Jump to content
The Corroboree

Recommended Posts

Hey all!

I'm very torn on the ethics of a bonsai - On one hand its torture to the plant but on the other it brings the individual closer to nature...

I have a few Radiata pine seedlings growing at the moment and was thinking about getting into the art of Bonsai (But i want a clean conscience :wink: )

I would love to hear some opinions

Thanks again! 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not as bad as my dilemma. I like to drop bonsais from high buildings onto hard cement. The older they are the sweeter they sound when they smash.

 

This cruel fetish has cost me thousands!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Halcyon Daze said:

Not as bad as my dilemma. I like to drop bonsais from high buildings onto hard cement. The older they are the sweeter they sound when they smash.

 

This cruel fetish has cost me thousands!

Oh dude... Are you okay?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i assume you're talking about binding/wiring? does it seem like directing a plant to grow in a certain direction causes harm? do plants even have pain receptors? neurons? 

also many plants respond quite well to pruning, coming back stronger than previously, finally many bonsai can live to 100+ years which is the life range you'd get if they were trees growing in the wild, so it cant be that bad or you would expect plants to get sick and die if it was truly bad for them. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DiscoStu said:

i assume you're talking about binding/wiring? does it seem like directing a plant to grow in a certain direction causes harm? do plants even have pain receptors? neurons? 

 also many plants respond quite well to pruning, coming back stronger than previously, finally many bonsai can live to 100+ years which is the life range you'd get if they were trees growing in the wild, so it cant be that bad or you would expect plants to get sick and die if it was truly bad for them. 

I supposed (done right) A plant would rather live to reproduce (stunted) than not live at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if cutting a plant is really 'torture' for it, and there are many instances of natural bonsais too. ie they grow all over cliff faces. 

 

We have these sandstone cliffs up the back of our block and there are heaps of native Rock Fig 'bonsais'. (Ficus rubiginosa)

 

Ficus rubiginosa is absolutely made for the job IMO, and producing your own wouldn't be upsetting for them too much.

Edited by Halcyon Daze
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Halcyon Daze said:

I don't know if cutting a plant is really 'torture' for it, and there are many instances of natural bonsais too. ie they grow all over cliff faces. 

 

We have these sandstone cliffs up the back of our block and there are heaps of native Rock Fig 'bonsais'. (Ficus rubiginosa)

 

Ficus rubiginosa is absolutely made for the job IMO, and producing your own wouldn't be upsetting for them too much.

How about ethnobotanical bonsai? Acacia or Iboga? It would be pretty interesting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess there are different styles of bonsai too. The large ones are really nice and you could use almost anything for a large bonsai. The tiny miniature bonsais are better with small leaved species. Certainly ethno bonsais would be absolutely wicked, but to get the ultimate bonsai look you will always need a couple decades minimum. There's just no getting around that part, but totally worth it in the end :)

 

I did have some beautiful bonsais when I was a teen, but every time I'd go on holls somewhere I'd come back to dead, dry plants. Such a shame. I also house-sitted for a couple of bonsai lovers once. They had literally thousands! My one and only requirement was to water the bonsais a couple times a week. It was fun, but also a bit of a chore because there were sooooo many.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i've seen cannabis "bonsai" and also acacia bonsai, 

some sort of vine bonsai grown over a rock then remove the rock would be pretty cool

or just grow the vine over a piece of drift wood 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/12/2018 at 9:34 AM, TheMooseZeus said:

I'm very torn on the ethics of a bonsai

Mate your really getting into some serious ethics questions lately. Love your work:wink:. Questions like these have been asked by such great thinkers as Goethe, George Washington Carver, Luther Burbank and my favourite, Masanuobu Fukuoka. 

This is a hard one. Ethics is one of those strange phenomena that seems to change depending on what most people think. It was not long ago, at least in some parts of the world,  it was perfectly acceptable to bind girls feet to make them small, or in south america to bind children heads to make them elongated. Neither of these effect life span, yet if you did them to your children today you would be locked up.

Probably the biggest problem with a question like this is: the science isn't there yet. We don't know enough about plant consciousness to make an informed decision. Using animal analogies seems a bit pointless with such a dramatically different organism. It is perhaps akin to eurocentrism in anthropology. Yes plant don't have pain receptors or neurons, they also don't have a heart or arteries, yet there is no question nutrients are delivered to the cells. Research by people like Monica Gagliano have shown that plants use a calcium based signalling network that allows them to not only remember, but to learn by experience (see link below).

Other research (sorry can't remember who, Uni was way too long ago) shows that some plants respond to predation (being cut) by secreting pharamones which warn it's neighbours, allowing them, in turn, to secrete repellent chemicals. Is this an indication of altruism, some kind of community spirit, or is it just another selfish evolutionary trait like some birds which communally raise the offspring of others of the same species?

We just don't know enough. The fact your asking probably means you will go about bonsai in an ethical way. After all bonsia is part torture and part nurture.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep38427.epdf?author_access_token=ndXv7HCRrrXgnqZkGRINU9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PFvNbZvaVrCKW4Rb8ZW14eVyb7xNIHahQoZ-WZXB-uth8RSOQA0pfaOyF6to9zHCjhchoo9tGdx9p0lbntPMnN

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Crop said:

The fact your asking probably means you will go about bonsai in an ethical way. After all bonsia is part torture and part nurture.

That is really quite something to think about.

A more western way of think is that a tree is a benign object of this world, thus excusing the torture though bonsai is not a western practice.

Plants appear to have no consciousness on a surface level but this doesn't excuse the fact that an ineffable number of plants can, will and have had a profound impact on the consciousness of society and individuals.

You could of course argue that growing a tree out of its natural environment is torture in the same way as taking a child from their family, trees require mycorrhizal relationships, some of these fungi aren't available in other locations. (And we've all seen the size of bonsai pots. There's not a lot of room for anything in there)

Alternatively maybe we should be careful of projecting human emotions onto plants? :P

Thanks for the kind words too, that really means a lot :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×