Flat earth debate

[waterboy 2.0]

I ain't t stopping you in believing in rituals... But I am not going to see this place used as a platform.

 

Particularly when you twisted the topic (again) to your agenda.

 

Lol.. You gotta know how it works for it to work nowYou are good on the spin mate.

 

Put the evidence up, not twisted stuff.

Your attempt to make it sound like the WHO supports it... typical of those making a dollar out of it.

 

Evidence..... It's why it failed

 

Edit - I am also known to pitbull Antivaxx fallacies... You may be able to pigeon hole me now

 

That's also bullshit that there are "homeopathic vaccines".... There is no immunology at play with homeopathic preparations...the basis of vaccination as a major health breakthrough. And re Cuba

https://apgaylard.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/much-ado-about-nothing/

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by waterboy 2.0

[Northerner]

Homeopathy has been shown as effective as a placebo in every double blind independent study. 

[paradox]

27 minutes ago, waterboy 2.0 said:

 

 

Lol.. You gotta know how it works for it to work nowYou are good on the spin mate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah bro, I think they are saying you have to NOT know how it DOESN'T work.. As long as they don't know that it doesn't work then it works for some small percentage of people..

 

ie what northerner just said..

[waterboy 2.0]

Lol... I was waiting for that

[MeanGreen]

Let's just put it like this, for a substance to have any effect you need at least a molecule of that substance, right?

 

Homeopathy dilutes compounds down to an active dose which not only you cannot detect with the most advanced analytical equipment, but often comes down to less than the weight of one atom (!)

 

Add to this the fact that Boiron has an almost complete worldwide monopoly on those little sugar balls they call pills, and you'll realize the ones doing lobbying are not the "anti homeopathy" but actually quite the contrary.

 

Up until recently homeopathy was reimbursed here in France, and the media pushed it hard, making beaucoup bucks to fucking Boiron labs. Fucking scam.

 

It's the only medicine which doesn't need to prove its effectiveness and safety before being put on the market.

And when you do a study to show the effectiveness of something but it doesn't succeed, you proved its ineffectiveness.

 

How can anyone in their right mind and with a basic understanding of science believe that diluting pus, feces, blood, lead or arsenic down to the weight of an atom will heal anything is beyond me...

 

Even without that, wanting to trust 16th century pseudo science is nuts, just compare the longevity back then with now.

[Northerner]

2000 years ago people lived to a similar age as us... If they survived the first 18 years, which had a shocking mortality rate. 

 

Great genes built our species.

[MeanGreen]

Well life expectancy is an average, if most died before 18 you can't really say people used to live as long as we do.

There probably always was some people who lived to be 90+ years old, sure, but they've never been as numerous as nowadays.

 

[Northerner]

There's lies and lies, and statistics.

 

Interesting to think about though.

[freakazoid]

On 06/02/2018 at 8:58 PM, Northerner said:

2000 years ago people lived to a similar age as us... If they survived the first 18 years, which had a shocking mortality rate. 

 

Great genes built our species.

great genes but also maybe war

 

so various forms of Darwinism

Edited February 8, 2018 by freakazoid
Spelling

[waterboy 2.0]

 

And no the 3rd of February didn't have lift off due to a "technical" issue

 

Further lols

 

https://noizetv.vhx.tv/the-last-great-daredevil/season:1/videos/delay-launch-sequence-05

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by waterboy 2.0
FEBRUARY

[Siggor]

Should petition for this dude to fly up in one of Elon musks rockets. You know they will work and go further than his own junk parts rocket. 

[ThunderIdeal]

I dont think there are any rockets in america, definitely none of spacex's, which are considered safe/reliable enough for human payloads.  Astronauts have been buying tickets up from Russia for some time now.

 

That Tesla launch was some good promo huh?!  Elon is a great showman if nothing else.

[Siggor]

What launch was that?

 

The secret payload that was lost?

Edited February 8, 2018 by Siggor

[ThunderIdeal]

The falcon heavy test launch that had a tesla car as the payload, which was put in an elliptical orbit approx from earth to the asteroid belt.  Great promo for tesla, i mean, musk is a bit of a conman if you ask me but he DOES build cars and rockets and talks a good game.  Also the launch was fairly successful, both secondary boosters landed, main one missed the boat and went in the pond at 300mph.  

 

Falcon heavy is the rocket intended to to enable manned mars missions.

Edited February 8, 2018 by ThunderIdeal

[ThunderIdeal]

The secret zuma payload?

 

Haha i wonder so much about that.  Was it lost or fake lost?  And wtf kind of doomsday weapon it might have been?

 

The launch by spacex was considered a total success (no hit to their reputation) yet the payload allegedly failed to disconnect from the final stage and was therefore unable to manoeuvre and is "presumed to have fallen to earth over the indian ocean"

 

Interestingly, amateur astronomers went looking for it and found a signal from a nasa satellite thought to be dead years ago.  Nasa is now trying to communicate with the satellite to see if they can bring it back online.  I forget what its mission was.

[Siggor]

Yeah he conned SA out of money for his weak ass battery haha, I don't know what makes him a conman? I know he talks a good game but shows that he can back it up so far

 

That was interesting about the astronomers finding the lost satellite, I doubt they lost it in the first place sure they would've been tracking the signal all those years, I mean if amateur astronomers can find with with sub par technology. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Siggor

[freakazoid]

5 hours ago, waterboy 2.0 said:

 

And no the 3rd of February didn't have lift off due to a "technical" issue

 

Further lols

 

https://noizetv.vhx.tv/the-last-great-daredevil/season:1/videos/delay-launch-sequence-05

 

 

 

Ah Yes, for a little while there I had a growing feeling that “Mad” Mike had done took the crowdfund money and gone adissapearing on us. 

 

And I think, in the long run, I’ll probably wish that that would have been his best course of action.

 

time for some popcorn.

[ThunderIdeal]

4 hours ago, Siggor said:

Yeah he conned SA out of money for his weak ass battery haha, I don't know what makes him a conman? I know he talks a good game but shows that he can back it up so far

 

That was interesting about the astronomers finding the lost satellite, I doubt they lost it in the first place sure they would've been tracking the signal all those years, I mean if amateur astronomers can find with with sub par technology. 

 

 

 

No.  They lost its signal 2005 and a zuma hunter somehow was the one to find it broadcasting telemetry after the Zuma fail.  Here is a newer story

 

https://www.space.com/39611-lost-nasa-satellite-working-again.html

 

And its mission is dear to my interests.

 

Is musk a conman?  thats probably too strong.  As i said, he at least produces something of value and that is respectable.  His business models are shonky but i dont have the facts at hand or the desire to get into it, except to say that Tesla gets an environmental subsidy which the government plucks from the pocket of auto manufacturers who do not sell electric vehicles, their factory cant produce nearly as many vehicles as they forecast and spacex seems to get preferential access to government contracts.  I think his shareholders are being taken for a ride but we'll see. 

 

Ive read articles about how many times hes been knocked down (a lot) but he always gets back up; he has grit.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by ThunderIdeal

[ThunderIdeal]

Further, south aussies may want to investigate his free solar panel scheme.

 

http://ourenergyplan.sa.gov.au/virtual-power-plant

 

Read the fine print

[DualWieldRake]

9 hours ago, Siggor said:

Yeah he conned SA out of money for his weak ass battery haha, I don't know what makes him a conman? I know he talks a good game but shows that he can back it up so far

 

That was interesting about the astronomers finding the lost satellite, I doubt they lost it in the first place sure they would've been tracking the signal all those years, I mean if amateur astronomers can find with with sub par technology. 

 

 

 

One thing that makes him a conman is this pretending they are going to space.

Nobody is going to space

Edited February 8, 2018 by DualWieldRake

[Siggor]

3 hours ago, DualWieldRake said:

 

One thing that makes him a conman is this pretending they are going to space.

Nobody is going to space

How do you know if you haven't taken the rocket ride yourself?

[Northerner]

Sign me up! Even if I have to chill in space for 4 years or something to get there I would love to go to another habitable planet.

 

I was just thinking about this yesterday.

[ThunderIdeal]

Habitable planet

Mars

Lol!

 

Mate, mars is a pile of crap.

[Northerner]

Mars isn't a habitable planet, any more than the moon is. hahaha.

 

I mean like interstellar, next goldilocks planet from earth type voyage.

 

I know, I'm a dreamer...

[curaezipirid]

On ‎6‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 3:55 PM, waterboy 2.0 said:

I ain't t stopping you in believing in rituals... But I am not going to see this place used as a platform.

 

Particularly when you twisted the topic (again) to your agenda.

 

Lol.. You gotta know how it works for it to work nowYou are good on the spin mate.

 

Put the evidence up, not twisted stuff.

Your attempt to make it sound like the WHO supports it... typical of those making a dollar out of it.

 

Evidence..... It's why it failed

 

Edit - I am also known to pitbull Antivaxx fallacies... You may be able to pigeon hole me now

 

That's also bullshit that there are "homeopathic vaccines".... There is no immunology at play with homeopathic preparations...the basis of vaccination as a major health breakthrough. And re Cuba

https://apgaylard.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/much-ado-about-nothing/

 

 

 

To waterboy, in particular here (no need bother boring yourselves with reading all this if the discourse is irrelevant to you),

 

1. My point was that homeopathy's limited (approx. 50%) efficacy is in no way related to any rituals, which I noted by stating it is not related to what we believe, (since I'd reckon most rituals are about reinforcing specific belief patterns).

2. If you want me out of SAB because I am a witness of the efficacy of homeopathy, your wish is granted, (I guess since SAB need be oriented into what harmonizes with police surveillance and police happen to find themselves distrustful of homeopaths, often for good reason I gather), and if you just want to ban me from ever mentioning any positive belief in homeopathy, then I will likely retire once again from using SAB.

3. I don't have an agenda of promoting homeopathy in particular, just had an offer open to correct misinformation if anybody wants.

4. You are wrong, we do not need know how it works for it to work, and I will nevertheless take it from you, that being "good on spin" might be a compliment coming from you since you believe in the need for knowing everything about anything for anything to be real, since I guess that means you think anybody "good on spin" could spin anything into becoming real.

5. The film "Just One Drop" had a lot of evidence in it, specifically related to how the Australian government report had at first made a quite good assessment of existing scientific research, but then changed the report changing its standards specifically so as to eliminate need to consider the most of the research, (over a hundred articles reduced to under ten: and that list of over a hundred is probably the set of references appropriate here)and other than that, there are a significant number of online sources of good scientific evidence, which many folks find hard to grapple with just on the base of ultra high dilutions being effective, and I can't be bothered sourcing right now to try to convince somebody who was self-proclaiming their desire to stay unconvinced, however, for example the website "hpathy" dot com.

6. I didn't say WHO support homeopathy, just that they cite it is the most practiced system of medicine in the world, AND, I don't ever, and never tried, to earn an income via homeopathy myself, (any money I got or could get from health care involved more thorough health care than only homeopathy).

7. The evidence of why homeopathy fails, tends not to be supported by the community of professional homeopaths, and my own beliefs about why homeopathy fails in half the population, tend to be disliked by the kinds of people who homeopathy fails for, which I expect those who disagree with homeopathy to be among, so why would I bother describing why I think it can't work for them, (ie it can't work by looking at the imagery any remedy is likely to cause briefly inside the mind, but works better by un-seeing and disbelieving what might be visible to anybody seeking knowledge, since all they'd be looking at will be through the rose-coloured-glasses of their own diseases exaggerated).

8. I don't care what you think of anti-vaccination campaigns, all I cared about is that my choice to avoid vaccination will not be deemed ignorant, since I researched the matter extensively, and initially made a choice simply to delay vaccination until I could learn more, since I know some nation states do not begin vaccination schedules until infants are over one year old, and their statistics are better, (whereas USA statistics are worst, and they begin a heavier vaccine schedule upon younger babies).

9. I have no intention of pigeon-holing you waterboy, and thankyou if you will also avoid pigeonholing me.

10. The science of "immunology" was clearly missing out on a lot of potential work, by failing to consider what evidence they could be researching through homeopathy; for example more longitudinal studies, since single dose homeopathic medicines are known to continue working for many days and weeks, and it is normal that the more successful changes in symptoms accorded, take longer than expected.  Immunologists have neither been very good with following through from their own research, for example in immuno-genetics, work done about Major Histo-compatibility Complex molecules, could by now be extensively enabling of us all to increase our immunity, but was ignored.  And as for the situation in Cuba, since you linked the anti-homeopathy point of view, here is the equitably pro-homeopathy link https://hpathy.com/homeopathy-papers/homoeopathic-immunisation-against-leptospirosis-in-cuba/

11. About homeoprophylaxis in general, I don't support the practice, and agreed with the court ruling against one example of homeoprophylaxis here in Australia, and if anybody happens to look in the link, it cites a "debate between Professor Vithoulkas and Dr Golden", both of whom I have studied under, and in the case of homeoprophylaxis I most certainly side aligned with Vithoulkas, even though I find him lacking in another aspect of his theoretical approach.

12. Homeopathy theory is long to describe, and a dense read, which needs a clear mind to grapple with as a description of evidence, which need not be bogged down by speculation about causation, (and a whole variety of sub-theories exist among homeopaths about why it works, but no single theory ever gained prevalence), and in general if anybody wanted to so much as try to comprehend, there is a neat description in the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration website glossary, and next port of call for finding meaning need by the original text by Samuel Hahnemann called the Organon of Medicine, ...a book dating back two hundred odd years.

13.  Yes, homeopaths are all advocating for a system of medicine which pre-dates most of modern western medical science, and hence my belief that we ought not rule out what therapies are available through Western medical science, but need make all appropriate referrals.

14.  It's the funniest coincidence of all, that one among many theories about how homeopathy works, is that the diluted remedies somehow can alter the production and/or metabolism of endogenous DMT, and thus psychedelic science and homeopaths might need to get together one day, (as in the case of the UDV), however, I have no great expectations of the sciences funded by the West, and merely post all this so as to communicate to waterboy it is better not to make any further presumptions about me.