Dried San Pedro and Peyote being sold on ebay in Australia

[smi2le]

Recently I've noticed dried San Pedro for sale from a local Australian source on Ebay Australia.

The same seller was also listing dried Peyote.

I'm not sure if its appropriate to post links to ebay so I will not post a link.

Its possible to find these listings via advanced search in ebay.

 

I think this is really bad and may result in the banning of trichocereus cultivation in parts of Australia.

I sent the seller a message to this effect and suggested that I would "report item" if the sales continued.

It seems to have done the trick for now.

 

If this happens again and the seller can not be reasoned with via an ebay message ... do you think I should report this to ebay or would this do more damage overall in terms of altering the authorities and causing a ban?

 

I collect Trichocereus and Button Cactus ... grow from them from seed and use them as grafting stocks ... I think that sale of these cacti that is targeted toward consumption is not in our interest as cactus lovers.

 

I think any members of this forum who are purchasing dried San Pedro from Australian sellers ought to be ashamed of themselves and I think if you know anyone who is purchasing from these sources you should publicly shame them in this forum and anywhere else that is appropriate !!! If you by any chance know who the seller is then ask them to stop and if they will not then expose them in this forum.

[Strontium Dawg]

Yep. Last thing we need is some current affair type making a big outrage story from this king of thing.

Facebook is already starting to disallow sales of plants with certain words in the listings and PayPal has refused payments to be processed too.

[smi2le]

Thanks for the support Glaukus.

 

Further to your comment.

My concern is not a news piece so much .... but that when an item gets reported on ebay that this becomes a statistic that is used as evidence for starting a ban.

I am really glad that the seller stopped listing so I did not have to seriously consider using the "report item" feature.

 

I'm sure that your aware that the government and the police are all about statistics ... its one of the big problems with this country ... Australia the police state brought to you by the statistical bureaucracy.

This is one of the reasons I feel that spirit guides such as cacti need to be protected from greed ... they help us reverse the brain washing caused by our consumer culture.

[Strontium Dawg]

Never underestimate the power of knee jerk reaction public outrage..

 

And if statistics matter so much to the police, why are statistically safe substances like cannabis illegal while statistically unsafe ones like alcohol remain legal?

 

[greenechidna]

It's listed as incense, your the only one saying it's used for something else, all the Trichocereus adds that list other species as san pedro would be doing just as much harm. 

 

[zelly]

do a screen shot of the ebay auction, save as jpg or pdf.  then in your message to ebay seller, include jpg / pdf  along with a note that his auction has been reported & forwarded to certain law enforcement as possible controlled substance extracts. 

 

live plants and or cuttings are one subject, extracted materials or dried materials are another topic & the law doesnt discriminate based on labeling as 'incense'

 

Acacia trees may be highly legal whereas root bark 'incense' can be highly illegal...

[greenechidna]

By someone advertising bridgesii, macrogonus, peruvianus, as san pedro it is exactly the same thing they are saying it is active, it is actually against the law to grow any cactus for mescaline, I think if the pigs took me to court for selling a cactus as san pedro on ebay or dried peruvian torch as incense, would have more chance of getting done for selling a cutting or plant as san pedro because you have already made the assumption that it's active, the only way the pigs could get you for incense is if you told them you were going to ingest it. 

[smi2le]

Greenechidna,

 

That is a good point you are making about selling trichocereus as San Pedro. I agree with your point that this pretty much the same thing as saying that these cacti are active.

However I think that selling dried cacti is far worse. My understanding is that in the USA dried trichocereus is considered a preparation and is illegal .. our own laws are based on international treaties we have signed along with the USA. So I think the laws in the USA set a precedent for Australia to do the same thing.

 

Also I think its somewhat reasonable to list these cacti as San Pedro for symbolic reasons (although I would not do it myself). I think one reason for popularity of these cacti for people that are not interested in partaking in ethnogens but are still attracted to "San Pedro" is due to its spiritual significance in Central and South American indigenous cultures. Someone might want to own an authentic "spirit plant" due to their personal belief or ideology. 

 

Glaukus points out that cannabis is still illegal and suggests that this is not inline with statistics. I would go even further and say its also quite un-democratic as I feel its very likely at this point the majority of Australian's are in favour of decriminalising and medical use. There are many reasons working against scientific and statistical arguments for legalising cannabis for example the pharmaceutical industry lobby, international treaties, social conservatives who own and control the media monopolies in this country, non-governmental organisations that influence our politicians.

 

Just to clarify my position on statistics ... my point is that statistics can be used to support just about any argument ... for this reason I think we should be mindful of activities that may generate statistics that would be useful to groups attempting to control the cultivation of Trichocereus and Lophophora.

 

Just want to say a quick thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread so far.

This is an important issue IMHO and warrants serious discussion.

[Strontium Dawg]

Torsten has pointed out many times that it is unlikely to make a difference what state of preparation a substance is in for the purpose of prosecution. If the law thinks your intent is consumption, it's much of a muchness. Probably easier to prove a case with dried chips, but who'd want to test the water?

[Horus]

1 hour ago, Glaukus said:

but who'd want to test the water?

The intent is to do deep healing work and integrate with nature, how do you plead ?

Guilty as charged your honor.

As a healer Ive been made to operate as an outlaw for years.

But Judge, for there to be a crime there must be a victim, my actions have only created wellness in the world.

There are only positive testimonies of my actions.

Let Justice be done ! Lock him up and destroy his garden!

Now the world is a better place.

(hypothetical courtroom scenario )

[-RC-]

19 hours ago, Glaukus said:

 

And if statistics matter so much to the police, why are statistically safe substances like cannabis illegal while statistically unsafe ones like alcohol remain legal?

 

 

Bro, didn't I trademark that line?! 

[Strontium Dawg]

1 hour ago, Responsible Choice said:

 

Bro, didn't I trademark that line?! 

Guilty your honour!

[Strontium Dawg]

4 hours ago, Horus said:

The intent is to do deep healing work and integrate with nature, how do you plead ?

Guilty as charged your honor.

As a healer Ive been made to operate as an outlaw for years.

But Judge, for there to be a crime there must be a victim, my actions have only created wellness in the world.

There are only positive testimonies of my actions.

Let Justice be done ! Lock him up and destroy his garden!

Now the world is a better place.

(hypothetical courtroom scenario )

Horus, I don't share your optimism when I envisage this scenario unfortunately. Did Dr Andrew Katelaris get a fair hearing?

[Horus]

Hey Glaukus, yeah Justice is just crackers.

Though I try not to buy into the fear of BB looking over my shoulder.

56 minutes ago, Glaukus said:

Did Dr Andrew Katelaris get a fair hearing?

Poor old Dr Pot is in Cessnock jail till a November hearing.

He should be getting awards, but instead he is getting time.

Being a healer is Criminal behavior. Australia enforces that plant based natural medicines are a crime.

So we can be in fear of getting healing too.

https://www.churchofubuntu.org/dr-andrew-katelaris-update/

[Strontium Dawg]

I try not to live in fear, but I also like to keep a low profile.

[Mapacho]

As far as telling him to can it, I think you did a really good thing.  Such behaviour is seriously misguided and foolish with an intent clearly based on profit.  That is not debatable, no matter what opinions are on what "should" be ok.

 

I would go further to suggest that it is all our responsibility to let any sellers of such plants in a form implicating consumption in any such public space know that they are exposing all aussie collectors and healers to increased potential for backlash.  Trading and selling these plants for their beauty is wisdom that all such plants would approve of, for now.