Jump to content
The Corroboree
Inyan

Responsibility... How much is enough?

Recommended Posts

Ego is a real slippery thing. I wouldn't presume that ego is your motivation to do the work you do, I couldn't possibly have any real insight into that as I know next to nothing about your life, all I know about you is these few posts. you'll have to forgive us for noticing that your attitude in this discussion is oozing with ego.. 

 

i also can't pretend for a moment that my ego isn't a big part of why I'm getting involved in this.. this is just a intrinsic part of the human condition & it's best we are simply honest about it.

 

absolutely my ego is coming into this discussion but I am at least trying to have a fair & reasonable discussion & address the philosophical implications of the topic at hand.  

 

Perhaps my ego is blinding me? But you appear to be avoiding actually dissecting & explaining your position so we can understand it in a reasonable way & refuse to address the elephants in the room.  Again, perhaps my ego is blinding me but it comes accross as though you have superiority complex.. which I personally wouldn't mind if you would actually make a case for your position rather than simply using snarky ad hominem attacks to avoid the discussion as though you feel you are so right your position doesn't need to make sense or stand up to reasonable criticism 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ this reply was written before I saw your last post crop, so I will up date it by saying I appreciate you addressing some of what I was talking about in your last post, I honestly do..

 

i agree with with a lot of what you said.  I think it is true that we need to stand up for what we feel is right & I ultimately if everyone is doing that then some kind of balance may be achieved.  I meant it earlier when I said we most likely agree on most points.

 

i brought up sharia because Islam was on my mind the other day being here in Krabi. I only bring it up to make a point about how to know where a certain line is.. how do you personally determine who to 'tell off' on the street? I mean to highlight this because it actually is one of the big philosophical conundrums in human life.  

 

Where is the line & how do you determine what is good & just as opposed to what is infringing upon someone's freedom of choice, freedom of religion, thought, culture or personal expression?  This is not even close to being as simple as it might seem. 

 

I think sharia is a pertinent topic to use to make this point, as there are certain tenets within it that could be said to be pretty broadly questionable by many people.. which is a way to simply highlight a philosophical point.

 

how does say, a feminist determine when it is good & just to 'tell off' a man for believing that a woman's opinion is worth less than a man? If that man happens to be a Muslim whom believes in sharia is it good & just for her to do so or is she infringing on his religious freedom &/or being intolerant of his specific cultural values?

 

you see what I'm saying? Sharia is not the point, it was just on my mind & it's just a fairly clear vehicle  to bring attention to what I see is the entire philosophical point of this conversation & the reason I ever thought it's worth discussing.

 

this is a difficult question that I don't think we should take so lightly.. it really is deeeeep one! & incredibly important to consider before we go throwing our weight around.. & im not even saying someone is definitely wrong to tell off someone if they see fit.. but if we don't consider this question at a deeper level I think we run a real risk that what we assume is a positive action may not be so at all..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Islam has got nothing to do with this lol

 

Gays and ladyboys aren't generally accepted pretty much anywhere, as in your average western godless society

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh man, i know this is a jaded as fuck old fogie douche bag point to make but sometimes it's so frustrating, the level of conversation this forum has degraded into in recent years.  I must be a masochist..

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you expect with storytale subjects like these

Edited by DualWieldRake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Crop said:

 

22 hours ago, bardo said:

Man you are impossible.

Mate strange reaction, I take it I was not supposed to agree with your links. As for the trolling, you were caught red handed. I would like to hear about that. I am genuinely interested. If you where genuinely trying to make a point, I don’t get what it was.

 Talking to families about this stuff is my job. Sure it’s a small part. Usually I am dealing with extreme at risk children. A lot of the parents of kids in this extreme category, come across the same way you have throughout this thread. As a result, I have probably been harsh on you. Why do you find helping others so strange?  Both Paradox and yourself think ego is motivator. I’ve been in the non-profit sector for decades and I can only think of a few people with anything resembling an ego problem. If you understood the shit you need to wade through on a daily basis you would get why.

21 hours ago, bardo said:

Being dismissive and to disparage others with differing views is the opposite of evolving in understanding of the human and earthly experience we are all currently undergoing, can we agree on that ?

Mate I was only dismissive once you started posting dodgy newspaper articles claiming smoking is not bad for you. Can we agree that was stupid! regardless whether you were trolling or not? You might not take child safety seriously, but I do. Not smoking around children is an important message. One that has gone way past the debate stage. One you were undermining for what reason?

 

Caught red handed lol, Man i don't care if you agree with the links or not, the point is not everyone thinks, feels and believes what you do but for some reason you think its fair to get up people for thinking  or behaving different to you.

How you think i come across in this thread is just your opinion that is formulated through your personal filter and interpretation, you don't know anything about me.

 

Man i don't think it is strange to help people, i haven't once stated it is strange to help people, but how do you determine your intrusion into others business is a form of genuine help, maybe you are making things harder or worse and how or where do you draw the line with intruding into peoples personal lives with opposing thoughts to you ?

You say if i understood like you know what i do and don't know, you don't know what i do or do not know, you act like you are some kind of supreme warrior, how do you know that i don't work with "at risk" parents ?

 

This thread is depreciating into some kind of pissing contest and i yield man cause it seems to be going no where and achieving little to nothing in any way that is reasonable. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2018 at 6:47 AM, DualWieldRake said:

We aren't mice, this is comparing apples to oranges.

Yeh your right, probably not as much different as you think. It a while ago I was into this stuff, but I think human studies showed people needed social recreation and personal space to mitigate some of the worst effects. Never the less, the link between mental health problems and population density, are well established. One good recipe for sanity might be to avoid cities, socialise with friends and spend some of your time alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2018 at 6:47 AM, DualWieldRake said:

You mention other people gave proof , you'd have to quote that

Come on mate waterboy 2.0 makes some good points. What about we mix everybody’s ideas together? Often the best farming land is along riverbanks. The same land coveted by property developers. Look at an average county town. For argument’s sake, let’s say something like 20km2 of urban sprawl, taking up what used to be prime farm land. What if we take your mega city and break it up? Build a single, self-contained skyscraper, complete with schools, shops and residential, everything. Revert the remaining 19 ½ km2 back to farms. This should reduce environmental foot print, transport and infrastructure costs, as well as solve the labour problem. You could then place these everywhere there is good farm land. Replacing city and town alike, with these ‘micro cities’. Leaving the marginal land between as wilderness.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Points like? (i didn't actually read that incoherent wall of text)

 

Y'all can live/farm on any riverbank you like or city big or small, personally i'm good with how it is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, DualWieldRake said:

i didn't actually read that 

 

Seems to be a consistent theme going on. 

 

this forum format is so convenient the way you can just ignore most of what the people you are conversing with are saying & just blurt out your own biases.  Makes for great conversation that's for sure.  

 

Have fun you two

 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not part of this conversation, i'm just pointing out how it makes no sense

Edited by DualWieldRake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but you aren't pointing out anything bro, you're just stuck in some weird lonely box where you're getting off on agreeing with yourself

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ugh..  you know, i'm probably just frustrated in general & i keep being a tool & checking in on the forums for some reason.

 

i thought this thread could have been interesting but i agree with you that it's boring AF.  honestly though, your posts are so damn lazy dude, it's kind of pathetic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should have been more clear then, there are no observable negative effects that can be attributed to climate change (as in a supposedly man made trend)

 

Some people claim otherwise, yet fail to provide any example.

Proving only they are distantly related to parrots

 

(points to you)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DualWieldRake said:

(points to you)

 

Me?

 

im not agreeing or disagreeing with your point, you may well have a worthwhile point but I haven't said anything about climate change in this thread. I've been involved in a completely seperate concurrent discussion about the philosophical implications of hypocrites verbally abusing strangers because they have a different perspective.

 

ie are you saving the world or just being a self riotous cunt? A difficult conundrum 

Edited by paradox
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you replied to me, and no i'm not trying to save the world. From what?

 

And more bored than riotous i think :P

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not trying to save the world either.  I'm basically arguing against misguidedly trying to save the world.  If you read a few posts other than your own you'd save yourself so much time bruh 

 

edit: & I never said you were riteous at all, (bored makes sense though ;) I was explaining in lamens terms the basic topic of conversation I've been involved in this thread (ie if you tell off strangers because they aren't the same as you in the name of saving the world, are you really helping or are you just being a cunt? in my opinion it's actually a complex question. Nothing at all to do with you) I have not once until yesterday referred to a single thing you've said in this thread. We have been having totally different conversations mostly with totally different people. I'm just pointing out that you are stuck in your own tiny echo chamber & don't seem to pay attention to anything but your own thoughts. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but you keep proving my point so well :P

 

obviously you don't really care man, you're just bored, I get it.. but bored people are the most boring thing.. maybe it wouldn't be so boring if you actually cared about having a half interesting conversation & perhaps occasionally reading the threads you're commenting in. You only get out what you put in & all that

Edited by paradox
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/06/2018 at 3:25 PM, DualWieldRake said:

Well you replied to me, and no i'm not trying to save the world. From what?

 

And more bored than riotous i think :P

tenor.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/23/2018 at 5:46 AM, paradox said:

I'm not trying to save the world either.  I'm basically arguing against misguidedly trying to save the world.  If you read a few posts other than your own you'd save yourself so much time bruh 

 

edit: & I never said you were riteous at all, (bored makes sense though ;) I was explaining in lamens terms the basic topic of conversation I've been involved in this thread (ie if you tell off strangers because they aren't the same as you in the name of saving the world, are you really helping or are you just being a cunt? in my opinion it's actually a complex question. Nothing at all to do with you) I have not once until yesterday referred to a single thing you've said in this thread. We have been having totally different conversations mostly with totally different people. I'm just pointing out that you are stuck in your own tiny echo chamber & don't seem to pay attention to anything but your own thoughts. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but you keep proving my point so well :P

 

obviously you don't really care man, you're just bored, I get it.. but bored people are the most boring thing.. maybe it wouldn't be so boring if you actually cared about having a half interesting conversation & perhaps occasionally reading the threads you're commenting in. You only get out what you put in & all that

 

You can personally attack me all day but it's kinda meaningless coming from another hipster forum dumbass like the one you pertain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a bit confused what you just said..

 

did you mean I pertain to this dumbass hipster forum? If so then you pertain to it just as much as I do & it wasn't always a dumbass hipster forum.. that started pretty recently along with the generally mediocre level of discussion similar to the kind I am dissing you for.

 

or are you saying that I am a hipster forum dumbass? If so then what is the relevance of the word 'pertain' in that sentence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

My response, if you see people are not taking responsibilities for their actions and those actions are hurting the environment and others when does it become your responsibility to speak up on behalf of the environment? When do we speak up on behalf of others? When do we band together to affect a greater change for the good? 

 

Now, when I listen to a lecture I realize that person must really feel that they have an important message to share. That message may or may not be right, but when the majority of scientists are in agreement on a subject such as mans detrimental influence on our shared environment I tend to take more notice to that type of argument than I might take to an argument such as which person's religious set of rules is right.

 

For me, the message is as simple as understanding ones own personal level of understanding of subject that is indeed very complex in that there are many different scientists studying the effects of mans influence on our environment.

 

If you choose to believe that scientists are lying to you and there is a conspiracy to get you to want to clean up after yourself then I can see that influencing your attitude.

 

If you choose to believe that even a simple act such as taking responsibility for your trash and not tossing it out of your window as your driving is too much to ask then that is your choice based on your own perceptions of what is right or wrong and your own ability to affect the environment around you.

 

I would only ask, that we entertain the idea that we try to become more conscious of  how we as individuals affect the environment in positive or negative ways and try our best to create as small a negative effect as possible based on our own limited understanding of a very complex subject. For me, that might simply mean not tossing a bag out my car window. For someone else with a greater understanding of how we affect our environment that might mean that they feel compelled to provide lectures on the subject to others about how we can make changes. Inciting policy changes might be another's goal. 

 

I am only suggesting that if you believe we can as individuals affect our environment in a positive or negative way... is it not a good thing to take responsibility for that and try to impact our environment in as positive a manner as we can?

 

I'm not saying we can be perfect or we should strive to be perfect. I'm saying we may choose to strive to be better versions of ourselves, but we have to choose for ourselves how far to push. We have the ability to choose to decide to reflect on these things or not. For me, I choose to believe we are all capable of a small change. Even if all that change amounts to is thinking about how we can make a more positive change, I believe action can eventually follow thought. 

 

You don't have to be anxious to love the environment or care for the environment you are a part of. You don't have to be anxious to want to be better in your own personal actions.

 

I enjoy working out. I am trying to improve my own internal environment by doing so. I don't spend countless hours each day doing so. I am not anxious about it. I do realize that even 2 minutes spent exercising each day if done consistently will have a markedly beneficial effect on  my own internal environment. I'm not asking myself to be a marathon runner. I'm only asking a very little from myself for myself. 

 

If we don't believe that we can do anything for the environment and we are powerless to make any changes in our own behavior then there will indeed be little change. We have to believe there is a possibility for improvement and that we can benefit from that improvement before any action will be taken. But until someone realizes and finds it important then I don't see any real change happening either. 

 

I take responsibility for my body by doing a single set of pull-ups for instance. Now, I do that every other day and soon I will find that my pull-ups have gone from 1-10. Now, have I made an improvement in my own internal environment? Was the 20 seconds I spent doing pull-ups every other day worth it? Was it worth an incredible 10 seconds out of my day to do something like that?

 

Taking responsibility for that 10 seconds of averaged time each day may have made me feel better about myself, but was it worth it? Was it worth taking responsibility for my body for 10 seconds to achieve 10 pull-ups? I think we should ask the same when it comes to our interaction with the external environment. You don't have to believe you can be a marathon runner or it is necessary to be a marathon runner. Nor do you have to believe in the science behind global warming. 

 

You just have to believe you can have a positive impact on your internal and external environment with a small fraction of your own personal time invested into it and then strive to keep consistent with whatever small change you have decided to take responsibility for. You simply have to be consistent with that small action that you have decided to take and I believe you will have effected a positive change.

 

But in the end, how much responsibility you choose to take and how much action you take will have an affect and whether that affect is one where you have unexpectedly found yourself to be a marathon runner, power lifter, or simply someone who feels better about being able to walk and carry a load of groceries without straining or losing their breath is completely up to you. Small changes over time when done consistently can greatly affect our internal and external world. That is my belief.

 

That is why I choose to take a little responsibility for those things.

 

Is it too much to ask for us all to agree that it is a good thing to take a little responsibility for ourselves and our environment?

If we all spent 10-20 seconds each day thinking about how we could have a positive influence on our outside environment would that be too much responsibility to ask for or not enough?

 

Would we still find ourselves locked in debate about even that small amount of time devoted to our own betterment? Or would there still be people who would debate that is entirely unnecessary and a complete waste of time?

Edited by Inyan
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 24/06/2018 at 5:52 AM, Inyan said:

Would we still find ourselves locked in debate about even that small amount of time devoted to our own betterment? Or would there still be people who would debate that is entirely unnecessary and a complete waste of time?

There is people who would say it is all pointless, eg. nihilists and pessimist

One day the sun will die and all life on earth will die also, so yeh it's a noble cause but ultimately it prob won't really matter either way ya go about it, do what ya feel, if ya feel like being an environmentalist that is noble and respectable if done with tact, or you can be someone who wants destruction, annihilation, chaos etc. either way i don't and won't judge cause i am not only a co-creator of each moment but also a witness and i much enjoy the totality of the experience and think it would be rather dole if we are to all agree upon something, i couldn't imagine much great learning if there is no trials to undergo. I like the contrast of black to white, what could we differentiate if it is to be only one ?

Maybe, someone else throwing out the rubbish from the window of a car, maybe by being witness to that could be viewed as amelioration to you on a personal level.

On 24/06/2018 at 5:52 AM, Inyan said:

if you see people are not taking responsibilities for their actions and those actions are hurting the environment and others when does it become your responsibility to speak up on behalf of the environment? When do we speak up on behalf of others? When do we band together to affect a greater change for the good? 

That's a tough question to answer and very subjective , where does one draw the line and  how does one determine an action as harming the environment ? how do we way up pros and cons etc.  how would we know that our actions intended as positive will actual result in a positive outcome. How much do we really know about anything to assume what is positive or not ?

Sure simple things like not throwing plastic/rubbish out on the ground is pretty much common sense but the big picture is not so simple and is quite subjective.

Even the word good is subjective, what is good for you may be bad for me so which is it ? Or what may be good for us may not be good for something else etc.

I do think it is noble to want to create or bring about change for good but man it ain't so simple, like it could be good for the forests and water ways etc. if we are to cull the human population by 80% but maybe not so good for those being culled.

It could be good to work out more and get healthy but that means you eat more produce and live longer which adds strain to the agricultural industry and the environment etc, but by being sickly you will effect the health care system and contribute to hospital congestion, either way it is both and neither, any act is both good and bad, how we view it and through what filter or lens will effect how we determine, feel and think about any given subject. personally i don't think in terms of good and bad, just what is and by my will how i react or interact with the stimuli i am subjected to.

I will never be right and i will never be wrong, i will be both at all times in any and everything i do or don't do.

Either way we go and what ever may happen there ain't no one getting out of here alive brother.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×