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sagiXsagi

Amanita muscaria ULTIMATE super-duper thread

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DISCLAIMER:  this thread should exist and I am drunk enough to take the responsibility for starting it ... 

 

DISCLAIMER 2: Amanita is no kiddie stuff - this is not material for the hasty youth 

 

I am writting these from a country that thankfully - willfully eating amanita muscaria to cause inebriation is perfectly legal. I haven't eaten them for more than 6-7 years now and there's no real reason for this, but I certainly claim to know a bit of their mechanism as I have drank muscaria and pantherina tea more than a few times - also served tea to others several times. 

I only broke through once. That one time was , actually an  "accident" but I loved it...

 

honestly people dont seem to know about this.. but this seems like a powerful agent to me and the tabboo and ignorance  is starting to annoy me ... 

 

yeah the material is hard to master in a couple ways..

it might not fit you... statistically it wont :P 

you dont have to like it.. 

 

needs a patient, mature person

to realise the same material can do different things on different doses...

and that the dissociative (high) dose is not a choice to be taken lightly,

because that is a realm that resembles conscious dreaming and fears and loss of the ego and consciousness..... 

 

thought - out - experimenting with amanita muscaria should be done by two persons or 3 persons even best .. you got to have a sitter and I am not really here to tell you that , but even at mild doses, when there 's not tripping , if you're like me you're gonna wanna like to socialise on this shit, similar to what alcohol inebriation is, only lots more concentrated and intelligently...  

 

,,, 

 

when talking about dosages

..  

I am giving you some expirential quidelines here - I dont even invite you to play - dont play this game if you dont know what it about 

 

so, the material SHOULD be dried OR brewed / roasted in some way.... the more controlled way is to dry the material and try to homgenise, at least to smaller particles,  and then if you are a more spiritual dude, you can sun-bathe the material and maybe the material likes it as well 

 

they say muscaria does not work in milk to kill flies, but I have seen dead flies in the pan I was sun bathing dried muscaria material! 

 

yeah yeah, all these stuff about ibotenic acid, muscimole and motabolisms, and the whys and howsm there's that.. but people dont learn, dont fancy such stuff , dont really care 

 

dosage ranges of amanita muscaria 

 

when talking about dosages you have to know that I am not suggesting anyone taking anything . these mushrooms can me dangerous and they are reoported to be pretty tense! 

 

it is just annoying that there's such a huge a tabboo around such potentially helpful mushroom and I decided to talk about my past experience with it. 

 ...  

I am giving you the quidelines here - I dont even invite you to play - dont play this game if you dont know what it about 

 

note1: reports with european material as opposed to us reports seem to feat a larger percentage of stomach problems that might indicate a larger muscarine percentage in US specimens...   perhaps this is the reason that european muscarias are regarded more esteemed... 

 

note2: scientific reports show that muscaria stems are much less in actives that caps , so when indicating dosage, a caps only batch would be more potent than a caps and stems batch.... 

 

note3: there are reports that show that muscaria material is slowly metabolised by most individuals, there are reports for 2 hours - BUT, sometimes its really important how fast you drink the tea: if you want to have it mild and more stretched out drink it out slowly - if you want a kick then drink it up fast, and this goes for all doses... 

 

BUT  stupid people go and try up amanita muscaria without a reason ... 

 

and now we are starting to give you some numbers (in grams, dried material) 

 

1-2 (grams of powderised whole mushroom material)   for 3-5 portions of meal : flavor enhancer  

 

 *** also use the powder to season meat 

*** could use the stems for cooking and caps for divination :)  

 

====>>>>  [example with caps and stems material]

 

2-3,5  tonic tea, tasteful along with honey and cinnamon

most people dont feel it, but you might see it looking at them 

 

4-6  base line - where it starts to be felt

 

7-15  (20)  the mid dose range of muscaria is pretty interesting, its a euphoric , inebriating thing that might last as long as 4 hours, the non dissociative doses of amanita muscaria when mastered , resemble alcohol inebriation, and it strongly relates to the rate of intake of tea.

 

      there seems to be an appetite regulator dimention in muscimoles action... this is from both personal and other peoples reports and it might be not dose-related... 

 

(16) 22-35  this is entering the dose range of wanting to break through to the other side, and its true that you can do it at this range... or maybe you can do it at the range of 10-14  caps-only dried material tea.... 

 

YOU CAN UNDERSTAND that all numbers are indicative .. 

 

for caps only (no stems) the number would rather be 

 

2 for the tonic

4-6 for the slightly euphoric 

8-10 for more euphoric 

and 15+ for breakthrough 

 

again, no one should be trying to experiment with muscimole and amanita muscaria.. 

 

I was just fed up with all the rubbish amd thought I ought to share my knowledge of this thing 

Edited by sagiXsagi
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Thanks sagi. I have always been fascinated by amanitas since an early age. The folklore that surrounds them goes back into the mists of history.

 

The first time I found a single specimen more than 25 years ago I picked it and dried it to keep as an amulet.

It would be interesting to know from where amanitas in oz originate. They certainly seem to be more prolific than they used to be. They even grow in urban areas now, I found a patch in a local park last June.

Can we be clear about your dosage guidelines above, the numbers represent dries grams not quantity of carpophores/caps? I think it's important as this is a substance to be treated with the utmost respect.

Edited by Glaukus
Spelling error
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yep the numbers are dried grams 

 

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awesome ,  peeps must've been too patient with them .... , er..

swim's been waaaaaaay lower dosing and by the sounds of it phenominally far too cautious for about 7/8 yrs ,.. and has loads of "just red skin from cap" collected over years, sun dried and then oven baked dryer at about 150C 

they'll be happy to know this finally, thank you!

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Skins>caps>whole>stems

In order of potency, so be careful if dosing skins only.

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I've always felt a connection to this shroom. My old mans side of the family are all new Australians from Finland - there's a lot of Scandinavian and Nordic Folklore surrounding this mushy.

The thought of consumption scares the fuck out of me though...

 

sagi do you have any experience peeling and drying the skins, then smoking the skins? The mulled up red skins and white warts are active when smoked I remember reading somewhere. Is this true?

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swim does, been smoking them like that all those years, they replaced mj for 3 months enabling a hair test passed ;) 

very nice smoke indeed , espesh mixed with D metel and mj , smells like cooking...

not much to write home about other than a really nice smoke enhancer for swimbo

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smells like cooking...

Nice one thunderhorse. Another golden nugget of info, appreciate that one mate. On future travels oversea's (depending on the local laws) I might try this out :wink: sounds interesting.

 

Maybe your swimbo friend could of even put some dried b.caapi material in there too, or would a smoked maoi + muscarine be asking for trouble?

Edited by Skellum
to add b.caapi question
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is nice combo ,

swim tried it with white aya wood splinterings/peeled off strips , which even alone is delicious, tastes like the mossyness of the rainforest

 

smoking is the safest route of administration of most "things" btw...

although lol maybe could scratch a few off the list , perhaps sweetcorn is nicer via oral administration :3

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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smoking is the safest route of administration of most "things" btw...

Yeah roger that man, can you imagine via oral... you'd murder yourself yo: Maoi + Muscarine + Scopolamine + MJ (jeeeeesus, lol)

 

Sounds like a fascinating smoke blend though.

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best one ever was small chopped bits of not much solanum dulcamera stem, white aya bark, bud, datura metel and a sprink of the fly...

felt solanum and datura as if in battle/making love with eachother in the old veins

and even revealed maryj spirit who said "oh now you recognize me who has been here for all these years right inside you" ,...who felt very green and purple... and very very sensually and deliciously spellbindingly feminine 

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I'm starting to mongrel up here mate... :drool2:

You should be writing erotic fantasy.

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the white spots on the cap beings particularly active must be a myth, f.e. in edible amanitas the veil remains are tasteless. I dont know any serious source claiming that and I have't tried it... 

 

but glaukus is right in that the skins are the most potent part.. in particular, not the skins themselves, but the flesh under the skin, so people who peel all flesh to keep the skins are doing it WAY wrong :P I dont know if you realise the difference... 

 

TH>  baking in the over at 150 C sounds like destroying the material, or a part of it... material should be dried as edible mushrooms, and not baked.. the sun part is optional .. somebody propably killed some of it..

 

and yeah , Skellum, its mildly active smoked. perhaps smoking the skin material would me a bit more effective, havent tried it.. 

 

all in all, I dont think there's any point in peeling anything off, the whole mushroom is active and , according to most, tasty.. 

 

honey and cinnamon is nice in a tea, but one could make into a salty soup with onions or dried vegies or something... 

 

homogenise and take the time to get acustomed to the material, where legal, is the best way to get to know this one ... 

Edited by sagiXsagi
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150C is supposed to convert the ibo into musci: as far as someone researched; heat apparently doesn't kill the actives in this mushroom ...and I'd read the very opposite occurs too...,

-I later read ibo melts at 150C and that musci melts at 180C, and that UV light creates muscazone.. (here https://www.shroomery.org/8671/Preparation-of-Amanita-muscaria

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=39108 http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-224033-p-7.html )

 

unlike psillie friends..., which studying revealed , apparently max out at 45C before breakdown...

but hmm, 'still fear that's too high so maybe hit it at lowest setting on the fan.., although I've read some folk have no issues using max setting for years... but i digress!

 

maybe next windfall the whole caps shall be kept intact now that there's a trustworthy experience recipe to learn from.. , still undecided on scratching the oven bake at 150C tho,... any literature around to help convince someone?,

 

yeah i should see original OP above huh? :) 

ok maybe half baked :P and half dehyrator next time round /fall for a comparison if that's even achievable what with such a variable sounding species- level wise..

 

yeah by skins ... what's meant is skin and flesh beneath skin (or as close as could get of red stained-ness before the pure white flesh)

the idea was to get the strongest bits... and also the white stuff is less fun to smoakl..

pics tell more than my description as far as 'skins' go so figured I'd post them

no flash2017-03-04 17.45.55.jpg

flash2017-03-04 17.46.09.jpg2017-03-04 17.46.21.jpg2017-03-04 17.46.34.jpg2017-03-04 17.47.28.jpg2017-03-04 17.47.40.jpg

 

 

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
to add shading to the drawing
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unlike psillie friends..., which studying revealed , apparently max out at 45C before breakdown...

Shit... so I've been killing some of the psilliness dehydrating @ 70c? fk sake...

The difference in drying time from 40c to 70c is nearly twice as long. Maybe if i put some 1kg desiccant bags on the unused shelves inside the dehydrator as well as full fungi shelves with the heat on 40c I might get a slightly speedier dry, and retain some goodness. I've never noticed a reduction in the speedier dried speciments, but I haven't done enough subjective testing, drying time is just wayyy shittier on the lower temp.

 

Nice instant coffee thunder :drool2:

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Shit... so I've been killing some of the psilliness dehydrating @ 70c? fk sake...

The difference in drying time from 40c to 70c is nearly twice as long. Maybe if i put some 1kg desiccant bags on the unused shelves inside the dehydrator as well as full fungi shelves with the heat on 40c I might get a slightly speedier dry, and retain some goodness. I've never noticed a reduction in the speedier dried speciments, but I haven't done enough subjective testing, drying time is just wayyy shittier on the lower temp.

 

Nice instant coffee thunder :drool2:

 

Supposedly it's the airflow that is really important with drying things. A fan box followed by a dessicant chamber can get things good and dry without any heat.

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I make use of a frost free refrigerator for drying. I leave whichever edible species I have in there on a rack or on paper towels and it takes a few days but they get cracker dry. The low temperature keeps all the nutrition in there.

Sorry to go slightly off topic but it seems drying was being discussed.

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Interesting, to put fresh material in a freezer would blow it out tho, doesn't it Glaukus?

Whether or not its frost free, the act of "freezing" the material that still has a water content blows the cell walls out I think I remember reading? Do you put them in after they are semi dry to finish them off?

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No, not in the freezer, just in the fridge part. Trust me, works a treat.

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Shit... frost free 'refrigerator', now that makes a little more sense :P

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Shit... so I've been killing some of the psilliness dehydrating @ 70c? fk sake...

 

Nice instant coffee thunder :drool2:

 

 the act of "freezing" the material that still has a water content blows the cell walls out I think I remember reading?

I dnno mate, I just err on the safe side of caution :3 ,  obviously a bit too much on the fly but er..., those 'trout' are wiley x]

 

*brews, serves (-_)o * 

 

I think you may be referring to the act of "lysing" which is like; freeze then thaw then freeze then thaw (maybe more times too?) prior to a herbal extraction ?

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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^ Well that's one way freezing can benefit. I wasn't actually referring to lysing.

I was looking at freezing from a negative point actually, e.g. a fishes white flesh after u freeze it gets blown out reducing quality and freshness. Thats where I was coming from regarding my surprise that Glaukus actually freezes.

But I misread, he was saying he uses a refrigerator not freezer.

 

But now you mention this 'lysing' I actually read something a mate wrote about a new tek involving freezing, blending, then boiling with pectin (pectinaise?) - sposed to be a game changer regarding herbal extraction.

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[sagi drunk mone on]

 

maybe if you cant dry up stuff you cant really handle mushrooms and especially this mushroom :P 

 

when the crumbled dried material boils for 5+ min for the tea, it has pretty high temps  ...I dont know if its the  "160"  C  that some dude over the net said...

 

I have met some ex junkies that used travel and camp, along to a couple regions afar , and they ate it raw - and lol the mushroom is actually much closer to our region to the travel they did to go to fetch it ,anyways  it was a yearly thing for these dudes, and when I told him about cooking and all, and he seemed unconvinced and convinient with the way they were eating them 

 

TEA TIP: whatever actives remain in the mushrooms, might need to eat the mushrooms along with the tea, yep .. if the pieces have taste they are still active - if they are tasteless all the stuff has gone to the tea, so maybe you can skip them 

 

I have written a lot in in past about this this in other forums... 

 

there is no easy way in through a "correct" preparation, although a correct preparation of the material is better advised

 

one of the thing I would like to do before I die, is to have meal with chicken and muscaria, enjoy the taste of it, and then trip off it ... its pretty difficult to dose this way and this is totally disadvised

 

 I gave you a relative dosage guide 

what else do you want, you ungrateful bastards? 

 

oh you dont know how to dehydrate shit.. :P

 

yeah, come to this thread to learn :) 

 

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I gave you a relative dosage guide 

what else do you want, you ungrateful bastards? 

 

oh you dont know how to dehydrate shit.. :P

Sagi you Malaka,

We went way off topic talking bout psillys and dehydrating, sorry. We were actually discussing dehydrating different fungi at 40c vs 70c in terms of loss of nutrition.

Then dessicant & refrigerator methods were suggested. Lysing too - but thats plant not fungi material from what I understand.

 

While we're back on track regarding dosage, I've been wondering can you take this tea 'Greek Style', with an oral syringe and soft tip?:bootyshake:

 

Your dosage guide is a helpful resource for curious travellers (in legal countries) who may be interested in the Fly Agaric. We can consider this mushroom now, much apppreciated.

Edited by Skellum
commas n' shit
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Skellum I see you are familiar with the most important word in greek vocabulary. 

 

no problem - drying is an important part of the process ..

 

an important note to end the 160 C arguement: If you bake the mushroom, liquids come out and burn on the tray/oven  - you dont want this to hapen and you dont want to loose this liquid.. and also all reports seem to show that slow drying a couple degrees above the temp you would dry normal edibles is the way to dry to prepare the material for tea...

 

the right temp is when the mushroom liquid doesnt pour out of the material , but merely comes out then dries ON the mushroom. you dont want lots of the liquid oozing of them , just a couple drops ... actually you dont want any liquid oozing out, but it can be unavoidable, so a bit of liquid can be lost drying on the try - it happens most at the first hour, and they need better attendance at this first stage of drying... 

 

you are actually trying to first dry the surface of them so that the rest of the liquids are closed inside and dried slowly .. plus then dont stick to the tray while drying... not unlike you would do with edible mushrooms... 

 

 

 

listen to the malakas :P

Edited by sagiXsagi
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