good (which i am not because they always die ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted October 25, 2004 That price is really good value for that size. I'd buy a few. L.will. var caespitosa is a variety that produces abundant pups (I think). I don't know if potency is any different from the standard williamsii. However, grafted buttons are thought to be less potent because alkaloid synthesis rate does not increase as fast as growth does on the graft. The idea is you take your buttons of the graft once they have reached sufficient size and let them become rooted and grow for a year or so to accumulate alkaloids. There are many discussions here about the sustainability of consuming L williamsii. The plant grows extremely slowly and you need a few of them for a dose. In my opinion they are an ornamental plant only as they are far too precious to eat but in 50 years when I have a carpet of them I might think differently (where/when legal). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Dunkel Posted October 25, 2004 They sometimes sell L. williamsii var. caespitosa as L. caespitosa (that is how I bought mine) Loads of little head (thus caespitosa) I grafted one of the little heads (1-2 cm, the bigger the better)onto a Myrt... geomet... (always get this name wrong) and is growing very well. IT IS FLOWERING A WE SPEAK!!!!!!! (pollen anyone?) A scop graft would probably work too. Alkaloid profile is, I recall, different to L. williamsii but I'll have to check Trout's Notes for that. I also remember it to be a point of disscusion (differences in published results between researchers) [ 25. October 2004, 17:29: Message edited by: Ed Dunkel ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 25, 2004 Technically var caespitosa is not a recognised variety and is in fact just simply L.williamsii. Whether or not it has different alkaloid profile I don't know. Problem is that many people graft them and then compare the potency to their size, which is bound to give poor results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philistine Posted October 25, 2004 might have to jump on this thread here, coz I got a question of my own. Do buttons on v. caespitosa ever get bigger than say, 5cm? All the photos Ive seen of mature plants seem to have a multitude of buttons :D or do they just reach a particular size and then divert growth energy to sprouting more pups? cheers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon Posted October 26, 2004 Do buttons on v. caespitosa ever get bigger than say, 5cm? I have had a plant for about 5 years now and each button seems to max out about the size you mentioned so over time you just get more of the around 5 cm buttons Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 26, 2004 v.caespitosa has the potential to get bigger. I hade one of these and continually chopped the pups off quite deep into the parent tissue. This appears to have removed it's ability to produce pups and for the last 3 years this plant has grown bigger and bigger - well beyond the 3cm. forma caespitosa (the one that doesn't flower/seed) definitely seems to have this limit though as I've tried to limit it pupping and even then it had no interest in growing any bigger and just put more energy into pupping. btw, if anyone has forma caespitosa I wold be VERY interested as mine died a few years ago (they appear to be more prone to rot). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted October 26, 2004 Maybe jack could measure some of his? http://www.shaman-australis.com.au/cgi-bin...ic;f=6;t=000589 Some of them look pretty heafty. Daniels pic looks like they get bigger than 5cm aswell http://www.shaman-australis.com.au/gallery...2070percent.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 26, 2004 Daniel's pic is one I took at a local nursery. Yeah, they are definitely bigger than 3cm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack Posted October 26, 2004 The biggest button is 9cm in diametre, this plant is over 30 years old! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philistine Posted October 26, 2004 I stumbled across this link that seems to shed some light on this topic... http://www.koehres-kaktus.de/galerie/kakte...een/k_l_m1.html Some of the names confuse the hell out of me, but this is by far some of the best cactus porn Ive ever seen! Apologies if this has been mentioned before... PS. Jack, that cactus is *awsome*! [ 26. October 2004, 18:27: Message edited by: philistine ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack Posted October 27, 2004 You should see it in the flesh, i sit outside staring at it and puting my hands on them and feeling the energy. Its not looking the best it has looked and hasnt had water for a while. It will look much better in a couple of months, more pics then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
