Jump to content
The Corroboree
woopwoop

Whats wrong with this Loph?

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

What do you guys, think this is? Do you think its spider mites? What would you do to correct the issue? Some possible things could be Dusting with Tomatoe dust (sulfur, copper, spinosad) for 7 days, then removing most of the dust, then applying in another week for another 7 days. then unpotting it and washing it well with either water only or I have read people soaking the whole plant in iso alcohol!!, then giving the roots a peroxide soak, then another rinse and dry for a week and repotting.

 

also interested in something I read about using regular tobacco powder in water making an effective pesticide (not sure it that is dangerous to the plant, as is the case for neem oil which I have only read mixed results about in regards to cacti... but i'm pretty sure that is due to the oil which cacti don't seem to respond well to. tobacco and water might work well tho)

 

Any alternative opinions?

IMG_1559.JPG

IMG_1557.JPG

IMG_1558.JPG

Edited by woopwoop
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks fungal to me. Has the blight been creeping up from the base? 

Try Yates anti rot or equivalent. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I am thinking of a superior pesticide and fungicide recipe, check this out:

 

wettable Sulphur, Wettable copper, and Eco-Fungicide (potassium bicarb). Mix that with the water that is made from tobacco and garlic*. spray or paint onto the plant.:devil:

 

yates tomato dust (Sulphur, copper, spinosad) is good, but I hate the application because it is such a fine dust it floats everywhere (not good for your lungs)

 

*still looking for recipes on how to make the tobacco pesticide water 

 

also, during the repotting process, wherin a 15min 1% hydrogen peroxide root soak is performed, a dipping of q-tip on the hydrogen and dabbing on the really gnarly bits would probably be advantageous (before being completely rinsed afterwards and set to dry for a week before potting). don't apply the peroxide to the green bits due to interfering with the cacti's natural waxy layer

Edited by woopwoop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Not sure but it looks like rust mold to me and not like the kind of fungus that rots your plant away from the bottom up..

 

For something like rust: In some cases it can stabilize and remain an aesthetic problem (and contam problem), but yours looks more problematic than that i think. It starts superficially and creeps in through the stomata.. but i think it is able to go deeper..

 

In your case it may very well be too late for superficial remedies. Bicarb makes unfavorable surface conditions for example.. Not even sure if that would help prevent the spreading of spores while the fungus mainly stays deeper.

Honestly i have quite mild rust issues here and there and a "non eco" fungicide hardly helps. As far as i have been able to find out you shouldn't hope for a cure, just to slow down or halt the process.

I would use a much more mineral inorganic soil mix and see if you can do anything to change the (air) conditions so that it stops developing. For me putting plants outside (i can grow almost exclusively indoors and without sun unfortunately) seems to help a lot and i get fresh new growth that looks better. A lot of molds don't like fresh breezes but thrive in closed quarters where the spores just keep hanging around.

Some insects may also play a role in spreading such diseases by the way and in those cases it may be necessary to solve the insect problem before you can even start to work at the fungus problem.

I would like to hear more about actual experiences of people with things like copper and sulfur against such a case of mold on cacti! :)

Edited by Solipsis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The best game plan so for I believe:

 

Cover in a small mountain of tomato dust (copper, sulfur, spinasad). Leave to work for 7 days. Then remove most of it and, and apply a liquid mixture of the following recipe:

 

2in1 Mancozeb and Sulfur product

wettable copper product

potassium bicarbonate product

mixed with water made from tobacco and garlic

 

This will be applied with a paint brush or possibly sprayed (don't want to get the soil to wet since it will be repotted shortly). Leave this for another 7 days.

 

Then unpot it, wash in water to get the chems off. Then submerged and washed in Isopropyl alcohol (not sure on %). Then rinsed. Then the roots get a 15min 1% hydrogen peroxide soak, while also dabbing the peroxide onto the hardened bits of the top. Then rinsed once more and left to dry for 1 week with a fan blowing on it constantly. Repotted in mineral mix with 1% Neem Meal mixed in. Hopefully that will fix the fucker up. Then periodic sprays with tobacco and garlic water and possibly using the potassium bicarbonate.

 

There is also a spray product from yates that contains myclobutanil which they say is a systemic and works from the inside out after it is absorbed by the plant. 

 

if that wouldn't work, then nothing will

 

Wonder what the effects would be of making some slits into the affected area and putting tomato dust into the wounds?? (if it would cause it to act on the deeper fungus)

 

How contagious do you think this is? Probably not a good move to use a paint brush to clean the dirt off of it, and then use the same paint brush on other lophs huh lol

 

Edited by woopwoop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunno if it'll work in your climate but I throw a commercial Trichoderma solution over anything that looks wounded, mouldy or is prone to it.

 

Early morning, so it has a chance to dry, absorb, multiply before the cool evening sets in.

 

I've never been able to grow Lophs outside, nor Mammillaria until I started doing this about 18 months ago. They both always got orange rot 100%.

 

Last growing season was my first ever successful button cactus year. Even late and cool in the season, when a bird pecked a massive hole in the big Loph it healed fully within 48 hrs, callusing started after 12hr after application. No further damage, no pathogens moved in

 

IME Trich regular applications also stop larvae if you always respray within the breeding cycle

 

But that's just me, here. Don't use it as a magic bullet for everything without testing on a few of your babies over a season or two.

 

Was gunna make up a commercial mix and sell it, but my marketing skills suck. Get yours from a hydro shop. Have also posted on other threads here on Trichoderma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that's interesting! So you apply it to the actual plant? Do you use a mostly mineral mix for your lophs (especially if your in a tropical location)? if so, do you still use Trichoderma in the soil of it as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I really wouldn't start cutting into the plant to try and reach the fungus beyond the superficial parts, that seems like you may make matters even much worse.

 

A product meant to be applied on leaves which are relatively thin probably should not be expected to act deeper, you would need something systemic or a formulation designed to pass through/into that amount of tissue.

 

About the first photo: a big chunk of the cactus was cut off? Or did the infection just do that? Is the red we are seeing on top that tomato dust product or a symptom of the fungus that caused other widespread damage?

 

Before saying more I think it is important to get a good history so please tell us a story or paint us a picture of what happened / what apparent symptoms are unrelated and much older?

(I would forget about the pesticides for now unless you currently have pests in there that play a role in these problems, it confuses the point otherwise, and the plant as well. Or is the red dusty appearance actually mites if you look very closely? Hard to tell from photo. So: did you see the mites or jump to the conclusion? I am personally about to start working with other beneficial microorganisms: bacteria and mold which can kill pests)

Edited by Solipsis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looks alright, i had a button eaten by snails and

they left a 1/6 size deformed version of what was there

before:wink:over winterlandtime

looks like its seen some adversity ......

but

if you leave it alone it will grow back

fatter than whence

it tswas before thou inquiring for hence

but is solid like i'ts been affected by rot

that makes squire paranoid

keep going.......

that button and

t's pharnou, is staunch ,

prolly

use sulphur powder if it has an orange

that keeps getting worse like a bad cold

still

 

hopefully someone with experience will chime in

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Solipsis said:

I really wouldn't start cutting into the plant to try and reach the fungus beyond the superficial parts, that seems like you may make matters even much worse.

 

A product meant to be applied on leaves which are relatively thin probably should not be expected to act deeper, you would need something systemic or a formulation designed to pass through/into that amount of tissue.

 

About the first photo: a big chunk of the cactus was cut off? Or did the infection just do that? Is the red we are seeing on top that tomato dust product or a symptom of the fungus that caused other widespread damage?

 

Before saying more I think it is important to get a good history so please tell us a story or paint us a picture of what happened / what apparent symptoms are unrelated and much older?

(I would forget about the pesticides for now unless you currently have pests in there that play a role in these problems, it confuses the point otherwise, and the plant as well. Or is the red dusty appearance actually mites if you look very closely? Hard to tell from photo. So: did you see the mites or jump to the conclusion? I am personally about to start working with other beneficial microorganisms: bacteria and mold which can kill pests)

 

There is no tomato dust in the pics, that is purely the plant. I don't know how the gash got there, I only saw this plant yesterday for the first time, its not mine. the guy just had this and about 5 other smaller pots with single lophs in them, and a bigger pot with a 20yearold mother. This is the only one that had anything like this on it (as you can see, even the other plant right next to it seems to be fine).

 

 

The good things about most of the products I am suggesting, is they basically work both ways (on fungus and pests). I did notice some small crawlers around the rim of the pot, I don't know if they are spider mites or not (it was hard to see them, and mites come in various shapes and sizes). At first I def thought it was spider mites, but then sorta figured its more of a fungal thing (which the mites wouldn't help).

 

Yes, unfortunately there is little products specifically for cacti saving, so its a matter of trying it out (and seeing if someone else has used). As for the systemic, there is a product called Yates  Fungus Gun which claims to be systemic (it has the myclobutanil). Can only give it a whirl. do you know of any other systemics that could work? plan on putting 1% neem meal in the new potting mix since neem has some anti-pest/fung properties (but also don't want too much since its got lots of Nitrogen) can't hurt it.

 

Edited by woopwoop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, etherealdrifter said:

looks alright, i had a button eaten by snails and

they left a 1/6 size deformed version of what was there

before:wink:over winterlandtime

looks like its seen some adversity ......

but

if you leave it alone it will grow back

fatter than whence

it tswas before thou inquiring for hence

but is solid like i'ts been affected by rot

that makes squire paranoid

keep going.......

that button and

t's pharnou, is staunch ,

prolly

use sulphur powder if it has an orange

that keeps getting worse like a bad cold

still

 

hopefully someone with experience will chime in

 

 

 

 

I'll admit I sorta got lost on the last half of your reply:lol:. But yes, all the pots were simply on the ground, so they would def have been easy targets for snails (or anything realy), so that could have played a part. I advised him on some better care for such plants, but will also be more hands on with helping him out (but still trying to think of the best way to help this particular plant, and don't want it to spread to the others)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Whatever it is, I would consider it serious.. and in my experience it is not good to just start randomly applying solutions especially ones that are mainly meant to maintain and control problems.

 

If spider mites, you would want to launch an attack to stop their infestation in their tracks. A proper treatment like the spinosad I guess, or pyrethrins, but also the day before or after that you may want to [start using] insecticidal soap because it actually helps to stop the mites in other stages of their lifecycle too. And you need to break that cycle and screw up a complete generation or it can be a little pointless. People do use add-ons for that soap (don't use dishwashing detergent for it by the way! but old school soft green soap), and nicotine could be such an add-on yeah.


I consider treatments like cinnamon and some ive heard you mention as more of a prevention or maintenance protection and not a treatment. And i think it can get hard to kill certain fungal problems.

Identify the presence of spider mites if they are there (a magnifier can help), but i think if this was recent damage you should probably be able to find them without too much problem as they should have grown in numbers i would think... It can be a bit of searching but spider mites are visible with the naked eye. If present they really should be on top too, preferably near the apex usually i think..

 

or otherwise if not mites or other insect damage, try to confirm that it's fungus and i would agree that it seems quite a bit more likely. Spider mite damage should be a lot more like a greyish haze over them and not the red and brown colors.

Focus such a treatment on a decent systemic product and don't start putting peroxide on the roots or combine 5 different things meant for prevention, hoping that it will work because you stacked them..
Skip the garlic, tobacco and sulfur imo.. but potassium bicarb can at least help halt growth on the surface.

Inspect the plants again and see whether it progressed and if there is active rot... like i don't trust that pup on the far right in the third photo..

Realize that various treatments can be big stress on the plant and that repotting is stressful too... but do make sure that you don't water again with this soil mix, for the foreseeable future at least. Cause too much water / too organic soil can have contributed - as well as too high humidity / not enough airflow.
 

Tricky cause while you want to get em out of that soil asap which has *way* too much organic soil in it, but you probably wanna wait right now until you have identified the cause of the problem and can act accordingly, give treatments first without stressing it unnecessarily, and only take them out of the soil if you really have to or if it can be part of the cleaning treatment.

With fungus, i wouldn't expect it to get better, at best to halt it spreading.. but not sure honestly.

 

Get systemic antifungals, some have been suggested above.

Edited by Solipsis
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

thanks for the good advice. do you think the healthy one next to it will be alright (obviously going to separate them). What about the other potted lophs that have been kept side by side (they look pretty healthy. here is a pic of one of the others that has been kept with it (yes the soil is really bad, i'll be helping him with the soil. I think the best soil is gritmix from dr greenthumbs)

 

also, I believe the larger pot isn't doing any favours since it would take ages to dry out

 

 

IMG_1555.JPG

IMG_1556.JPG

Edited by woopwoop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, woopwoop said:

So you apply it to the actual plant?

 

Yup, as a foliar spray

 

18 hours ago, woopwoop said:

Do you use a mostly mineral mix for your lophs (especially if your in a tropical location)?

 

It's a coarse sharp sand blend, I think it was commercial. Planted it in that pot about 15 years ago

 

18 hours ago, woopwoop said:

if so, do you still use Trichoderma in the soil of it as well?

 

Yup. Mostly via what falls on the soil from the foliar spray. Ideally I apply it once every 1-2 weeks when I foliar spray everything here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Solipsis said:

Whatever it is, I would consider it serious.. and in my experience it is not good to just start randomly applying solutions especially ones that are mainly meant to maintain and control problems.

Focus such a treatment on a decent systemic product and don't start putting peroxide on the roots or combine 5 different things meant for prevention, hoping that it will work because you stacked them..

 

This. Exactly.

 

Do not throw more than one treatment on any sick plant at a time unless you have experience with that combination and that species.

 

Give the treatment time to work ( or fail ) before throwing anything else at it

 

You might lose your plant anyhow, but you're giving it a better chance in the meantime. And if it fails, you can tell people that specific tek didn't work- for your species and pathogen, in your area. Which will help others

 

My suggestion of Trichoderma has only worked for me thus far, for pathogens in my area, on cactus I've previously had problems with. I've not yet enquired if the protocol has been tried on cactus in other regions by other people. I'd expect anyone throwing Trichoderma as a new treatment for a sick cactus in another bio-region would regard it as an experimental treatment.

 

My extensive experience in people telling me what works for them has shown that about 80% of people throw a bunch of random stuff at their sick plants, in an entirely undocumented and cavalier way contrary to any instructions, then pick one thing from the bunch and blame it for the success or failure. It makes for unreliable data.

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Solipsis said:

 

Tricky cause while you want to get em out of that soil asap which has *way* too much organic soil in it

 

 

Yup. Lophs here in NNSW can stand being pulled out of the ground over winter to dry out then repotting, but not sure if I'd recommend that til yours has at least started to heal- or even fully healed

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

good advice guys. So right now they have tomato dust on them (This has been done with other lophs, that had mites, and didn't damage them), which will be left for a few days. after that, they will be sprayed with the Yates fungus gun (claims to be systemic, contains the Myclobutanil), after 7 days of that, then it will be repotted in mineral mix that has 1% neem meal. Then a paint brush application of the sodium bicarbonate. After a few weeks (once it has had a good water in spring) then will apply the Trichoderma spray every month or so. every 3 months or so will apply Myclobutanil. And hope for the best.

 

 

Edited by woopwoop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Trichoderma more aggressive than these pest molds? I know it can be protective generally but not sure if it is able to kick out the rust or whatever that is.

 

And an antifungul would also be expected to kill Trichoderma ^ so I doubt you can really combine that. IDK how long the antifungal works. With soil its probably good to have healthy soil with bacteria to 'man the fort' when you use antifungals, because it creates a sort of power vacuum.

 

I am personally not gonna use Trich because I also grow fungi lol, so not gonna encourage any Trich xD

 

Pretty much agreed with Darklight, it's a good point.. not surprising that people want the best for their plant and want to try things out of desperation but it can get even worse if they start drawing false or biased conclusions from what happens next.

And yeah if you have healthy ones nearby and have the possibility of separating healthy ones (there may very well be an invisible infection / contam that started but has not really gotten far yet), that could help because you can limit the sporeload of the sick ones, produced by the mold.

And you can apply preventative measures mentioned in the thread on the healthy ones so that sickness does not progress or really start on them.

 

It always starts with observation and figuring out what is going on before you do anything. And in my personal experience: i have more than once noticed something odd but came up with an explanation in my mind for how it could be normal or okay. For example i have gotten a little scale once because I did not realize that the weird bumps could be insects. I have more than once thought that variation in plant growth just happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

good idea. I think after the tomato dust has been removed, then regular applications of the systemic fungicide and potassium bicarbonate is all that can be done.

 

Hopefuly it doesn't spread to the others. They have all been in close quarters for I assume a few years.

 

These 2 here were from the same area, but had been moved away from the rest of the family 3-4 months ago. They have been repotted recently (they also got 2 rounds of 5-7 days of tomato dust prior to repotting, due to some critters, and they had their roots soaked in hydrogen peroxide). So far they have not showed any signs of anything wrong. (they aren't that green, its just the lighting. but that also haven't had much sunlight due to the weather).

 

So hopefully at the very least, the other ones in the sepearte pots do not succumb 

 

IMG_1560.JPG

IMG_1561.JPG

Edited by woopwoop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×