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Irpini

Brugmansia microdosing

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hi all,

anyone have any tips on microdosing brugmansia's or how to use them safely?

thanks

 

Edited by Irpini

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Microdosing is best with non-toxic entheogens such as mushrooms and cacti. Microdosing with more toxic plants like nutmeg and the tropane bearing species may result in a build up of toxins in your body. This could result in the opposite of microdosings goals of increasing focus, creativity and mindfuelness, where instead the users mind comes somewhat unstuck or psychotic. In theory the only safe way to use these plants is in a micro-dose, however even a micro dose may be dangerous if used regularly. The tribes that use tropane bearing species traditionally claim regular use may result in insanity. I would tread extremely carefully, if at all.

 

One prospect I find very interesting is the the potential of microdosing all the very mild entheogenic plants. Plants like Blue Lotus,  (Acours calamus), (Targetes lucidia), various galangal, gingers and many others. these plants are legal, very mild, fairly safe and non-toxic. In fact the effect of many of these species is very similar to a threshold psychedelic experience, which is exactly what microdosing is aiming for. Using these species at a slightly less than regular dose every 4th day may offer many similar benefits as microdosing, especially if combined with things like mindfuelness, meditation etc.

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I have used tropane containing ointment on myself for control of severe pain.

A TINY (Index finger-tip dab) amount is needed, directly on the painful area.

Beware that approx. 20% people have a delayed response to tropanes, DON"T up-dose if delayed response upon application.

Another 20% are very sensitive to tropanes, never use heroic dose applications!

Topical application results in local anesthesia and CNS pain modulating effects.

Do not apply for more than 3 days in a row, have a break of a few days between.

Tolerance to topical microdosing is generalized thruout the body, except the heart muscle,

do not use if you have any cardiovascular conditions.

Stop if you start losing your memory, have blurred vision, dry mouth.

That said, datura ointment is an excellent topical pain killer, used extensively around the world for such.

https://banefolk.com/

 

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Going back a few years I ate 1-2 seeds daily for a few days and after a few days started to feel like I was getting the typical tropane effects, dry mouth, bad memory, general weirdness.

I stopped at that point as I didn't want to be talking to shadow people at work!

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Even smoking to much brug or Datura leaf or for to many days in a row lead to effects similar to the brew but way less toxic feelings and recovery is quicker I believe, smoking some (stopping when mouth and throat start getting that dry feeling) especially with red wine is awesome, tho I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it, for me it had great synergy but after many days some real mind screw type effects that some may not like can sometimes manifest.

for example yarning with ya step dad, turning away then when you turn back he is gone, was never there, ya just sitting there alone, and it can get way way weirder then that, especially with a strong brew, shit gets real crazy 

 

It supposedly has a build up effect and from experience I believe it to be true, so if experimenting good breaks between are recommended. 

 

Tho I have been lucky and had some amazing experiences (apart from the toxic effects, chronic dry throat and days of not understanding the meaning of words etc from brews)

I am sure you have read/heard the many horror stories out there so no need to go into that, Its a thing where strong warnings against it is very much warranted and prob very wise to adhere to. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I am not sure an ointment is a micro dose.  That said, I will not speak about micro dosing either. 

 

There's a cool way to try the beast that tropanes is, that is smoking them. Even better smoking them in combo with alcohol (wine - beer) . Yep it makes a great synergy. So I am with Bardo in this one, only I have done it very rarely, if at all,  for sure not for days in a raw. 

 

I think henbane  *Hyoscyamus sp* is both the best tasting when smoking and the most pleasant of them all due to slightly different alkaloid profile. You can really have a safe-net when smoking , but you should not over do it. Effects are relativly rapid when smoking, so stop when you start having dry mouth and dry eyes. These are the signals that tell you "OK, you messed a bit with the devils plants, now stop it" .  Depending on various factors,  you should be able to smoke 2-3 small hanbane joints before you need to stop. 

 

Same drill goes with traditional pilsener beer made with henbane seed. There's a max number of beer you can drink. I really want to do this someday.

 

Problem with all these discussions on ethno boards is that most people are of the psychedelic mentality. Devils plants are not like this though.. They have indeed a 'dont give a shit' mentality even if you are not into delirious stages. That's why it seems to synergise so well with alcohol. Alcohol also has a "dont give a shit' thing when you have drunk a couple. So its not a surprise that lots of psychedelic mentality people say "stay away" . Well, many of them have been in delirious states themselves from overdosing so many that say 'stay away' did not have the cautiousness to go slow and see the beast in mild form. Anyways some people just cant get this thing. So remember you might be one of them. 

 

In this vein its also not surprising, that in my experience in ethno boards, the few people that had indeed a connection with tropanes, had experimented with them, knew the score, had a knowledge, where not the psychedelic theist type. No. They were dudes that unlike psychedelic theists / afficionados,  they liked alcohol, they had extended experience with amanita muscaria and often other dissociatives.   

 

So, different things for different folks, try to learn what the beast is about before you go to meet it.  Be safe. 

 

PS: !!!! you'd better not drive when having even just a bit of tropane intoxication!!!!!!!!

Edited by sagiXsagi
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On ‎20‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 1:47 AM, sagiXsagi said:

Same drill goes with traditional pilsener beer made with henbane seed

I would like to give that a try 

 

When I first tried it I was somewhat young,  I read up on it a heap and was beyond curious and felt a need to see despite the warnings, was so drawn to it, like it was calling me, had read somewhere that only a true shamanic heart can handle it or something to that effect, so not only did I want to make contact but also wanted to test my self, so I got some leaves and a couple flowers from a big brug tree, had light pinkish flowers, brewed it up with massive excitement and drank with a healthy amount of nervousness, that dry throat thing is like nothing I have ever experienced. Started off very euphoric and excited,  lucky for the amount I had that first brew nothing to extreme happened

 

mostly was just yarning with imaginary people in the lounge room, mainly normal convos, mundane and sometimes somewhat boring talk, all seems so normal until they vanish. 

 

one pretty cool part from that particular brew was I was sitting in bed with a book with no words in it, I had a pen and became like a conduit from some outside source/spirit, I was writing in the book as I was receiving the most profound, beautiful, moving, divine and mind blowing info, at times giggling or laughing with excitement for be blessed with such powerful secrets and truths that seemed as tho messages from god

 

I was thinking wow, wow these words are going to change everything, all people must hear this, I truly thought the power and truth of these words was going to have profound effect for all of mankind, something that was going to be like a positive Pandora's box of the human psyche and experience. 

Then after a few paragraphs or pages I would struggle to keep up and start to regain to much of my own thought and the signal from the deep trance conduit/medium type state would fade and I would come out of it and disconnect, when this happened I would tap the pen on the page anxiously trying to remember the last part I received and get back into flow with it, the more I tried the further I got from it, so im sitting there tapping the pen in desperation then boom, I would be holding one of my hands in the air and the other hand tapping an imaginary pen against and imaginary book, was nothing there lol, I would spin out a bit, regain myself a bit while thinking wow what the heck, then boom im back in full motion, excitingly jotting all the info/messages im receiving like nothing just happended, back in trance mode, then the same thing would happen again and suddenly im back to tapping the non existent pen in the air. 

 

this happened so many times, must of went on for ages, im guessing many hours, I so badly wanted to know what I written but I just couldn't recall anything at all but was left with a feeling of it.

 

By day 3 I had recovered a lot but was still defo under a spell,  by that time when someone spoke I could hear the words fine, I knew the words but I was really struggling to attach meaning to them, but when I would reply I would know the right words to say and there meaning but couldn't tell if what I was saying was an appropriate or relevant response. by this point I was thinking oh shit, what have I done, I thought I was going to be insane for ever, I was starting to accept this is what I will be like forever and ill just have to do the best I can to get by lol

 

Was a very interesting experience that was quite different from what I felt or thought it would be, a real mind bender, even with the toxic tones to it, after I regained my proper senses I felt thankful for it, and felt it was a positive experience, I felt a sense of being spiritually strengthened, like internally, spiritually and mentally fortified to a degree from it,

 

I could/can not remember any of the messages I received, not even a single word of it, at least no recall in a logical way or a way that could be remembered like a normal memory, I feel it offered and gifted me a special little bit of something that cant be spoken, an internal knowing that cant be fully known by the brain, like it resides somewhere out side the brain, somewhere without language but still speaks to me.. 

 

these early brug experiences helped shift my view on chemicals and plants and opened my eyes further on what they can offer and there potential that's for sure, only done brews a very limited amount of times, I felt I got/seen what I needed from it and felt right to no longer pursue that method. 

 

Other psyches offer a sense of knowing as well and are much safer, the classics feel more natural and feels right in the body and mind, instead of delirium they offer a kind of lucidity, clear lucidity and often at times feels like they are giving little secrets or forgotten basic truths away, see all things in all states inanimate  and animate and the connection betwwen, , sometimes feels like getting a kind of blue print of things.

sometimes to see things direct without the minds conditioned filter, to see without definition or attached meanings. Sometimes it feels as tho in a full surrender to its spirit or effects you see and feel all inside and out in high resolution HD and all makes perfect sense, like its a familiar place somehow know before ever doing it,  and sometimes when there I get a feeling of being closer home

when this perfect sense of knowing is strongly present it can feel like a beautiful sadness and amazing joys similtanesly, at the outer limits, this sense of truth, an unspeakable knowing can make me laugh and/or cry, sometimes at the same time, being told/shown a cosmic joke of sorts that at least for a time when in deepness seems to be fully obtained and obtainable and makes perfect and complete sense and it is perfect, the whole thing every single thing is just amazingly perfect and great.

 

outside theses beautiful and deep spaces, after good doses that feels like a full journey, like going through an epic voyage of insights and discovery of truly epic proportions  , when coming back to base the what seemed like fully understood truth obtained has a way of subsiding from what seemed logical whilst recieving,  no longer fully obtainable in the mind alone,  many years ago i would desperately try explain this freeing  "truth" "knowing" to some others, hoping with the right combo of words backed by feelings and vibes it could be somehow transferred and known/realised by another. 

 

tho there is so much knowledge and wisdom that can be shared after these journeys I very quickly realized early on that its essence, its substance, the heart and soul of it,  and much I wanted to share simple couldn't be shared, that it was personal, it was for me, it was my unspeakable knowing,  I have gained it and is truly mine alone, 

Something reached/found and granted to many of those who seek or venture, find there unspeakable knowing, 

 

and when you are in the zone and feeling ones spirituality flow with/in the knowing unabstracted by trying to say it, or grab or hold it, with someone else who is there at the level, its fun to talk, trip and have breakthroughs of thought/energy and whatnot but theres something really cool when ya really there and certain type of silent confirming nod is exchanged between aficionados : )      

 

Sorry for the long post, im in a mood of sorts :blink::devil::wacko::P, i hope its not to boring, came out clear and coherent enough and not just mad jibberish lol, or atleast has some entertainment or value : )

 

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Thats a pretty interesting post.

 

If you havent done already, I suggest you should grow Hyoscyamus niger, the flower of this plant is the most "tropane" shit in my aesthetic, along with some "female" mandragora root with big tits I had the luck to encounter. H.niger flower is like the devils eye - but not in any christian sense - its beautiful , magnificent and I think this flower started my fascination to grow as many tropane plants I could to flower. 

 

 So I did, 3 species of hyoscyamus , 3 types of datura, 3 types of brugmansia, 4 strains of mandragora , didnt get to grow a Belladona to flower yet. These are all cool to try and grow - I dare to say my fave is Hyoscyamus - maybe because I feel nostalgic to not having grown a plant for some time. There's H.albus growing here locally though.. 

 

Anyways enough of that . 

 

Tropane 3 day deliriums are rarely described as pleasant.  People end up sitting in their shit and piss, or in jail or in psych ward. Especially without a sitter. THERE SHOULD BE STATED  that such trips can definately worsen or trigger a pre-existing mental situation, notably in the range of whats classified as bipolar d, psychosis, schizophrenia. I also hypothesise  that the dose for a 3 day delirum is not far from a fatal dose - YES, TROPANES ARE POISON IF YOU TAKE TOO MUCH 

 

That having been said, some time in the future I really want to attemp a mild delirius trip in a safe house near nature and of course a sitter.

 

Since we went this far, its appropriate to say that smoking datura or  hyoscyamus is a different experience.  datura and brugmansia have more scopolamine while hyoscyamus and mandragora have more hyoscyamine. This different in the percentage of the 2 major alkaloids seems to play a major effect as hyoscyamine is reported to be more sedative along with deliriogen .  scopolamine is reported to be more stimulant compared to hyoscyamine.. Also atropine is present which is supposed to contribute a lot to the side-effects, so an explorer of such a devilish path would propably research on all this stuff before one consumes it.  Its less important in smoking , still noticeable, but it should be more important in bigger doses, that well .. nobody should attempt.. nobody except one that knows what the fuck he is doing. 

 

and after all these I need to say 

 

I URGE YOU - DONT EAT TROPANES ! IF YOU WANT A TASTE , SMOKE SOME DATURA OR BRUGMANSIA LEAVES , OR EVEN BETTER HYOSCYAMUS LEACES...  ONLY SOME, DONT OVER DO IT! 

 

 

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I would like to experiment with smoking other tropes someday, they all have a real presence to em and im very attracted to em for there looks as well as presence.

I highly doubt I will ever drink any again, its a lot of time out and a fair amount of physical discomfort. its like a big risky gamble with no assuredness of outcome at all. 

Seems silly to venture that way especially willy nilly, I trusted in the plants callings and believe once done it is meant to be.

 

Thankfully I never did shit or piss myself and never damaged the house or anything, there is a fair amount of missing time from the experiences and have no idea what I might have been doing but I never left the house so that's good, defo don't want to be out and about. 

 

When I was in high school as a fairly rebellious and self destructive type, years prier to trope experiments,  I had some pipes, then had taken a fair amount of dxm, the highest amount I have ever done, i am amazed to have made it through the day, it was so very similar to the tropes, when it started to kick I had the whole not understanding meaning of word thing first and general confusion, felt a weird dreamy feeling, I just told people I wasn't feeling well and tried to keep in the background, toward the end of the day during music class the teacher didn't show so the class had a free period out in the yard, we sat on a nice grassy slope and I noticed a fella I never saw before, I thought he must have been new, he began to talk to me and we were getting along really good, talking about guitars and music, I thought this guy is cool. 

 

Crazy thing is I never saw him after that day either, seems he didn't exist, still to this day I wonder how I didn't raise any alarms. I remember the day, walking home then nothing, I woke up the next morning and mum said when she got home she saw me laying on the floor and was not responding to her, she said she felt panicked by it, a little later apparently I got straight up and mumbled gibberish, some hardly audible and said I was fine and went to bed, I have no memory of that afternoon or night at all, zero, defo don't do deliriants in public 

 

 

For someone feeling the need to feel or get a sense of tropes and must know. maybe sea sickness tablets could be a safer alternative, being measured amounts and all,

they don't for me have the same extreme effects atleast the amount I have tried, and could be like a gentler and kinder intro, when I went deep see fishing I ate a few to many with some rums, I got mild confusion, more like slightly cloudy, was mostly functioning pretty normal or normal enough for the occasion, on the way back I was having heaps of these little micro type naps and a feeling of being somewhere else and had a small feeling of shock each time I snapped back and saw the water. very mild in comparison to brew.

 

 

 smoked brug and Datura and initially I can see the stimulant type thing, an excitation of sorts , would defo be interesting to compare em to other tropes. 

 

Yeh once again, just to help push the cautions for those who haven't but feel they must try despite the many warnings,  start small see how you react, always stop smoking as soon as mouth starts to dry, the dryness its self can make ya feel insane, have a strong sober person equipped to be a sitter especially for brews in particular, but really the safest thing is to not do it at all, as sagi said it could trigger mental issues. you don't want to be forever more thinking your a robot JAC172835 sent to earth to collect data or some shit, or even worse die either directly or indirectly from this. the thought of someone vacating for ever while still alive is scary and sad to think about, think hard why you want to do it and if the very real potential risks are worth the chance/risk.

 

  

 

 

 

 

Edited by bardo
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4-6 datura metel seeds in a poppy tea brew aftere a few beers is pretty great. Just sayin.

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I chew a few seeds from time to time, really good for tooth-aches, just saying:lol:

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I'm a retired chiropractor, but still treat the occasional patient.

Recently have been using a isoproponol Datura leaf extract on stubborn joints,

with full consent of my patient/friends, really helps to loosen joints before an adjustment.

Really, in all my years of practice, I've never found anything as good. I think I've mentioned before,

that topical tropanes are the most widely used musculoskeletal pain medicines on this planet,

that's saying something! Just DON'T overdo it!!

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From British Herbal Pharmacopoeia 1983-

"DATURA

THERAPEUTICS

ACTION: Spasmolytic. Antasthmatic.

INDICATIONS: Asthma. Pertussis. Sialorrhoea in parkinsonism.

SPECIFIC INDICATIONS: Asthma

COMBINATION USED: May be combined with Lobelia and Capsicum, or with Ephedra in asthma.

PREPARATIONS AND DOSAGE: (thrice daily)

Dried leaf. Dose 0.06-0.2 g or by infusion. Liquid Extract B.P. (1968). Dose 0.06-0.2 ml.

Tincture B.P. (1973). Dose 0.5-2ml."

NOW THAT IS GREAT WESTERN SHAMANISM!

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Thats interesting.. I have a herniated disc, but I am managing quite well these last 3 years through being careful and swimming throughout the year. 

 

I would like to have a recipee with say olive oil for future reference at hand. Last time I was in pain I was taking Lyrica. I wonder how much is the ointment / prepared madicine is preserved (shelf life) 

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Take whole plant, chop it up. Add to receptacle. Just cover with olive oil. Let steep for a good while at room temp or less with added heat in a waterbath. Drain.

Depending on amount of oil, plant matter and time you now have a potent olive oil extract.

Do yourself a favour and add some beeswax to make it into a slightly easier to use salve, the straight olive oil is goid for massaging but can drip everywhere and is harder to dose.

Work up to find your dosage and don't use it everyday.

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Best to use dried leaf, as not drying the plant material will cause the oil to go rancid.

Just follow a traditional herbal medicine oil extraction process. Lots of books out there.

If you are using seeds, lightly roast them first, grind and then cover with oil.

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Some very useful information from "PDR for Herbal Medicines 4th Ed."

""JIMPSON WEED

Datura stramonium

 

DESCRIPTION Medical parts: ... are the dried leaves or the dried leaves with the tips of the flowering branches. Occasionally the fruit , the ripe seeds, and the fresh aerial parts of the plant are used. Parts of the plant are regarded as poisonous.

 

CHARACTERISTICS: the foliage has an unpleasant smell; the flowers are fragrant and poisonous.

 

PRODUCTION: Jimpson Weed leaf consists of the dried leaf, or the dried leaves and flowering tops of Datura Stramonium.

Jimpson Weed seed consists of the ripe seed of Datura stramonium.

 

OTHER NAMES: Datura, Devil's Apple, Devil's Trumpet, Jamestown Weed, Mad-Apple, Nightshade, Peru-Apple, Stinkweed, Stinkwort, Stramonium, Thorn-Apple.

 

ACTIONS AND PHARMACOLOGY

Compounds: Jimpson Weed Leaf

Tropane alkaloids (0.1-0.65%) : chief alkoloids(-) hyoscyamine, under drying conditions changing over to some extent into atropine, and scopolamane (ratio 4:1), furthermore including, among others, apoatropine, belladonine, tiglolylmetaloidin

ETC...

Componds: Jimpson Wedd Seeds

Tropane alkaloids (0.4-0.6%): chief alkaloids (-) hyoscyamine, under drying conditions changing over to some extent into atropine, and scopolamane (ratio 4:1)

Indole alkaloids (B carboline type)including among others, flurodaturin (very fluorescent ).

 

 

 

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