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ZooL

Has anyone here ever experimented with mutagens and spores?

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I remember once reading a paper that showed some pretty extreme variation in fruit when treating spored with mutagenic compound, has anyone here ever experimented with this?

After a bit of searching i can't seem to find any regulations in aus around use of mutagens which seems pretty surprising, I have found a few places that supply Ethyl methanesulfonate I was thinking about doing a bit of messing round not with spores but with cacti and succulent seeds, I know its really a pot luck of anything beneficial or interesting  showing up and then even more luck required for it to be a hereditary mutation but i was just wondering if anyone had ever tried this with mushrooms.


and a secondary question, if i remember correctly there is a class of mutagens that not only caused single point mutations but also created duplication of chromosomes, i think it resulted in greater variation possibility and is often used to create sterile or seedless plants but cant remember name of it, anyone know that?


I'm no chemist or biologist and just have an interest in this for some reason but could be a little off with some details.

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I remember reading a few Shroomery posts many years ago about some community experiments hybridizing mushrooms with rattlesnake venom. I believe RogerRabbit was at the forefront of the experiments. Might be worth doing a search on there for some threads

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I’ve pondered using EMS on cactus seeds for a few years now. However, the consequences of exposure are to severe and I prefer to play on the safe side. 

 

Oryzalin is another good candidate, but it suffers from the same problems as EMS, after treatment is performed how are you going to clean off all the remaining mutagen? Can you be 100% sure it was all removed and how will it now be disposed of? And is that worth risking mutating your own genetics?

 

Perhaps consider other methods of mutation that do not require the use of chemical treatments for example, radiation sources such as UV rays or X-rays will introduce mutations to DNA. The advantage with these treatments is after they have been performed, there is no need to try and clean away nasty chemicals, so the seeds are much safer to plant and grow.


If you do try mutagenesis using a radiation source, and none of your seeds germinate, this means your rate of mutation was to high and you need to reduce the duration or intensity of exposure. Youll want to find a balance where enough mutation is introduced to create interesting phenotypes but not enough as to be lethal to the seed. 

 

Performing mutagenesis upon cactus seeds is rather quick, but it takes alot more time, energy and space to grow them all into adults. There were a few threads/expiriments on the Nook but i think the threads died well before the resulting seedlings reached maturity. 

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9 hours ago, squidgygoanna said:

I remember reading a few Shroomery posts many years ago about some community experiments hybridizing mushrooms with rattlesnake venom. I believe RogerRabbit was at the forefront of the experiments. Might be worth doing a search on there for some threads

 

 

Thanks ill go have a look around there and see if i can find any of the threads.

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Change said:

I’ve pondered using EMS on cactus seeds for a few years now. However, the consequences of exposure are to severe and I prefer to play on the safe side. 

 

Oryzalin is another good candidate, but it suffers from the same problems as EMS, after treatment is performed how are you going to clean off all the remaining mutagen? Can you be 100% sure it was all removed and how will it now be disposed of? And is that worth risking mutating your own genetics?

 

Perhaps consider other methods of mutation that do not require the use of chemical treatments for example, radiation sources such as UV rays or X-rays will introduce mutations to DNA. The advantage with these treatments is after they have been performed, there is no need to try and clean away nasty chemicals, so the seeds are much safer to plant and grow.


If you do try mutagenesis using a radiation source, and none of your seeds germinate, this means your rate of mutation was to high and you need to reduce the duration or intensity of exposure. Youll want to find a balance where enough mutation is introduced to create interesting phenotypes but not enough as to be lethal to the seed. 

 

Performing mutagenesis upon cactus seeds is rather quick, but it takes alot more time, energy and space to grow them all into adults. There were a few threads/expiriments on the Nook but i think the threads died well before the resulting seedlings reached maturity. 

 

Yea i was thinking about radiation methods but from what i can tell its is a bit more complex in equipment needed and harder to to keep rates content and measured, i will admit the risk with ems waste and exposure do make me a little uneasy and i haven't fully thought through or planned out how to ensure complete wash and disposal. I wouldn't start messing around with something like it until i had a lot more confidence and understanding of the methods and processes to limit risks as much as possible and not end up with unexpected nasties remaining.

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Using UV-C is not that complicated, I have built an enclosure around my FFU flowhood and will be using it to also irradiate with UV which is built in.

 

A friend has already done this and apparently created irratiated spores some of which were made into monokaryons. I saw some really funky star-shaped growth, lol. But it will take a while before we start seeing results I think, and he is very busy.

 

Rattlesnake venom has nothing to do with mutagenesis but is cytolytic and breaks down cell walls which is supposed to help with fusion of some old cultures that were not cooperating, I think. But there are easier ways to achieve things like that.

 

Hybridizing initially is a little work but not necessarily that crazy (if they are compatible enough and not some crazy attempt at an intergeneric hybrid or something), it seems to me like the work afterwards to stabilize can be a lot more.

 

How Workman created APE by the way seemed pretty easy but he said he had insane luck with it.

 

Anyway, back to mutations :D

 

I think mutants like some of the KSSS cultivars are nuts haha, I would love to see something like that with gourmet mushrooms as well.

 

THe greater number of chromosomes I think you meant polyploidity induced with colchicin? Yeah also interesting but IIRC it would take years of breeding to get reliable desired effects out of that.

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