Going it alone

[Humboldt]

Hi am after some wisdom, guidance and encouragement, 1st Ill explain a little of my situation.  

Im a middle aged bloke with wife and kids looking to deepen my understanding of myself through mother earth, plants, ceremony and self love. I do discuss my thoughts with significant others but lack any mentoring in these areas apart from on wonderful forums like this.

Unfortunately when i was a kid i had some shit things done to me which has negatively affected my relationships in later life. Ive spent much of my life alone because its easier but now Im worried im passing some karma of this onto my kids. They too ( ecspecially the boy) have some difficulty in the social sphere.  I have determined to confront these demons in order to move through to a better space for me and those connected to me.

Although lately Ive rediscovered much of the self assurity and passion i had in my 20s for the spiritual path these days i dont really have the physical and social support of like minded friends.  I am planning to head to some special places alone to begin this healing but its been quite a while since ive experienced such altered states, and want to be safe and responsible about it.  I am a pretty grounded, calm, peaceful person with a geniune want to come at things from a place of gentleness, kindness and love.

Any advice is gratefully appreciated.

H

 

[Slocombe]

Sounds obvious but don't trip near bodies of water and steep cliffs etc... and be somewhere familiar and calming.

 

If you're doing this with past trauma front-and-centre in your mind I'd recommend a trusted sitter...and if you can't find one maybe not at all

[Humboldt]

Wise words Slocombe and thankyou.  The enjoyment of gardening, trying to bond with plants is cool too.  Maybe i should consider the idea that better opportunities/ situations await.

Front and centre im not so sure about what will eventuate but i know there is some work to be done so sooner or later.  I guess that when i distille things down Im after a sense of connection rather than separation.  Would be healing.

9 hours ago, Slocombe said:

Sounds obvious but don't trip near bodies of water and steep cliffs etc... and be somewhere familiar and calming.

 

If you're doing this with past trauma front-and-centre in your mind I'd recommend a trusted sitter...and if you can't find one maybe not at all

for the reply.  

Edited June 14, 2018 by Humbolt
Reflection

[Inyan]

One thing we generally figure out as we get older is it is okay not to rush things. What this might mean for someone in your circumstances is to wait until you do have an in person mentor/sitter or loved one at the very least as a last resort

 

Second best to that and perhaps in conjunction you may find that simply growing the plant you would like to experience may help build a psychological and spiritual connection that may positively benefit your experience. You may even want to consider taking sub threshold amounts of the particular pejuta you are working with on a few occasions and gradually work your way up to a full threshold experience over a period of time. There certainly is no need to jump straight into a full blown mind melting experience with any pejuta 

 

Slow, safe, and steady....

[Humboldt]

6 hours ago, Inyan said:

One thing we generally figure out as we get older is it is okay not to rush things. What this might mean for someone in your circumstances is to wait until you do have an in person mentor/sitter or loved one at the very least as a last resort

 

Second best to that and perhaps in conjunction you may find that simply growing the plant you would like to experience may help build a psychological and spiritual connection that may positively benefit your experience. You may even want to consider taking sub threshold amounts of the particular pejuta you are working with on a few occasions and gradually work your way up to a full threshold experience over a period of time. There certainly is no need to jump straight into a full blown mind melting experience with any pejuta 

 

Slow, safe, and steady....

Hi Inyan,yes the slow road is pretty much is the path im taking atm. Gardening and communing, learning and befriending. Whats nice is that I have also recently found some friends who are keen to provide mutual spiritual support in such matters. Thanks for your reply and sound advice.

Peace H

[Inyan]

Not a problem H,

 

Listening more to what you are saying, it sounds like you might benefit from sitters who are able to watch from afar to give you your space, but who can remain close enough to ensure you are safe. If that is indeed what you want, I would make sure you have the ground rules laid out for how much interaction and interference you would like from your sitters prior to any journey. 

 

Something as simple as your sitters playing music a good distance away from you can substantially alter the quality and nature of your journey. Especially so if you have positive or negative emotions attached to that music. 

 

In this modern age, it is not uncommon for a yuwipi to utilize binoculars to check up on those on a vision quest for example. A supporter may even be asked to go up and check more closely on a particular person if they look like they are in distress. It is far better to interfere too much in what is supposed to be a solo and personal journey or quest than it is to have that person die which could indeed happen on something like a vision quest. What is meant to be a symbolic death and rebirth should stay that way.

 

A supporter on a typical Lakota vision quest will often sing ceremonial songs loud enough to be heard by the one they are supporting. The aim being to be heard and not seen, but to be able to provide the needed strength and emotional support to those they are supporting.

 

At the end of such a quest, the supporters are gifted something from the quester. This is always nice to do for someone who has given of their time so selflessly for you.

 

At any rate, food for thought....

[Strontium Dawg]

This may be terrible advice but I say dive in. 

It's not easy, but it's not meant to be. A truly alone experience is more valuable for self exploration, there's no escape from confronting yourself, however badly you'll want it at times.

You need to be reasonably confident of your dosages though. Undershooting your desired level isn't such a problem. Finding yourself waaay out of your psychic depth is likely to be counterproductive if self work is what you want to do. I find the lower levels are much more conducive.

Expect weirdness, time dilation is often extreme for me when there's nobody to talk to.

Make sure someone knows where you've gone and when you should be back.

A fire for company at night is the best friend you'll have on this voyage.

[Crop]

Of cause all the safety stuff is good advise, especially if it's been awhile. In particular spending some time with the plant, building up your dosage. Mate I think the main thing is, you have to be able to let go, and let it take you. What is going to help you do that? If I'm dealing with serious stuff, I like to be alone and near water; because that's what relaxes me. Then again it's amazingly therapeutic to hang with some like minded people, take way to much, and just have fun with it (a Tassy summer camp sounds goood).

[bardo]

On 07/07/2018 at 5:49 PM, Glaukus said:

This may be terrible advice but I say dive in. 

It's not easy, but it's not meant to be. A truly alone experience is more valuable for self exploration

I refrained from saying anything because of concern but i totally agree, for me solo is the best for discovery/exploration and near always go solo, i prefer to have an ample dose, that is a dose that is ample for the individual to "break through", if you don't see everything come to life and transform, if you don't feel ya receiving what feels like secret knowledge, seeing/feeling a kind of non-communicable blueprint of existence, a sense of being made privy to normally hidden knowledge and the funny joke of life, a feeling of complete lucidity and clarity in ones self and the surroundings, than i feel personally it is not ample in dosage, go further to non form and you are truly free for a time.

 

Complete surrender is needed, complete trust and surrender, trust in your self and the spirits/chemicals or whatever you like to call it and surrender to the spirits/chemicals.

In the higher levels without the surrender and trust you may expect varying degrees of fear, panic, crying etc. i don't know how to communicate this properly but basically those who are overly ego driven, who believe the lies of the ego, who believe they are the sum of there experiences/memories etc. it can be a harrowing experience at these levels, if you hold on to and refuse to let go, or if you fight it to hold onto ego and what you may think is true, your ego etc. than figuratively speaking your ego finger nails will scrape and snap off along the walls of ones own delusion while being dragged into a god forsaken place of desolation. (i have been there a couple of times) This place i believe is where a great and yet harsh learning is done, perhaps a necessary step into greater learnings, at first, you may expect some sorrow when this happens, you may mourn, as if you have died and born or made a new.

 

Because we are all going to die, i find these levels the best for preparation of the inevitable. A great liberation and sense of peace can be found and a sense of knowing, a knowing of something that when tried to be spoken will only infuriate the one trying to speak it, this knowing cannot be spoken.

I am pretty certain there will be some rare folks here who have bravely ventured this way who also have this knowing.

 

[bardo]

When i say ample i mean for great learning, smaller dosages are of course great, valuable and very often fun, and of course there is still plenty of learning available there as well : )

[Strontium Dawg]

1 hour ago, bardo said:

When i say ample i mean for great learning, smaller dosages are of course great, valuable and very often fun, and of course there is still plenty of learning available there as well : )

Breakthrough/peak/ecstatic experience is necessary, but sometimes it's hard to bring something back that is useful and meaningful for everyday life. That's mostly my aim these days which is why I tend to shoot for my desired level: taking a step outside the self, but still be able to reflect on my life. If I can't remember my lessons, I find it hard to integrate them. Maybe they're sinking in on a higher dimension...

 

[bardo]

Also i think the more experience with them the less one needs to reach higher or desired levels, at least it seems that way for me, also i think the more di mi tri one uses the more the other things especially shr ooms  loose there original vibe/style and take on a more chan ga type style journey and visuals, anyone else think/feel this ?

[Northerner]

I hope you find what you are looking for in your path Humbolt. I identify with you a lot, we have much in common.

There is much to be discovered through the use of plant medicines, though there are some caveats. Something I think that is important that many people fail to realise when they are looking for deeper understanding of themselves is their actual awareness. Your body is, the things around you are, everything about you is defined in some way or another... but your actual point of awareness is not defined. Scientists and philosophers have been trying to pin down the part of a living entity that is that entity since we became self aware. This part of you that cannot be defined, that is intangible, that is your awareness, that is your spirit.

What this means is that every moment of every day we are having a spiritual experience. This is the spiritual experience. Every single moment. You don't need medicines nor texts, Gods nor altars. You are having a spiritual experience right now.

Wanting to add knowledge, heal yourself, your psyche and your ego are admirable traits and is what separates the cattle and the people in the human race. But please don't become so entrenched in the search for why and what that you fail to see the greater how. That "how" being how you perceive everything, your awareness itself.

In the same way don't become deluded with the apparent realities that plant medicines can present to you. Like the knowledge aforementioned they are just a tool. Another way to perceive things that will create contrast and may in turn give you revelations. But they are an augmentation of your spiritual experience, your awareness, do not be overcome or deluded. Integrating these experiences back into our awareness is where the value truly lies.

From inside comes the healing, with time and acceptance.

Accept everything, reject nothing. Be true.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Northerner

[Humboldt]

Thanks for the replies and insights. Its sincerely appreciated.  

Im not sure how to respond apart from trying to take it all onboard and sit for a while.   Im concerned that my entire premise for this post is over thinking, being too prescriptive.  Ie looking for an experience, instead of simply enjoying those times of just finding one, whatever the source.  I think im looking for meaning and connection but id be well aware that i have no idea really what awaits or what form healing will take.  

 

8 hours ago, Northerner said:

 

What this means is that every moment of every day we are having a spiritual experience. This is the spiritual experience. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Northerner said:

 

In the same way don't become deluded with the apparent realities that plant medicines can present to you.

Northerner i understand what your saying but it might be interesting if you could you expand on this?

 

On 7/8/2018 at 9:46 PM, Crop said:

 Then again it's amazingly therapeutic to hang with some like minded people, take way to much, and just have fun with it (a Tassy summer camp sounds goood)

Definately Crop roll on summer.

 

On 7/8/2018 at 10:49 AM, Glaukus said:

This may be terrible advice but I say dive in. 

It's not easy, but it's not meant to be. A truly alone experience is more valuable for self exploration, there's no escape from confronting yourself, however badly you'll want it at times.

You need to be reasonably confident of your dosages though. Undershooting your desired level isn't such a problem. Finding yourself waaay out of your psychic depth is likely to be counterproductive if self work is what you want to do. I find the lower levels are much more conducive.

Expect weirdness, time dilation is often extreme for me when there's nobody to talk to.

Make sure someone knows where you've gone and when you should be back.

A fire for company at night is the best friend you'll have on this voyage.

Not terrible advice at all (dive in) my intuition feels that i wouldnt be at this point if i wasnt ready for growth and the confrontation that may accompany it.   I feel i can be more honest in this process when alone but... Dose is one im a bit uncertain about and being able to intergrate it all without someone to talk to is another

On 7/9/2018 at 1:11 PM, bardo said:

 i prefer to have an ample dose, that is a dose that is ample for the individual to "break through", if you don't see everything come to life and transform, if you don't feel ya receiving what feels like secret knowledge, seeing/feeling a kind of non-communicable blueprint of existence, a sense of being made privy to normally hidden knowledge .

I am pretty certain there will be some rare folks here who have bravely ventured this way who also have this knowing.

 

Id definately seek such knowing Bardo but might take me some building up to. Getting more confident in that space.

 

 

 

 

[Northerner]

5 hours ago, Humbolt said:

Northerner i understand what your saying but it might be interesting if you could you expand on this?

What I mean by "don't become deluded with the apparent realities that plant medicines can present to you" is that your perspective should always be switching back to this incarnation being your primary focus/reality.

 

Some of these plants present realities that appear more real than what we see around us. Upon returning to our present perspective it can seem alien and strange, like the plants perspective is reality and all we see around us is an illusion.

 

I can personally attest to how easy it is to become caught up in the illusions, then to come right after a long break wondering "what was I thinking?". But it was so real at the time. So real.

 

 

[bardo]

Good points Northerner, we are having the spiritual experience right now, if you are here (earth) it is happening, you are it, this it it, every moment, every sense, every emotion, every interaction, all and everything is truly awe-inspiring, a simple basic truth that can not be taught (i read once, something along this line - that the truth is like the moon, a teacher or guide can point to the moon but if the student only looks at the finger then he/she will never see the moon, one must look for themselves to see )  simplest and most amazing truth yet for many very hard to grasp, when it is grasped everything is stunning, all including the mundane becomes astonishing, all is formidable and awe-inspiring. Spiritual books and gurus etc. are like the finger pointing to it, they can help one reach a realization but never provide it nor truly explain it for another. 

 

 

 

 

 

[bardo]

I think there is no wrong way to go or a way to go that is wrong while here, do what ya feel ya want/need to do, try relax and not freak out (or freak out it doesn't matter) as Northerner said this is it man, it's happening at this very moment, yeh baby life is the shit.

 

[Strontium Dawg]

5 hours ago, bardo said:

I think there is no wrong way to go or a way to go that is wrong while here, do what ya feel ya want/need to do, try relax and not freak out (or freak out it doesn't matter) as Northerner said this is it man, it's happening at this very moment, yeh baby life is the shit.

 

That's it man, do what works for you. And the only way to find out what works for you is to dive right in!

[Humboldt]

,

Edited July 14, 2018 by Humbolt

[Humboldt]

On 7/12/2018 at 6:54 PM, Glaukus said:

That's it man, do what works for you. And the only way to find out what works for you is to dive right in!

https://goo.gl/images/3o57do