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Wile E. Peyote

The Tania de Jong Unappreciation Thread

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https://mindmedicineaustralia.org.au/wp-content/uploads/Mind_Medicine_Australia_The_Conversation_Crititque_26012021.pdf
FYI MMA did not cut their funding to PRISM, PRISM chose to part ways because their values did not align with the approach of MMA

I was also planning to post some juicy Twitter exchanges but the MMA clean up crew are saving Tania's ass by deleting her impulsive replies. I'm sure there'll be more, stay tuned...

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I don't know any of the backstory here, but for a "trained soprano" that fucking sucked

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I was expecting her to play up, I was not disappointed

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Not exclusively about TDJ but some more MMA bullshit;


https://theconversation.com/will-australia-legalise-ecstasy-and-magic-mushrooms-to-treat-mental-illness-heres-why-its-still-too-soon-150448

“Stephen Bright is a Director of the DGR-1 charity, Psychedelic Research in Science & Medicine Ltd (PRISM). Stephen Bright has had no formal association with Mind Medicine Australia, except through its allocated funding of PRISM's support of clinical research at St Vincent's Hospital Melbourne.

Martin Williams is Executive Director of the DGR-1 charity, Psychedelic Research in Science & Medicine Ltd (PRISM), and receives fellowship funding from the Vasudhara Foundation. Martin Williams previously consulted to Mind Medicine Australia (MMA) as Scientific Officer, from 1 April 2019 to 31 March 2020. PRISM received tax-deductible donations from MMA in March and November 2019, allocated entirely to the first year of the St Vincent's Hospital Melbourne clinical trial of psilocybin-assisted therapy for anxiety and depression associated with terminal illness. Martin Williams resigned from the role of Scientific Officer with MMA on 4 April 2020, and PRISM terminated its arrangement with MMA on 4 September 2020, in relation to concerns about the ethics and stated positions of MMA Directors regarding stakeholder engagement, the role of Australian clinical research in support of psychedelic psychotherapy, and broader aspects of public health in Australia.”


https://mindmedicineaustralia.org.au/wp-content/uploads/Mind_Medicine_Australia_The_Conversation_Crititque_26012021.pdf?utm_content=buffer12ed6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3piJMnTDaPnMIvLSNRCMYWQA2RmBQsSkRvcD-mwrSeR002QQsl4gEZuSw
“Mind Medicine Australia (MMA) was one of the leading funders of PRISM in relation to the development of the St Vincent’s trial. MMA cut its funding to PRISM in October last year because of PRISM’s lack of accountability for the funds which we had given to them and for its failure to report back to us regularly as a major donor.”

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Posted (edited)

MMA got a brief run on 7:30 (ABC TV) last night (Mar. 11). 

Along with former Federal Trade Minister Andrew Robb, the segment featured a user video with subtitles, in which someone claimed to have received the beneficial equivalent of 15 years' therapy in a single night. 

No wonder the RANZCP (also featured) is dragging its heels on this issue. It advised against the re-scheduling of psilocybin and MDMA.

The math is pretty straightforward.  

Edited by fyzygy

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Posted (edited)

You can watch the ep on iView here https://iview.abc.net.au/video/NC2101H040S00

I was saddened by the lack of TDJ and accompanying vocals. Here I was thinking this was part of the MMA brand. Bring back the racist soprano I say.

In all seriousness though, the only tangible benefit of rushing the current rescheduling ahead of clinical evidence is to the business around these substances, and perhaps the wealthy few who will be able to afford and access treatment. Can't say concern for the welfare of either of these groups are particularly high on my list of priorities.

 

I think people suggesting this move would bolster decrim efforts are very mislead, and it is sad to see arguments around this issue dividing the community. Fuck off MMA. We don't need you and I sure as hell would never trip in the same room as you. How long til EGA get their slot on the 7:30 report?

Edited by Wile E. Peyote
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I certainly agree Wile E.  With the utmost respect to the great minds, good intentions and efforts at work around rescheduling, decriminalization and legalization, I ask where are we going with all this?

 

I may be unduly pessimistic (fingers crossed i am) but doesnt corporatization and consumerism just,  and without fail, fuck everything up.  TDJ and MMA are getting lots of air time lately and is becoming positioned (at least as far as the media is concerned)and with bogus therapist training courses, to be the shape of things going forward.  Where are PRISM,MAPS, EGA, who have done the work, in the media landscape?

Passed up for 'the rasict soprano'.  

 

Leaving the future of psychedelic therapy in the hands of the venture capitalists, not the shaman.  In the hands of the self interested individual not the communal mind.  Connected to the $ and Pharma, not to reconnect with our planet.  As a species for survival we need to reconnect and stop seeing ourselves as separate from mother nature but given a 'set' that is clinical is that as likely to happen?

Perhaps without realizing it we are living the last of what are the good ole days, where the plants were part of a community as folk medicine not part of consumer culture as a patented pill.

 

Tania your singing is flat and may your next trip lead you to some humility.

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23 minutes ago, Humboldt said:

Perhaps without realizing it we are living the last of what are the good ole days, where the plants were part of a community as folk medicine not part of consumer culture as a patented pill.

Unduly pessimistic, I think. Wherever there is power, there resistance will be. Wherever concrete, weeds. Underground is where the magic abides.

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Where we’re going is hard to say, there are a lot of diverse interests intertwined in the drug law reform movement. If its up to me I say let’s get the drugs to the people! But I know I can be irresponsible, so maybe it is good there are other opinions to balance things out :P 

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Maybe it depends on the plant species. I notice that the Native American Church is broadly opposed to the decriminalisation of peyote, fearing further exploitation of this endangered species. (Non-Native Americans should try an alternative medicine, according to an official Church statement.) 

 

In any event, the clinical space will probably be dominated by synthetic analogs ... for better and/or worse. 

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I think it is more a case of the NAC trying to cash in than concern for conservation, as trucha was explaining just the other week.


Maybe TDJ has more in common with drug 'traditions' than is apparent at first glance.

In terms of drug law reform, I think conservation is a good way of countering drug stigma by expressing positive narratives about drug use. Kinda similar to the origin of the term entheogen. Psychedelic drug user sounds a lot worse than entheogenic conservationist!

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Perhaps such therapies should be free, keeping the corruptive monetary gain at bay.  The medical model hasnt done a very good job of tackling mental health anyway.  Social determinants have a stronger link to mental health causation than the theory of chemical inbalance.  Perhaps a broader social outlook on mental health is better.

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1 hour ago, Wile E. Peyote said:

I think it is more a case of the NAC trying to cash in

How would they be "cashing in"?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Humboldt said:

the theory of chemical inbalance.  Perhaps a broader social outlook on mental health is better.

Ironically, the theory of chemical imbalance (Prozac et al.) derives from LSD research (go figure!). But a more holistic approach to mental health: absolutely! The cash nexus is a significant cause of psychological distress, in my experience. The love of money is the root of all evil, as is written in the very scriptures these fuckers (often) cling to (if not always openly). 

Edited by fyzygy
Clarity

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Posted (edited)

MMA gets another free plug on ABC TV News, at around 10:45 this morning. 

$15 million federal funding?

Edited by fyzygy

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Yeah check it out, this is the press release for the $15 million federal government grant for a psychedelic clinical trial:

https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-greg-hunt-mp/media/15-million-for-development-of-innovative-therapies-for-mental-illness?fbclid=IwAR1y7LwCz2oQjmUVm4Ei2mS3oaM1hiJMjciKLO0bv13uKTKGNhOYIeju9eQ

P.S. NAC are cashing in by trying to monopolise wild harvested Loph. KT suggested most NAC consumers have only been following the tradition for ~100 years at most while people with far older consumption traditions " lack any legal right to consume it since they are not members of federally recognized tribes." 

Psychedelics be makin' it rain

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At least MMA won't be getting any of that money because they have no clue about research, LOL

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1 hour ago, Wile E. Peyote said:

At least MMA won't be getting any of that money because they have no clue about research, LOL

Tsk tsk Wile, have you not learned anything about how this government allocates funding?

The less qualified, and the more stacked with LNP cronies, the more likely they are to get funding! Andrew Robb on the board of MMA...

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48 minutes ago, Wile E. Peyote said:

P.S. NAC are cashing in by trying to monopolise wild harvested Loph.

Similar to the way Indigenous Australians are "cashing in by trying to monopolise" species that grow natively on their ancestral land? Or closing off Uluru to tourists, in the interests of nature conservancy? (Shouldn't press the analogy too far, since Native Americans have specific legal rights to their sacred medicine).

Obviously the formal NAC is only about 100 years old; and the sacramental use of peyote an estimated 10,000 years. The NAC works in conjunction with the Indigenous Peyote Conservation Initiative, "empowering Indigenous communities to reconnect with, regenerate, and conserve their sacred Peyote medicine." Sustainable harvest seems to be the priority. I don't believe the NAC or IPCI makes Church membership a prerequisite for ethical harvesting and consumption of wild peyote.

The US law does, however, make its exemption on the grounds of Native American "religion." But the law doesn't specify NAC membership either; being a Native American (or "Indian" as I think the statue has it) is enough. Like most religious institutions (I can think of a couple of exceptions, actually), the NAC has to operate within the limits of the law. So is acting responsibly and appropriately, I would say, under the circumstances. 

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To get the funding they would need to either a) come up with their own research project or b) jump on the back of someone who is capable. Fortunately they don't have the know how for a) and MMA have burned the fingers of too many scientists for b). Gosh I really hope I don't have to eat my words on this one that would hurt...

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No, I don't believe this situation has a parallel with these First Nations Australian issues fzygy. As a colonial white person I'm always hesitant to discuss indigenous issues but I respect KT as an expert on this, he has dedicated his life to these plants. I've heard similar arguments being made by Martin Terry, most recently in the Peyote Files series. I'm yet to be convinced conservation is at the heart of the NAC's involvement of this issue. 

Happy to chat about this more, but let's keep it to the in-situ Loph or harvest ethics thread - I'll cross post this reply in one of those. This way we will have a better chance of a reply from a local expert plus I won't get distracted from slinging poo at TDJ. 

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