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Alchemica

Fermenting cacao! An experiment

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So I wonder what we can ferment cacao into? Change the polyphenol contents, alter tryptamine, tyramine and spermidine (polyamine NMDAR modulator). Quite interesting. I've got some L. acidophilus doped cacao. Maybe I should add a bit of water and yoghurt one of my cacao sessions up. Wonder what the traditional fermentation involves? Here we go:

Bioactive amines and phenolic compounds in cocoa beans are affected by fermentation.

Three fermentations were carried out in wooden boxes (45 kg capacity) containing three compartments. The beans were placed into the first compartment, covered with banana leaves (natural yeast source) and by burlap bags to keep the generated heat. After 48 h, the resulting fermented mass was transferred to the second compartment, where it remained for another 48 h, and afterwards, it was turned over daily until the end of the process. After 96 h, the mass was transferred to the third compartment, where it was allowed to ferment for up to 168 h, always covered by banana leaves and burlap bags.
 

Cocoa beans are widely known to contain proteins that can be hydrolyzed by microorganism (yeasts, filamentous fungi, lactic acid and acetic acid bacteria) releasing free amino acids, which can undergo decarboxylase activity by some bacterial enzymes to form amines
 

The presence of tyramine and tryptamine in fresh cocoa beans were already reported (Oracz & Nebesny, 2014) and should be highlighted. These compounds, at low concentrations modulate vaso- and neuro-activities relevant to man; however, high concentrations of tyramine can be detrimental to human health: they may induce headache and hypertension to susceptible individuals (Ancín-Azpilicueta, González-Marco, & Jiménez-Moreno, 2008). According to EFSA (Hazards, 2011), sensitive individuals and those under classical monoamine inhibitor drugs should not be exposed to any tyramine.


From the second day until the end of fermentation (7th day), spermidine (polyamine) become the predominant bioactive amine, contributing from 38 to 55% to the total of bioactive amines in cocoa beans during the fermentation. The presence of spermidine and spermine in the cocoa beans is expected since these amines are inherent to plants and all living organisms as they are involved in cell growth, renewal and metabolism. The increase on spermidine contents during fermentation is desirable considering that this compound is an effective antioxidant, which is beneficial for products shelf life and human health (Glória, 2005; Kalac, 2014).
 

According to Table 3, the contents of tryptamine and spermine varied throughout fermentation, but remained below 0.30 and 0.70 mg/100 g, respectively. The concentration of tyramine increased up to the 4th fermentation day, decreasing afterwards to initial contents.
 

Spermidine concentrations increased up to the 3rd fermentation day, maintaining the contents throughout fermentation. It is well known that spermidine is synthesized and metabolized by microorganisms during growth; however, no information is available regarding its change during cocoa fermentation. It is also known that bacteria produce some amines, e.g. tyramine, as a protection against the acidic environment (Shukla, Park, Kim, & Kim, 2010).
 

Other bioactive amines, which were not found in our study, were reported in the literature for fresh cocoa beans, such as phenylethylamine, serotonin, dopamine (J. Oracz & Nebesny, 2014) and histamine (Pastore, Favaro, Badocco, Tapparo, Cavalli, & Saccani, 2005; Smit, 2011; Guillen-Casla, Rosales-Conrado, Leon-Gonzalez, Perez-Arribas, & Polo-Diez, 2012). The difference in the profile of bioactive amines of fresh cocoa beans in the literature could result from differences on cultivars, region of cultivation, growing conditions, degree of ripening, postharvest processes and storage conditions (Bandeira, Evangelista, & Gloria, 2012; J. Oracz & Nebesny, 2014).
 

Right, mad science in progress...

50g cacao powder
10g L acidophilus doped cacao (4 billion CFUs)
60mL water mixed into a firm paste.

I've covered this and I'm going to let nature do it's job for a few days. Time suggestions welcome! 7 days?

 

See if I get something edible! Hopefully funkier!

Edited by Alchemica
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I should probably try this with nibs which might be a more interesting thing to use than cacao powder?

Good yeast to potentially try? Just bakers?

Edited by Alchemica

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Excerpt from:

The Recipe for Rebirth:
Cacao as Fish in the Mythology and Symbolism of the Ancient Maya
Michael J. Grofe, Ph.D.
Department of Native American Studies
University of California at Davis
September 23, 2007

As PDF: www.famsi.org/research/grofe/GrofeRecipeForRebirth.pdf

 

There are in this document numerous references to other papers documenting ancient fermentation practices of Maya with Cacao, which was the primary way they processed the beans, that may be of interest. The fermentation process appears to be symbolically articulated in the Popul Vuh (as PDF: www.mesoweb.com/publications/Christenson/PopolVuh.pdf ) (One of the “Hero Twins” that saves humanity designs the way to process cacao into chocolate by fermentation).

 

This is scratching the surface, might be of interest, good luck.

 

 

 

Cacao and the Hero Twins
While the Hero Twins are compared with terrestrial maize in the Popol Vuh, their
simultaneous death and rebirth in the underworld strongly suggests an association with cacao. This
pattern follows Martin’s observation that cacao is associated with the underworld, while maize
appears as its analogue on the surface of the earth (Martin 2006:170). With their father likened to a
cacao tree, the Hero Twins may metaphorically represent cacao seeds, and their fate in the
underworld implicitly illustrates this comparison.
When the Hero Twins come of age, they discover the ball game equipment of their father
and uncle. Like their father and uncle before them, the twins soon anger the Lords of Death by
playing loudly, and they are then invited to play another deadly game of ball in Xibalbá, but this
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time something is different. These twins are smarter and more fearless, as they are endowed with
magical powers (Tedlock 1996:111–19).
The twins endure many tests, including the ball game, but they are not defeated. They pass
through the houses of cold, knives, fire, jaguars, and bats, and they persist, despite even the
decapitation of Hunahpu (Tedlock 1996:119–29). Eventually, after a final ball game, the Lords of
Death tire of their adversaries’ ability to outsmart them, and they plot to kill the twins by inviting
them to a drinking celebration. Here, the Lords of Death plan to burn the twins in a pit oven
disguised as a vat used to prepare an intoxicating sweet drink.
The precise word for the drink in the Popol Vuh is ki’, or ‘sweet drink’—commonly known
as a boiled, fermented, maguey and honey mixture (Tedlock 1996:131, 245). The term ki’ confers
the meaning of sweet, delicious, and rich throughout the Maya area, within both K’iche’ and
Yucatec (Campbell 1971: 205; Bricker 1999: 127). Though often associated with maguey, ki’ also
refers to chicha, a fermented drink made from a variety of fruits, berries or maize (Christenson
2003: 103). Henry Bruman characterizes the Maya lowlands as a region in which these kinds of
fruit and honey drinks are the preferred alcoholic preparations, whereas maguey agaves are less
prevalent in these wetter areas (Bruman 2000: 3; 91-97). The drink mentioned in the Popol Vuh
may well have been fermented cacao wine made from the boiled pulp of the fresh cacao pod, known
to have been made by the Maya and elsewhere in Mesoamerica (McNeil 2006:346; Henderson and
Joyce 2006:143–45) . Considering the following passage, this remains a strong possibility.
The Lords of Death invite the twins to jump over the drink, with the intention of pushing
them into the fire. Instead, the twins decide to willingly jump directly into the flames. Here, like
cacao bean children of their cacao pod father, the twins are burned and their bones are ground into
powder on a metate, “just like hard corn is refined into flour” (Tedlock 1996:130, 131). This
reference to corn would at first seem to suggest that the twins represent the preparation of maize.
However, a closer analysis of this passage reveals that it parallels the complex, multi-stage process
of refining cacao as described in Young (1996:74–79):
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(1) the burial of the seeds and pulp (entering the underworld)
(2) fermentation (fermented sweet drink)
(3) roasting (jumping into the fire)
(4) grinding (bones ground on metate)
(5) mixing with water (poured into a river)
This passage may metaphorically describe the origin of cacao use and the processing of the
ritual drink. Girard (1979:252) interprets descriptions of previous worlds in the Popol Vuh as
stages of social development, including the discovery of various agricultural and cultural
technologies:
We have in fact followed the process of formation of maize, fabrication of cigars, the origin
of the calabash and the place where it was first known, incense, the ball game, the beginning
of the potter's art, the use of the grinding stone, the evolution of the calendar, etc. As for
cacao, we learn that two varieties existed….we have additional information in the Quiché
manuscript of Francisco Garcia Calel Tzunpán, which mentions that a king, Hunahpú, was
the discoverer of cacao and of cotton.
The story of the death of the Hero Twins expands upon Girard’s thesis, providing the
possible missing elements in the story of the origin of cacao, and a rationale for Hunahpu as its
discoverer. The two varieties of cacao mentioned in the Popol Vuh include both cacao and pek, or
pataxte (Theobroma bicolor), a species related to Theobroma cacao, but of inferior quality and
taste (Tedlock 1996:111, 146, 352).
Not all contemporary preparations of cacao are roasted, as some beans are ground after
having dried in the sun (McNeil 2006:344–45). Likewise, there are other known Mesoamerican
drinks made from fermented maize seeds, such as maize chicha and tesgüino, made from
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germinated maize seeds, yet none of these are roasted or ground following fermentation (Bruman
2000:37; 95-97). Similar to the Ch’orti’ chilate, a common Maya concoction combines toasted
maize with fermented and roasted cacao and red achiote to form a ritual drink known as q’atuj
among the Tz’utujil (Stanzione 2000:189). The intimate connection between cacao and maize may
indicate that the Hero Twins represent this sacred combination, but it becomes clear in the following
passage that their self-sacrifice in the underworld specifically seems to emphasize cacao.
The fresh pulp of the cacao pod surrounding each seed is used in the fermenting process
and in the creation of cacao wine. Cacao seeds, unpalatable and bitter in their raw state, were
probably initially discarded until it was discovered that the fermented and roasted seeds produce the
novel flavor of chocolate. However the complex technology of cacao processing was discovered, the
mythical retelling of this process in the K’iche’ narrative of the Hero Twins may reveal underlying
spiritual and symbolic meanings associated with cacao. This metaphor of cacao processing in the
Popol Vuh continues as the powdered bones of the twins are spilled into a river. When mixed with
the water of the river, much like the last stage of making the cacao drink, the twins are soon
resurrected as two fish-men, which then transform back into masked human forms of Hunahpu and
Xbalanque:
They were seen in the water by the people. The two of them looked like catfish
[winaq kar, literally ‘person fish’] when their faces were seen by Xibalba. And
having germinated in the waters, they appeared the day after that as two vagabonds...
(Tedlock 1996:132, 280).


 

 

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Thank you kindly @Micromegas Interesting stuff. I'll let that sit in my mind during a few cacao drinks and see what the plant says to me!

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1 hour ago, Alchemica said:

I should probably try this with nibs which might be a more interesting thing to use than cacao powder?

 

Good yeast to potentially try? Just bakers?

I have tried adding cacao powder to fermenting drinks...man that can get messy. Nibs are much easier to filter out, and you don't seem to get any extra flavour from using a fine powder - or at least not enough to make all the rounds of decanting & filtering worthwhile.

 

I was mostly using the nibs to flavour kombucha during secondary fermentation (eg. 1tblsp nibs, 1tsp cardamom pods, 1 small cinnamon stick, 1 red chilli, 1 tsp brown sugar for 1L kombucha) - possibly not a high enough concentration of actives for your purposes, but delicious nonetheless - the combination of acidity & slight alcohol content seems really good at extracting a wide range of flavours.

 

Not sure about the ideal yeast - that paper said that lactic & acetic bacteria worked as well as yeast, so you could probably try a whole range of things where the results would have similar active-conversion but different flavour profiles: any kinds of unpasteurised whey, kefir, kombucha, beer/wine yeasts should all work as starters, and I am guessing those traditional brews most likely were colonised by wild yeasts rather than using any starter at all... take your pick.

 

I'm interested to hear how your paste turns out, or to hear more about traditional cacao fermenting or modern adaptations. I am becoming increasingly convinced that more food should be fermented...possibly ALL the food. :drool2:

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I reckon a Belgian Trappist style yeast (brettanomyces) would bring some interesting phenolics to the party. Either that or it would be horribly goaty/mousey! Only one way to find out I guess...

 

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I'd try a turbo yeast, the kind used to ferment a brew for making spirits or a champagne yeast. Turbo yeast can ferment up to about 20% and champagne yeast can go to around 15% alcohol. You'd have to feed it sugar to get it cranking though, the natural sugars in cacao would be consumed very fast by that type of yeast. It could be a bit erratic this time of year if the temps drift outside the optimal range though.

 

With a turbo yeast that's going to ferment to around 20% alc. it could help to get the amines into solution. As Anodyne suggested it would get messy with cacao powder but with a turbo yeast a lot of the powder would settle on the bottom of the fermentation vessel with the lees and could possibly be encouraged to settle out with finings, gelatin or a day or two in a freezer.

 

Home distiller has a few online calcs for sugar to water ratios and volumes ect

Sugar calculator

Alcohol yield calculator

 

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Thanks for the help all. Going to wander up to the brew shop and grab some supplies. 2L flagons, airlocks etc. See if I can find some brettanomyces. I'm mainly interested in kombucha... but mad science while I'm being chocolately keeps me balanced

 

Kind of feeling a kombucha cacao bevvy would be more my style. Reflecting my recovering LFTs and all that... probiotics, cacao flavonols, alkaloids, minerals... oh yeah! My L acidophilus cacao paste smells great, so chocolatey, see what it's like after 7 days!

 

That said, a project harnessing the transformative potential of a brettanomyces yeast that hooks up interesting phenolics while also transforming constituents to enrich bioactive alkaloids is rather my sort of fermentation process...

 

So once I have my yeast, I'm thinking to prepare a 'mash'. The alkaloids like theobromine are slightly water-soluble (330 mg/L) but the flavonols should go into solution relatively well. Maybe at higher EtOH combinations during fermentation, the theobromine might solubilise better? I actually don't want to lose too much flavonol contents. Should I be using a bit of ascorbic acid to preserve the flavonol contents? Feed it sufficient additional sugar for EtOH production or start with sufficient sugar from the onset? Been yonks since I brewed and I never mastered the art. Not expecting drinkable results for first batches, just some curious science seeing what happens. Also I want to KISS and run it at simple RT without external temperature control. Would that be overly counterproductive this time of the year?
 

Also good options for gravity filtering painful solutions without having to do vacuum filtration appreciated. Just a bit of diatomaceous earth or something and some good filter papers? Gave up my vacuum pump.
 

Epicatechin [(-)-epicatechin is the abundant flavonol in cacao] is an antioxidant flavonoid, occurring especially in woody plants as both (+)-catechin and (-)-epicatechin (cis) forms. Catechin is a tannin peculiar to green and white tea because the black tea oxidation process reduces catechins in black tea. Catechin is a powerful, water soluble polyphenol and antioxidant that is easily oxidized. Several thousand types are available in the plant world. As many as two thousand are known to have a flavon structure and are called flavonoids. Catechin is one of them. Green tea is manufactured from fresh, unfermented tea leaves; the oxidation of catechins is minimal, and hence they are able to serve as antioxidants. Researchers believe that catechin is effective because it easily sticks to proteins, blocking bacteria from adhering to cell walls and disrupting their ability to destroy them. Viruses have hooks on their surfaces and can attach to cell walls. The catechin in green tea prevents viruses from adhering and causing harm. Catechin reacts with toxins created by harmful bacteria (many of which belong to the protein family) and harmful metals such as lead, mercury, chrome, and cadmium.

Edited by Alchemica

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I'll keep @Anodyne 's suggestion of nibs in mind. Probably batch up some brewed nibs and powder out of interest

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First attempt will be something like a 10%, just a 2L trial batch for an experiement

So while my cacao alcohol bevvy is not going to be my ritual drink of choice, trying to work this out. I require approx 17g of sugar for every %.litre of alcohol we want to make. If I can go for a 10% maybe using a high alcohol tolerant attenuative ale strain along with a small amount of Brettanomyces. The blend will ferment well in dark worts, producing fruity beers with nice complexity. The Brettanomyces adds a pie cherry-like flavour and sourness during prolonged aging... see exactly what my brew shop can offer.
 

With a solubility 330mg/L theobromine and the beans contain theobromine (1.0–2.5%) and caffeine (0.06–0.4%), we could estimate roughly the cacao powder has similar? Community suggestions on cacao g/L powder to add or something for one batch for starters? Group project, seeing I wont be drinking much of this stuff purely due to not resonating with alcohol, I want the funky yeast doing some cacao magic.

 

It's 7am and my brain is rusty. Some morning math wizard let me know what you'd try! Or throw an informed guess on what I should put into 2L at me.

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I was thinking the alcohol would help with solubility too, that's why I suggested the turbo yeast. After a bit of reflection I think a sugar brew made with turbo yeast wouldn't be very palatable even if the alcohol does help to get the actives into solution.

 

Another way would be to try a water kefir ferment. Dom's Kefir has a good overview of using water kefir grains to enhance bio availabilty of ginseng and chinese angelica. Milk kefir was traditionally ferment with snow rose to enhance its medicinal value as well.

 

Dom's Kefir - Tibicos

Dom's Kefir

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I think it was Waterboy posted a link to download a book about Mead (can't remember the name) and other medicinal beers one time, is was an excellent resource on fermenting and had a lot of info about mead enhanced with heather for it's therapeutic effect.

 

I was thinking a honey cacao mead would make a very nice drink.

 

The book is on one of my backup drives somewhere, so I can't put my hand on it right now. I'll poke around for it and get back if I find it.

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I just went trough 16 USB drives looking for that book about mead/beer and of course it was on the last fucking one. I really need to organise my backups better.

 

The book is called Sacred and herbal healing beers, by Stephen Harrod Buhner. I can't find a download link that doesn't need a subscription or isn't paywalled.  I'll try a direct upload and see if that works.

Stephen_Harrod_Buhner-Sacred_and_herbal_healing_beers__the_secrets_of_ancient_fermentation__-Siris_Books_(1998).pdf

Stephen_Harrod_Buhner-Sacred_and_herbal_healing_beers__the_secrets_of_ancient_fermentation__-Siris_Books_(1998).pdf

Stephen_Harrod_Buhner-Sacred_and_herbal_healing_beers__the_secrets_of_ancient_fermentation__-Siris_Books_(1998).pdf

Edited by Sallubrious
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So people think I try something like this small scale? Want to cram in as much cacao as possible though

Trying to work out the best recipe to modify...  use cacao instead of corn, see if that works.

Thinking something simple like this.

8 quarts water (7.6L)
1 pound germinated corn (454g)
2 cups brown sugar
8 whole allspice or cloves
ale yeast

Crush rather coarsely and place in the brewpot with 8 quarts cold water. Stir and let sit one hour. Bring to a boil, add the sugar, then lower the heat and simmer three hours (stirring regularly). Add spices at end of boil. Remove and let sit undisturbed one hour. Then strain the liquid portion into a fermenter using a colander or wire basket lined with cheesecloth. When coolpitch yeast. Ferment at room temperature ( 6 0 to 75 degrees F) for five days. Rack to secondary and ferment one or two more weeks until clarified. Bottle using 1 teaspoon corn sugar per bottle for priming. Allow two more weeks of bottle-conditioning before drinking.

Wondering what people would estimate alcohol concentration like in such a blend?

Edited by Alchemica

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Local brewer at the brew shop suggested I start with a Safbrew WB-06 Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae).
 

Specialty yeast selected for wheat beer fermentations. Produces subtle estery and phenol flavor notes typical of wheat beers. Allows to brew beer with a high drinkability profile and presents a very good ability to suspend during fermentation. This yeast has a relatively high alcohol tolerance and will recondition beers up to 12%-14% ABV

Right my initial process is 1. get sacredly mega under the influence of Cacao and let the spirit drive the brew manufacture. 2. That resulted in the following:

200g cacao powder
680g dextrose (aiming for 10% alcohol)
5g ascorbic acid
in 2L water, boiled, poured in 5L vessel.

Made to 4L with boiled cooled water. Allowed to cool to RT.
 

2.3g Safbrew WB-06
2g Cerevit yeast vitamins
4g Diammonium phosphate allowed to mix in min. water, added.

Sitting in a 5L air-locked percarbonate + washed sterilised vessel

 

First attempt at a cacao brew... see what it tastes like.

 

Improvements welcome. This is just a basic attempt... Have more ingredients and a 5L vessel

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It will be interesting to see how it turns out. Maybe it will behave a bit like a whiskey mash and form a cake on top of the brew. Some people stir the cake back into the brew, which is something you may have to consider doing to get all the cacao submerged and fermenting.

 

One thing I've found (especially in warm weather) is that some brews can really foam up and overflow, so it can pay to have the fermenter somewhere that will be safe if it overflows

Edited by Sallubrious
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I'm doing an alcohol free version for me to explore of yeasted cacao paste. Not keen to taking a liking to cacao alcohol so I'm being careful...

Wild science guesses - 200mg WB-06, 200mg Cerevit, 200mg diammonium phosphate added to 20mL of water. This was then added to 20g cacao powder to form a firm paste. This was done without much regard to sterility.


I'm going to let this sit for a week and see what it does to the fragrance, flavours and then if it seems safe to ingest, try it to see if I can notice new biogenic amines.

My L. acidophilus cacao still smells good and maybe even developing more respectable, richer chocolatey scent. I'm thinking I'll try roasting a bit, trying the traditional approach of Cacao, after it's had the chance to do it's alchemical transformation and see what that does taste wise. Will negate the probiotic effects but it's only acidophilus...

Well the cacao brew is already brewing real nicely - going off tap... such a rich environment for yeast to get funky and do some extra magic. Hope I don't get this stuff brewing too rapidly that it overflows in the flask... Maybe you'll soon be having chocolate goodness, the way it should be, on tap.
 

So this alcohol brew should have 10 cacao doses per 4L, 20g cacao goodness rich in flavonols, methylxanthine alkaloids, Mg, Fe etc. Please correct my math, I'm thinking that means in addition you'll get 400mL of 10% EtOH. Really hoping it is palatable chocolately goodness. Might need to add some sugars or something sweetening later, not sure if you can do that? I'm going for straight ethanol production to leech out my alkaloids, flavonols and socially lubricate!
 

Hopefully this yeast will be a tasty phenolic and ester additive that will add interesting complexity. Funky bioactive cacao amines to add. Just hope it doesn't get rich on tyramine and we instead get the interesting amines!
 

Each serve, if my math is right, provides approx. 4 standards? to have in that cacao session. Guess that's healthy for a sitting? The flavonols should be hepato- and neuroprotective providing they don't get too degraded!

Edited by Alchemica

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There's a little hesitation to be mixing Cacao with alcohol from a few angles. I say this as I knew the dark side of alcohol all too well...
 

Yet I'm trying it! Why? A cacao drink actually opens a new healing frontier. If this is something that tastes reasonable, IF, and also opens them to new Divine Cacao dimensions, they may be able to aim to lessen their own individual detrimental use of alcohol and begin a more healthy relationship with plants. It also allows for initial easier connection in individuals that may have additional anxiety.
 

This is not meant to be an attempt to optimise your getting loose with some added cacao and alcohol but once again healing.

 

Please understand my intention!


My yeasted Cacao paste became interesting olfactorily within a couple of hours. Rich fruity wine-like fruit fragrances became prominent. These have rounded out to a rich chocolatey complex scent today. Smells really nice. See what more time does! I'm hoping my flavonol contents isn't going to be degraded too much? Could I add vitamin C to preserve flavonols?

 
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@Anodyne I'm whipping up a batch of kombucha, too, following a tea-sugar-commercial kombucha base to grab me a scoby...


I really want to try a simple kombucha ascorbic acid tea modification, just as an experiment which means people can buy one bottle of quality kombucha and culture up litres of probiotic rich tasty tea goodness, do their own planty flavours, bit of ginseng/turmeric etc at home on the cheap without the scoby. Just while I'm waiting for the scoby. Out of interest!
 

What are your thoughts on such? If I just use a sterile 5L brew environment, a load of tea, some sugar, ascorbic acid to preserve tea polyphenols (I could do cacao flavonols) and minimise chances for pathological bacterial growth and add a bottle of commercial kombucha... Let it brew for a week? Might get some probiotic goodness happening on the easy-to-do level?
 

So my kombucha culture that I've got on the go contains Bacillus coagulans GBI-30 6086. Has anyone seen health benefits on this as a probiotic?
 

It seems it's a winner! According to all parameters, B. coagulans has been proved to be more effective as compared to the Linex Forte reference product containing lacto- and bifidobacteria. [1]
 

A significant decrease in the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines, such as TNF-α which was similar to the anti-inflammatory effect of indomethacin.
 

Probiotic Bacillus coagulans GBI-30, 6086 reduces exercise-induced muscle damage and increases recovery.
 

There are interesting applications like spicing up plant bases, ginseng etc with this stuff.

Add the vitamin C for it's supposed? action keeping acidity regulated for beneficial bacteria + I want to really ascorbic my kombucha up to high level ascorbic acid:
 

"the anti-immobility effect of ascorbic acid and ketamine in TST may involve an activation of GABAA receptors and a possible inhibition of GABAB receptors"

 

"data indicates an effect for ascorbic acid in preventing alterations induced by Ket in an animal model of SZ, suggesting that it may be an adjuvant approach for the development of new therapeutic strategies within this psychiatric disorder. [normalises AChE]"
 

"...results showed that the primary mechanisms underlying ascorbic acid therapeutic advantages relates closely with its abilities to scavenge free radicals, prevent membrane lipid peroxidation, modulate neuronal bioenergetics, act as AChE inhibitor and through its anti-proteolytic properties. These findings suggest that supplementing endogenous AA capacity through its pharmacological intake may inhibit progression of AD-related neurodegenerative processes and behavioural alterations."
 

High-dose vitamin C was effective in reducing anxiety and blood pressure in response to stress.


Does Vitamin C Influence Neurodegenerative Diseases and Psychiatric Disorders? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28654017

Ascorbic Acid to Manage Psychiatric Disorders: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28600627

Edited by Alchemica

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I want to capture some of the early days of my L acidophilus cacao paste and WB-06 yeast cacao paste...
 

I've removed 2.5g of each paste and spread over foil. It's now baking at 180 deg. C. What would be a good cacao roast temp? How long? Not sure...

 

See if I can get something like a Milliard reaction etc going, maybe I should add some sugars? and see what it does to the flavours!

After 20min, paste is dried and smell of some chocolatey goodness permeating the kitchen. The L. acidophilus is a chocolatey, warm, pleasant smell while the WB-06 is a robust slightly rubbery smelling chocolate, niceish but tainted slightly - not smelling at all like the fruity wine components which are evident in the paste and likely are quite volatile.

After about 45min at 180 deg. C so much of all the aroma is gone 1f641.png:( Both smell similar, not much scent. As for taste:

Acidophilus: slightly woody. Not the best. Cacao powder with a bit of woody bitterness.

WB-06: Not particularly enjoyable. Bitterish. Some roasted enjoyable flavours present.

Have to work out better conditions, seems it needs to be really modified.

I'll let the bacteria and yeast modify the pastes for longer!

Edited by Alchemica

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I grew a scobyusing bottles of kombucha from woolies as a starter. It took a few batches to get a good scoby going but it kicked on quite well.

 

Is there a commercial brand of Kombucha selling a drink with that strain of bacillus coagulans or did you buy some specific culture that has been lab tested?

 

Most of the commercial stuff I see in supermarkets is very scant on details such as the microbiological profile.

 

I'm thinking of getting back into the Kombucha myself.

 

 

Edited by Sallubrious
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Yeah this is a commercial SA brand that labels the goodies!
 

Made up the Vitamin C rooibos kombucha mad science brew. Don't know if I'll drink it - see what happens. Only using 1.5g/L ascorbic, I'll up that later but 40g/L rooibos tea so it's polyphenol loaded.
 

This will be interesting, polyphenols in their aglycone form inhibit the growth of many microbial species. Whereas, their related glycosides did not affect bacterial viability. In addition, the catechin, which is which is available only as an aglycone, did not have an inhibitory effect in contrast to other selected polyphenols. Will rooibos tea totally inhibit desired B. coagulans growth or simply be protective against pathological bacterial growth? See what degree of notable fermentation starts and see if I get scoby formation at all.
 

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