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Responsible Choice

Harvesting caapi?

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Hi all,

 

I have some questions around the harvesting of banesteriopsis caapi vine.

 

What is the process involved in harvesting the vine? Do people only cut it back so far? Is the material then dried? If so how? What thickness is a go/no go? Do people generally keep leaves and all, or just vine?

 

Any info around this would be greatly illuminating.

 

Cheers,

RC

Edited by Responsible Choice
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hi i brought some caapi leaves dried on ebay recently 50 dollers  for 30 grams goes well in certain smoking blends. If you have alot you could prob look up a tec to extract the leaves to x 10 sorry i cant help with your other questions cheers

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Jeesus h. $50 for 30 grams!

Mate next time hit me up, I'll fill a bag for you for the price of postage.

 

Harvesting vine, the thicker the better.

Anything around a finger thickness is fine for a brew. I find fresh vine makes a sweeter tasting brew than dried, but either is fine. Dried is easy to measure doses, say 90g dried per serve. Fresh, you need to estimate what the water content is, and I usually go for 150g per serve.

You can make an extract if you're wanting to capsule it or for other uses. Vine is MUCH MUCH easier and less messy than leaves, even though by weight leaves contain more active alkaloids. Brews made with leaves don't settle as well as vine. You end up with a very fine suspension. Not really an issue if you just want a brew. If you're extracting, you might find adding a clearing agent like gelatin might help clear your solution before basing.

All theoretically speaking of course...

You can cut your vine right back to a stump and it will shoot again, faster and thicker.

I mostly wait until my vines fall off their supporting trellises and cut. This wind usually helps.

Even small tendrils are worth saving for use.

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Oh yeah forgot about the drying part...

I cut vine into sections that are about a finger length then just let them sit around. Sometimes in the sun, sometimes in the dark. There's no rules. You can leave it in longer sections, it will just take a bit longer to dry. Dried stuff tends to break up into finer pieces or even powder. Fresh stays stringy and fibrous. You probably get a more efficient extraction with dried due to this. Personally though, if I'm making a brew, I like fresh. You could freeze fresh stuff then thaw it to lyse cell walls a bit, but not sure it's terribly effective seeing as it's quite woody.

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Ah Glaukus, thank you for your wise counsel. :worship:

 

Exactly the type of info I was after. My vine has gone bonkers and needs a definite cut back before it completely absorbs my guava. :wink:

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26 minutes ago, Responsible Choice said:

Before it completely absorbs my guava. :wink:

Now that's an ethnobotanical double entendre if ever I heard one!

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^Indeed!

 

Now let's just say someone had some Nexus psychotria as well. What kind of ratio of vine to psyc is a common admixture? :huh:

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17 hours ago, Glaukus said:

Jeesus h. $50 for 30 grams!

Mate next time hit me up, I'll fill a bag for you for the price of postage.

 

Harvesting vine, the thicker the better.

Anything around a finger thickness is fine for a brew. I find fresh vine makes a sweeter tasting brew than dried, but either is fine. Dried is easy to measure doses, say 90g dried per serve. Fresh, you need to estimate what the water content is, and I usually go for 150g per serve.

You can make an extract if you're wanting to capsule it or for other uses. Vine is MUCH MUCH easier and less messy than leaves, even though by weight leaves contain more active alkaloids. Brews made with leaves don't settle as well as vine. You end up with a very fine suspension. Not really an issue if you just want a brew. If you're extracting, you might find adding a clearing agent like gelatin might help clear your solution before basing.

All theoretically speaking of course...

You can cut your vine right back to a stump and it will shoot again, faster and thicker.

I mostly wait until my vines fall off their supporting trellises and cut. This wind usually helps.  

Even small tendrils are worth saving for use.

thanks pretty pricey I know but i was keen to try it out,and glad I did its so mild to smoke with other things probably be in touch  next time im after some cheers 

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7 hours ago, Responsible Choice said:

^Indeed!

 

Now let's just say someone had some Nexus psychotria as well. What kind of ratio of vine to psyc is a common admixture? :huh:

Ok, I have heard nexus is about half as strong as regular viridis, and for viridis you'd need 100-120g. So probably 200-250g of nexus per serve.

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following....

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I have a question that is related to harvesting caapi.

It is actually a question that has been bothering me for many years.

In the caapi vine sections that are generally used for a brew, where are the alkaloids.

Is it in the central woody part of the vine, or is it in the inner bark of the cortex.

I can't find a definitive  answer anywhere.

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I'd say it's distributed through the core wood mostly. 

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Most people only guess at the answer. I'd take your answer as a guess.

I've never found a definitive study even addressing the issue.

If the alkaloids are distributed in both, then what percentage of total alkaloids in each.

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I would've assumed there to be a variable distribution, as in the leaves to bark ratio. Any study can't be even close to definitive because of the real world variables that affect alkaloid production in any plant. Take a vine from the jungle and compare it to a backyard homegrown vine and I wouldn't be surprised to see dramatic differences across all plant matter, including roots. Hooj guess of course :wink::P

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I appreciate your answer. However alkaloid levels in caapi has been studied and measured on countless occasions.

Alkaloid levels in caapi leaf has been measured on numerous occasions

These studies weren't pointless, we have learnt something from them.

We've learnt about alkaloid range and how vine sections generally compare with leaf.

I think an important question in this regard is what percentage of the material is actually inner bark.

If it is substantial then the question becomes very important, rather than something that can be disregarded.

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Vine doses are measured by weight, and by weight, they are mostly wood. There wouldn't be a linear relationship between weight and dose if the majority of alkaloids weren't in the wood. But it might be an interesting experiment to try. I'm happy to try some amateur science to add some data.

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I love science, the bigwigs are often too stupid to know how to do it, which is why underground science still exists.

I'll be staying tuned and be stoked for any data added.  :)

 

Edited by Mycot
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On 16/10/2020 at 6:35 PM, Glaukus said:

I'd say it's distributed through the core wood mostly. 

i think it's mostly in the cambium layer, not the woody core.  we don't know why plants contain alkaloids, but often they are seen as a defence mechanism.

the woody core doesn't need to protect it's self but the outer cambium part is vital for survival.

On 26/09/2020 at 5:18 PM, Glaukus said:

Jeesus h. $50 for 30 grams!

 

 

Harvesting vine, the thicker the better.

.

the thicker the better, is used traditionaly, but it's not more potent, it's milder and kinder to the human, thats why "thick" material gets used.

more alkaloids are contained in younger shoots.

again a very thick vine doesn't need to worry about survival, even if it get's attacked by an insect/animal.

but thin stems are more vanuble to attack, so the plant protects them more with alkaloids.

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, withdrawl clinic said:

i think it's mostly in the cambium layer, not the woody core.  we don't know why plants contain alkaloids, but often they are seen as a defence mechanism.

the woody core doesn't need to protect it's self but the outer cambium part is vital for survival.

the thicker the better, is used traditionaly, but it's not more potent, it's milder and kinder to the human, thats why "thick" material gets used.

more alkaloids are contained in younger shoots.

 

 

 

What leads you to think the cambium layer is the highest concentration? I'll run a few small changes experiments to see if it adds up, might take a while though. It's an interesting discussion for sure, but I'm not sure what difference it makes in the end though. If, for a length of vine, the majority of alkaloids are in the cambium, you would still need to cut the same length of vine to achieve the desired result. It would certainly be easier to process the whole cross section that it would be to remove only a part of the cross section.

My experience with thicker vine leads me to believe it is stronger per weight than the same weight of thinner material. And thicker vine would have a higher proportion of core than thinner vine by weight, so my assumption is that the core holds the bulk. Maybe it's like cactus though. The green layer of outer flesh has the highest % but overall, often more total alkaloids are yielded by the white flesh due to its total weight. 

It's been a while since we have done any experiments like this here, back to what SAB used to be about; knowledge!

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