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TheMooseZeus

Conflicting opinions on ayahuasca

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I have been researching a lot into Ayahuasca; set/ setting and intention and how it is taken either in ritual or just alone at home or in nature.

From what i have read into it seems very much like the rituals involving a shaman are very agitated and uncomfortable (for lack of a better word)

The individual experience seems to be reported as much more centred, being able to meditate or lay still (Without screaming or shaking uncontrollably)

A question to anyone who is (Or might know someone) experienced. Is this the case?

Another question that has risen is intention. Majority of the people traveling to the amazon to drink with a shaman are looking to better themselves and their lives.

I hear of very few people who use the medicine to communicate with the universe and develop insights into its inner workings.

If anyone has anything to say about this, i would love to hear it :) 

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I've done something over 30 ceremonies in Peru over the years all with Maestros and Maestras.  That being said I have often journeyed all the rest of the night and into the morning with plenty of deep solo time.  The healers are guides.  They can take you deeper, much deeper.  They open doors we cant even find the handle to.  it is a working space they have spent 7 years minimum training to navigate in.  Shaking is often a blissful release.  Screaming isn't as common as one might think but can be part of someone's process.  Discomfort and an aya ceremony are part and parcel with eachother.  If you don't find your edge whats the point?  That is where growth happens.  Actually during icaros is when i have flowered most deeply, every. single. time.  This was when i felt myself rewoven.  The icaros are the plants guiding the medicine through the interplanar conduit of the shaman and healing us on a physical, emotional, energetic and spiritual level.  The plants come, other plants.  They reach in and do stuff that beggars comprehension.  They clean and open us, merge with us with incredible compassion.  This is when I was taught most just how to remain present.  When I trusted the guidance and found samadhi, shamatha, vipassana and tumbling waves of insights that followed.  These states were most powerfully accessed and developed with help.  Without the shaman often the medicine will largely lay dormant.  It is still very psychedelic but with a shaman the dose can mean absolutely nothing with how intense things can get.

As for inntention.  We are connected to it all of of course we know that but inside the personal work is the ripening of the fruit of insight.  Most people, even those who think they do not have deep work to do on themselves and wish to connect with the universe, often end up finding that personal work.  i now go back to deepen my connection and unnderstanding, and every time she takes me back into my "self".  Insights come when we are purified of the delusion.  Mother Aya is helping clear what we carry that prevents us from being able to experience vipassana/insight and thus wisdom in daily life.  There should be no reasonn we are not enliightened on the spot if we have no work to do to understand our selves.  

Sitting with a good Maestro/Maestra will completely change your perspective of psychedelic medicines forever.  They see and mother aya sees and the plant spirits see and like a symphony they guide you like you are simply not capable to do without going and dedicating a significant portion of your lifetime to learning the shaman's role.  i don;t know if that answered your questions.  Let me know if you'd like clarification.

Edited by Mapacho
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Thank you so much for the reply! 

I by no means think i don't need healing (just a different intention thats all)

In these powerful plant journeys i have always sought to be humbled and awe-struck by the voice of the plant with insights into the wider world and the cosmos itself.

 

5 hours ago, Mapacho said:

Without the shaman often the medicine will largely lay dormant.

I have never thought of it like this. I have heard of some ceremonies where the staff play the Icaros from a laptop if no shaman is available.

 

You definitely answered my question, I'm currently being bombarded by information on the topic so it was refreshing to talk to someone about it.

I'll keep you updated with my further travels :)

 

 

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No worries.  Also I went to the temple of the way of light in Peru on the nanay tributary.  They have some good youtube vids on the topic and I can vouch for their retreats as very legit with support and structure, guest ratio and and quality healers.  Wheverever you decide to go, all the best for your journey!  

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On 27.02.2018 г. at 6:09 PM, Mapacho said:

Sitting with a good Maestro/Maestra will completely change your perspective of psychedelic medicines forever.  They see and mother aya sees and the plant spirits see and like a symphony they guide you like you are simply not capable to do without going and dedicating a significant portion of your lifetime to learning the shaman's role

 

Thank you for sahring some of your personal experience and understanding of these realms, Mapacho..

:wub::wub:

 

Have you experienced non-verbal communications with these groups /telepathy/ and  subsequent verbal confirmation about your telepathic conversations ?

 

I believe all beings are frequency modulators and indeed the presence of a steady intent carrier being/shamam,healer or a group of them/ certainly presents the opportunity of their own personal plethora of life experiecies and the frequencies affiliated ...

 

 

 

   my usual in love -
   and lot to learn
   .. erected right 

 

   divine agenda path !

 

 

 

 

Edited by mysubtleascention
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No worries :)  I am glad for people feeling called to exploring this path. I also feel a sense of responsibility to dispel what seems to be misinformation that circulates into the information available to seekers.

I would say that telepathy isn't what I have experienced as part of the transmission taking place.  I have had thoughts and overwhelming non verbal responses that were clearly guidance but all thoughts have been my mind and I would say that a large part of my progress has been learning to know when and what to ask, and when to shut up and just experience.  So often the mind is a mechanism trying to comprehend that which is beyond the conceptual mind.  There is alot of "showing" and "teaching" that takes place beyond words and ideas, where the resulting thoughts and ideas and the "quantification" of the happening actually get in the way of the work being done. 

I agree with you that karmic imprints have certain frequencies.  I see it as distinct vibration from each human emotion, vibrational intensity of will or absorption of tranquility/letting go.  If you know and return from your own darkness, you can better know the darkness of others, and if you know your light then you can lead others into darkness and out from darkness.  This is how a shaman works, teaching the passenger to tame the rage or terror, pierce the doubt, reflect upon the greed, things like that.  I think it is an ability able to be cultivated.  We need to be able to tune into vibrational frequencies without falling prey to emotions and then attenuate them in the direction we want to go.  Electromagnetic waves and fields are transmitted and received by the body, including the heart.  The theory and evidence that the human heart can be a powerful sense organ for this communication is touched on by some, such as Stephen Harold Buhner.  It is fascinating stuff but I tend to focus on direct experience as my guide.

As a wise zen master with little english said once when he came to the west, what he thought of Buddhism (and I reflect that this encompasses more than the dhamma): He said "Books books books....too many too many too many...dust bin dust bin dust bin. :wink:  Mind is a crossroads of agendas upon the path to divinity.

There have been amazing shared experiences in ceremony between two or more than two, but in the end if they are not used in the right way they just become a fond memory, a cool story.  The work is much deeper than that and in truth ceremony does not begin with the cup or end with the morning light. 

Now this is all said, I would say very honestly: I am but a child.  I know nothing.      

Edited by Mapacho
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Thank you so much for your time and insight into this thread. I feel like i have so much to learn from you :huh:

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  this dance is all -
  the rage
  .. now 

 

  heart is born a child !

 

 

 

 

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  Health dynamic as evolvong frequency is serving as a safe base for the body and mind to return at, while furthering the evolution/development and exploration of the unknown spaces. Inability to consciously or unconsciously bridge the sure-footed health "base" frequency with the various new mundane energetic engagements and to achieve integrity and balance for the new, is a health state modifying factor .
  Illness is usually a deep mind-altering experience aiming towards anchoring a new state of balance and 'psycho-somatic' is the shamanic approach for body and mind.

 'Without the shaman often the medicine will largely lay dormant' might also be formulated as exploring different energies and mind states than those to be explored with an experienced partner .
Masturbation has its own value for self-exploration as well as the sexual intercourse with an experienced partner.
When two people are in love and they explore in each-other sexually, the frequencies engaged and visited/anchored as reality are very different than those explored with a casual acquaintance or even a good old friend as a partner, even a very experienced one.

Same is valid for ceremony, I think..

 

Have you met / interacted with shamans who are in love with each-other?

:wub::wub:

 

 

 

 

Edited by mysubtleascention
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1 hour ago, Horus said:

When I first heard about aya in 2000, I hopped online and bought a bunch of ingredients from a supplier in Britain, 

and had my first journeys alone in the garden. They were powerful and great...

Horus....dude, this entire post of yours (not just the quoted bit) is probably the most eloquent and intelligent explanation of Aya use I've ever read.

So wanted to say thanks heaps for posting your thoughts man!!!!!!!

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No worries Cubism,

Everybody is still stuck on who to drink with and where.

Shackled by tradition and context.

But there are whole new "next level" practices that we can be guided to by this plant.

There could be no limits once we bust thru anchoring paradigms.

People are focused on the human factors, and we dont give this plant the credit deserves.

 

I have plant consciousness access thru it and it has human consciousness access thru me.

And we are a team, like Batman and Robin, awakening folks.

It never gives me challenging clients, it never wigs out people or gives me a handful of problems.

Because everybody is nurtured commensurate with how I have nurtured the vine. Simples.

 

23 minutes ago, Cubism said:

Horus....dude, this entire post of yours (not just the quoted bit) is probably the most eloquent and intelligent explanation of Aya use I've ever read.

So wanted to say thanks heaps for posting your thoughts man!!!!!!!

Ha, Im being interviewed under the vine for a documentary this week,

so yeah, I have been collecting my thoughts to be as articulate as possible.

Thanks for the feedback, means Im on the right track to explain non-traditional use and next level value adding.

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All the best with the doco mate.  I'm sure you'll smash it!  

If you don't mind, please let me know when the finished product is available to watch.

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Over the years I've met many Shaman. The first was back in the early Nineties. He was doing Aya ceremony's in Bali as part of a corporate retreat for Japanese business executives. I'm not bagging the fella, he was a good bloke and clearly knew his stuff. However, despite what his business card said, this is not what I consider a Shaman. To me a Shaman is a healer, not a business man, they are found working with needy villagers, not doing ceremony's for wealthy tourists. It's just my opinion, but if you have the choice between doing a ceremony with a knowledgeable friend, in a relaxed setting, or going with someone who cares more about the content of your wallet, that your mind. I think the answer is obvious.

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Horus, thanks for sharing. Your vine is bloody amazing!  Do you use tobacco/mapacho in communing with your vine/clients? 

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1 hour ago, Mapacho said:

Horus, thanks for sharing. Your vine is bloody amazing!  Do you use tobacco/mapacho in communing with your vine/clients? 

Cheers, no Ive never felt the call for mapacho.

If im smudging a big group, I use Acacia.

I was "instructed" to get a traditional Chapaka and was shown a vibrational cleansing using Aqua de flora and

throat singing vibration. A fragrant fanning percussive droning with a unique beat and melody for every person, depending on their 

energetic needs, channeled thru the vine. 

With bigger groups, usually with cactus, I work with a partner who has trained with a Cactus shaman and she uses Mapacho when available.

She is bringing the Shaman over in spring, so I get to hang with a Cactus Superman who doses every day. My first Shaman.

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Horus, the brief time I spent with your vine recently was very special to me. And I love to be with my baby vine every day...drinking a brew of your own vine is a very rewarding experience, same goes for all plants.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mapacho said:

Horus, thanks for sharing. Your vine is bloody amazing!  Do you use tobacco/mapacho in communing with your vine/clients? 

Until you see this vine up close you just can't imagine how amazing it is. It's really something to behold.

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Horus, what are gorgeous garden! That vine is incredible! I would love to see it some day.

What are your views on brews that don't use the vine, rather syrian rue? Its much more available for most people

Edited by TheMooseZeus
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  shamanic polyamory -
  world leadership
  .. orgasmic childbirths

 

  including spirituality !

 

 

 

 

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On 3/4/2018 at 9:32 PM, TheMooseZeus said:

Horus, what are gorgeous garden! That vine is incredible! I would love to see it some day.

What are your views on brews that don't use the vine, rather syrian rue? Its much more available for most people

I run an "aya [email protected]"  your welcome to hop on the queue and book in.PM for details.

Im not big on rue, it "feels" like a poison to me. And has no heart or nurture, no story or dialogue.  

Its alright for potentiating shrooms. 

 

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This thread started as aya discussion and now I'm thinking maybe we are ripe for a new subforum, say "Shamanic science" where in a non-competive manner we can share and discuss experience upon these and other related topics:


- Raw spirituality.Shamanic additions to raw spirituality.World religions as guided spirituality. 

 

- Developing psychic abilities/sensitivity through plant use and navigation in psychic realms.Psychic symbiosis with plant spirits /spiritual symbiosis/ as a form of self-empowerment. Spiritual and psychic exploitation of people.Psychic parasitism and energetic vampirism.Possessions by spirits.Walk-ins.

 

- Nurturing plants as spiritual/shamanic practice.Hybridising the plants as carriers of spirits and designing realities which plants carry with their alkaloid combinations /contents. 

 

- Commercial shamanism and gardener shamanism.

 

- Trans-personal issues and what is acceptable as intervention /ethics of intervention/.

 

- Shamanic techniques of personal intervention.Textbook of modern shamanism as achievable purpose for modern science.Shamanic science - future development.

 

- Weaponising of shamanism and unethical psychic interventions.

 

- Psychic attack types and defences.Mind control.Psychic greed.Intentional and unintentional harm to others.Main types of harmful energies and acts. 
 
- 'in love' as vibrational frequency/ILVF/.Shamanic anchoring of 'ILVF' as a base frequency in interactions.Shamanic polyamory alternative to sex magic.

 

- Shamanic art as communication of frequencies and shamanic art-forms.Shamanic symbols.Writing as combination of image and sound frequencies.Shamanic interventions mediated by art.

 

- Shamanic use of sound,smell,taste,touch,image for anchoring frquency/reality.
 
- Shamanic use of crystals .

 

- Shamanic use of fetish for anchoring frequency/reality.


- Spiritual context of fixations and addictions.Sex addiction.Food addicton.Substance addiction.Other addictions.

 

 

 

 

Edited by mysubtleascention
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I'm not sure how much traction it would get but I like the idea.

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Something similar to this topic is a what Patricio Dominguez (The guy from the Spirit Molecule) talks about in this video great video, well worth the watch.

I would love to hear your opinions on it.

 

He speaks about teachers or spiritual guides not in Ayahuasca rituals but in everyday life. Like a spiritual mentor. I find this to be a very interesting topic and could help launch people deeper into their journeys without getting hurt. It may even be useful to have a mentor system on a forum like this. 

Edited by TheMooseZeus
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