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waterboy 2.0

Sceletium use for anxiety in dogs.

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Not often I've read any animal angled material here or elsewhere. 

 

I will slowly add to this thread, link some references and my approach, and how things are panning out. 

 

The only "issues"  I have come across is the claim in one study of ataxia in male wistar rats with extract, with  antidepressant activity. The second is using unfermented raw material with wistar rats which displayed a reduced physiological stress response but produced inflammatory responses. 

 

Cats and dogs have been examined at dosage ranges of 100mg/kg and 10mg/kg twice daily of milled material respectively with no adverse effects.

 

Wistar rats in another oral toxicity study at 14 and 90 day durations have been observed to have no adverse effects with extract at levels up to 5000mg/kg daily(14 dys) and 600mg/kg daily (90 dys). 

 

Why am I looking at this? :wink:

Many dogs can suffer from anxiety, separation anxiety is one common facet with some breeds being more prone. 

 

After the death of our older dog, the "pup" has really amplified her separation anxiety... Lol... Particularly with me... Yeah I be numba one. 

 

Examples include making sure I'm breathing when I've gone down with fatigue on the couch(are you dead?) and getting up in my face. If asleep I'll get a light paw tap on my face to get a response. 

 

Manically barking at me on returns home.... Even short periods. ("berating" bark). The others in the family get this to a lesser degree. 

 

Highly territorial, strong guarding instinct .. Lol... I'll pity the fool that may poke around unannounced come nightfall. Very keen hunting instinct. 

 

Constant "sooking"  when I'm outside the house yard doing something and have left her inside it. Previously she would break out and find me in the scrub, but now has established that that is not OK. 

 

Occasionally digging, not often buy when it does occur its a decent excavation. 

 

Gets a heap of exercise, lots of room, heaps of things to chew on ect... Loads of stimulation. Less socialized than desirable though, obedient but strong willed. 

 

Would happily be a lap dog... Lol

 

She's a crossbreed and currently entire, German short-haired pointer x border collie.... 

(some are laughing... Yeah WB that might do it:lol:) . 

 

So I have a dog capable of running down and taking down a deer, with the intelligence to do it in the most efficient manner. 

 

But if I'm not about.. Lol... She stresses out. When the family is home and I'm out, she is pining and constantly  alert for my return .  It's quite manic at times. 

 

Interesting enough the smell of fermented skelly is extremely attractive to her. I'll presume it's the "salty" smell it has. 

 

If I have any in my pocket /backpack she is at it. So a few days back I pulled out a tin to chew on a bit and the dog is up on it.... Hmm.... So I dabbed my thumb in an held it out, and the stuff was gone... Lol... Just a dusting on my thumbprint. 

 

Few hours later the already energetic dog has established a new personal best for laps around the house... Lol.. Later in the evening much more settled, rather than the constant vigilance to guarding. 

 

Following day... Less needy, less noise,  anxiety appears to  be reduced. 

 

Rinse and repeat for  three more days, and there appears to be some difference to the severity of the separation anxiety. 

 

So.... Ima gunna drug her... Lol:wink:

I'll start establishing a weighted dose and  do 30 days and assess again. 

 

Fermented material, ground, sprinkled onto the morning feed. Initially I was thinking morning dosed as the initial increase in activity is quite noticeable.. Lol....

 

I am reading that 10mg/Kg milled dry kanna twice daily in food  is well tolerated by canines with no identified adverse effects* (very comprehensive testing and monitoring). 

 

This is where I will be starting this trial.... I'm hoping it can be used for a period to break some behaviors, but currently i am not adverse to ongoing maintenance use if well tolerated. 

 

 

* Hirabayashi, M., Ichikawa, K., Fukushima, R., Uchino, T., Shimada, H., 2002. Clinical
application of South African tea on dementia dog. Japanese Journal of Small
Animal Practice 21, 109–113(in Japanese) 

 

 

 

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That's a very cool idea DubyaB

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Maybe... :wink:

 

There probably is short term potential for dogs that have anxiety to thunderstorms, firecrackers, firearms ect. 

 

Separation anxiety is a bit more full on and really piles the stress on. 

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Interesting but have you tried simple tryptophan? Seems to be a commoner approach with a better established safety profile

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Posted (edited)

Be careful. Its surprising what things are fine for human consumption but toxic to dogs.

 

Grapes for example are extremely toxic and can kill a dog very quickly. This includes dried form like in buns and cake.

 

Also poisoning symptoms may not be evident until its to late.

 

10mg/kg suggests a low tolerance to the material.

Edited by ENtiTY
Clarification
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Posted (edited)

Yes I have Alc, should have mentioned it. Nope, zero effect. The force is strong. 

 

Benadryl as well was trialed but that just munts her down. She is supposed to be a busy dog:wink:

 

Then the vets further suggestions are more severe chemical muntings that seriously mess/"mask" with her personality. 

 

Dietary changes have been trialed as well. "raw" diet exacerbates her behavior which surprised me

 

She's a lovely, loyal dog, crazy brave.... Just stresses herself stupid....The  breed combo is defo a factor. Probably the most intelligent dog I've had about. 

 

Will also note, when we are all completely off property and she can hear the vehicle has gone she will settle down and relax on watching trail cam video. 

 

Me dropping a couple times(and unresponsive for a bit)  when a true puppy really probably entrenched a bit of this. She really loves the shit outta me... Lol... 

 

It may end up being that this is the nature of things, and that's fine it's not bothering neighbors ect... Just 

 

 

 

Edited by waterboy 2.0
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Posted (edited)

:wink:yep well aware of the common killers, the alliums get many dogs as well to the surprise of folk. There are defo metabolism differences. 

 

They've pushed dogs harder than that, I'm for softly, softly. I'm actually really suspect of the outlying rat studies. 

Edited by waterboy 2.0

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This is really cool, have to keep us updated! Anxious doggos can be difficult to deal with. 

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You know I've looked into that RC:wink:

First thoughts went there...

 

Honestly the current CBD product pet market in the US is suspect AF IMO looking into it, the potential is there but.

 

Lack of  study for a rapidly growing pet Industry is really intriguing. FA regulation is the problem.  It's selling well and making folk some good monies though.... 

 

There's a lot of assumptions, wild extrapolation and baseless claims, not one study I can find that even suggests treatment of anxiety or associated conditions  in canines, and that's even chasing back through references of the very limited works. Basically there is no data...

 

Apparently well  tolerated (from pain/osteoporosis studies)  , but some diarrhea is commonly reported side effect reported, that's probably a dietary change thing or the formulation of the product as a guess.... 

 

Other than anecdotes and marketing praises the jury is still out with me on efficacy. 

 

I'm not adverse to it saying all that.

 

I've missed my opportunity for suitable profile material to trial:wink: but not in a position to expend coin, although if I was I'd work up from a human product than the marked up pet products for sure. 

 

Certainly not going to feed anything with an adjacent thc profile:lol: 

 

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Posted (edited)

An aside, today the initial "amped" up response after feeding is barely noticeable. (as expected). 

 

The daily paddock wander and "work " surprised me. Usually end up with a rabbit or a hare or two,probably every 2-3 days.... Dragged 5 back today... Lol...  Coincidence me thinks, but quite keen

 

Been less sooky when not In the same fence line... Although will stare at me if in view sending out the guilts.

Edited by waterboy 2.0
Spelling and shit

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I remember when I bought some weed stocks, there was an ASX company called CannPal or something that were in the business of manufacturing medicinal cannabis preparations for animals. Pretty awesome. I wonder if psychedelics could also work in pets. I mean we know they work pretty well for quite a few mental illnesses in humans. Doggy trips.

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This is going really well, better than I anticipated :wink: I have reduced the dose to miniscule maintenence. 

 

I'll put some words together when I can keep my thoughts coherent. 

 

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How is this going? I have a friend that has a psycho dog and would hopefully benefit from a little scelly. 

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Has reduced separation anxiety greatly in this case... Depending on the nature of the "psycho" it could help or hinder though. 

 

The fretting and "sooking" has really reduced considerably, and she has reduced in vigilance and the verging on extreme guarding instinct. 

 

Will relax now when I'm about doing something else but can't physically touch me (over a fence etc) , which was the greatest period of anxiety.  Still gets up in my face... Lol... But I can live with that as part of her charm. 

 

The only side effect of note was the amped up effect,  which was initially noticeable and have dialed it back. There was no sedation effect (and wanted to avoid it) .

 

Typically for me I get a bit amped, and then chillaxed to sedated. 

 

I still would advise caution though, as dogs just can't Scooby doo tells us what's going on :wink: it's worth a trial for anxiety, dunno about bitey dogs and such though. 

 

 

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