sagiXsagi Posted December 21, 2016 The inspiration came from some discussion on how FB is taking people and traffic off the forum, and for some reason I thought of proposing a quite ambitious , I would say , project , that would require a separate forum, with a sub forum for each topic - plant. Excluding the Trichocereus, and as we are waiting to receive EG's book, I propose we create groups that will compile material from the forum and elsewhere and compile material and write monograph's about plants, and when and if we complete it and we feel its good, we collectively publish it into printed matter.. We could even do these are stand allone , small monographs.... but only if its worth it, that is , that we would have to say something new, like f.e. compile all descriptions / make an description based on 10 others and experience of a collective that have grown the bugger from known strains, to give an example.. and yeah if this starts to get awesome, why not publish this in a book, if we, the plant growers arent the back-warded strange types that still love books, than who are? but hey, the monographs are the point... fuck the books... the research and compilation through collaboration is the new approach here... CAN WE MAKE IT? I am quoting from the other thread : Why not trying to start an army of contributors which will complie info from threads for certain topics of interest in the form of monogrpah, f.e. Psychotria sp. = one single project resulting in a public megathread - monograph, which is going to be pinned. Of fuck the pin, this should be done in a separate forum names SAB collective projects.. I know that "encyclopedia of psychoactive plants" has been done before, but, hey, we can make it better! We should make collective monographs , then publish them as books through crowd funding. and of course, our compilation of monogrpaphs will not focus on ethnobotany only (has been done) but rather on botany and cultivation, among others... but hey, I am jsut saying, we could discuss anything... who said most of the work is done??? I disagree, but if this is true, then lets compile it and publish it in collection of monographs written collectively and sponsored by SAB. WIth all the references , of course... I know it sounds somewhat kiddish , especially in such a thread, but hear out my drunken vision. NEW FORUM we make list of plants that we are to contribute to , so as to make an even better monograph and plants of little knowledge, for which we essentially attempt to write a monograph.. heck if we think this is fun, we can even create common plants like chilli - well they are psychoactive - or chives monographs. so, we make groups that compile material from the forum through the search engine and try to edit them and compile the best of it, essentially it should be a project of many perspectives, and many gardening collectives. A great goe that could be archieved , it would be to collectivele write a gardening book from many perspectives, many gardening styles and climates. monographs would f.e. both the notes of both a person that grows P.vridis in the tropics and the persons that grows it in the dry& warm mediterranean and the persons that grows it at zone 7. One knowledgable (or willing) person should be in charge of each monograph and everyone should be called and welcome to contribute in each monograph, even old , non active members could perhaps be called to contribute.. the trichocereus monograph has of course been written, heh, but eg could try to write an abstract or we should attempt to write an abstract and review after we read EG's book.. I dont know why I thought of this. Maybe because I am quite plant passionate these days. Maybe we do a nice retrospecive work, "what do we know up to know" ... ======== I dont know what you think... This is a great project to prove that SAB not only is not dying, but that it's still shining, as the first - one of the first - to sprout, it will be one of the last last to die. The forum structure is the best form to discuss, I will never change this for anything, FUCK FACEBOOK. I think that a moderator whould be assigned to each monograph, to assure any arguements would be resolved to a third person.. a separate BASIC forum should exist for the discussion of which plants / topics are worth a monograph attempt - meaning that we have lots of data, etc. maybe this should be even public of course the running project of each monograph should be in a private forum until an even temporary final form is archieved, and then it would be published in the main forums, to be subjected to comments and criticism. The final product, that is the sum of the monographs that have been completed, can be be funded by the research - team to become a DIY, collectively produced book, or we also could also crowd fund it as well.... What do you think? 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Change Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) who said most of the work is done??? I disagree, but if this is true, then lets compile it and publish it in collection of monographs written collectively and sponsored by SAB. WIth all the references , of course... I totally agree with what you're suggesting. Statements like "all the work is done" are ridiculous and apathetic. It totally fine to state your personal contribution are complete and were finished years ago, but this statement doesn't reflect my personal position and only serves to make the next generation of ethnoheads lazy. If all the work is done, why hold EGA every year? If all the work was truely done, years ago, than EGA would just be repeating the same things year in year out, Is this what happens there? Lucky the old timer ethnoheads didnt get into EGs ear and tell him all the work is done, if they did he may not have written his book. However publishing a book is a mammoth task and im uncertain how realistic it would be. Possibly this idea would be better suited to an annual SAB magazine kinda similar to what the Nexus are doing. It could be sold to members for a small fee with profits going towards running costs of the forum. Or just spread around for free to attract people who are interested to join the forum. If a few members here are interested in tissue culturing cactus and want to put together a little think tank / collaborative project i would be happy to contribute and after a year of solid experiments we could publish an article documenting our work in said magazine / Book / or even just collaborative thread to start with. Within 12-24 months ill be in a better position to start genetic analysis projects which id also love to do in collaboration with members here. What do you think? I think its a fantastic idea Edited December 22, 2016 by Change 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagiXsagi Posted December 23, 2016 I hear ya, change, but dont be so harsh on those grumpy old-men, some of them we might be even quoting when we will doing our project , and some of them I would personally like to summon to reappear and contribute in such a collective call to make a COLLECTION/COMPILATION/ABSTRACT of all the knowledge , but it should be the work, I stretch that , that needs to experiment and be pioneer at that, in collectitely documenting the collecitve attempt. I am proposing some topics for monographs maybe change should be in charge of the "DNA analysis project" . If you understand these things, maybe you might want to answer a fuckload of questions I have on some papers I am reading and perhaps not all monographs should be 'published' (in my mind these monographs are aimed more at the botanical description , ecology, and growing notes, rather than the more researched ethonobotanical complications , which would be also more complicated legally. Mandrake, especially the growing notes of them which are not always easy to figure out when searching the net. I am willing to share my 3+ year mandragora autumnalis experience with the project as a sign of good will and collective spirit . along with seeds for anyone willing to contribute to the project, to try around. one of the challenges, how to make a year old to survive summer - well its winter for you crazy bogans . Ephedra, my new passion, lets, call it that, as I very recently realised that there are several, 4, species of ephedra in greece, two of which I already found(some say they;re the same species, that is fragilis = campylopoda=foemineea) , or should I say they found me? any ways...There's lots of work to be done , but there are lots of data out there, which is quite cool. I can offer fresh seed packs of local ephedra to people who are wiliing to contribute, and are interested in the genus. apart from these, which are 2 of my focuses... there are lots of topics like genus-wise, they would be ehm... you tell me from psychotria to an ylesser know ethno. but I dont know whatever we even dare to attempt to do , would be to build a small thingy on others work. we should always consider others work in whatever we do, like Raetsch encyclopedia we have to feel that we have to add up or to contribute something new . new trains of thought count hats why I am talking about a workgroup of people that attempt to create a international ethnobotanical growing guide , compiling growing info from a variety of places, both hemispheres, focused on growing stuff, which is legal, and healthy in any case , and not really concerned on what exectly is in what we grow... there are other subjects people might be interested into, like * grafting cacti * acacia growing * climbers - vines you know , compilation of things 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagiXsagi Posted December 23, 2016 we silence ?? or talk about it a proper and botanical way? I say we give it a try 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Change Posted December 23, 2016 Just to be clear, im not in a position where i can be in charge of a project like this at the moment. Im currently volunteering in a plant research lab that is performing genetic analysis of arabidopsis mutants. If all goes to plan ill be employed there within 12-24 months time When that happens this would be a project i could run myself, but at this point in time im still learning. There are members here who have been working as researcher in plant labs for longer than ive been studying Hopefully they will be keen to take up the leadership roles. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anodyne Posted December 23, 2016 we make list of plants that we are to contribute to , so as to make an even better monograph and plants of little knowledge, for which we essentially attempt to write a monograph.. heck if we think this is fun, we can even create common plants like chilli - well they are psychoactive - or chives monographs. so, we make groups that compile material from the forum through the search engine and try to edit them and compile the best of it, essentially it should be a project of many perspectives, and many gardening collectives. A great goe that could be archieved , it would be to collectivele write a gardening book from many perspectives, many gardening styles and climates. monographs would f.e. both the notes of both a person that grows P.vridis in the tropics and the persons that grows it in the dry& warm mediterranean and the persons that grows it at zone 7. What do you think? This might be better suited to a wiki, rather than a book? Easier to update & distribute, no? I mean for the more well-established knowledge we have here. For new research, then maybe something else. But for the bulk of stuff you're talking about, I am just thinking that putting a book together is a huge goddamn project - to write everything, compile it, edit it, get it printed and then get it out to people... it'd take years. Lots of them. And money. Whereas a wiki can be done piecemeal, and then at least the part on that plant can be 'published' so people can read it & improved on it, and then someone writes another section, and so forth. Of course, you'd need some really good mods/editors (or whatever they're called) because we talk a ton of shit around here and a wiki needs a much more concise writing style. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted December 23, 2016 Good idea Anodyne. It would be a lot easier to update and make corrections etc that way. Teo could kick it all off with the mother of all lists. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagiXsagi Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Sure, a wiki is a cool idea. We could publish our final product in a wiki form. There's lot to talk about how , in what format we gather, compile, evaluate and proccess data , and how mods will control the proceedure. I think it could be done in a forum format as well - a subforum for each topic / monograph. Thus we keep it in SAB - if its external it might be less easy for a SABer to decide to contribute. Then wiki-fy the projects that are in an anvanced stage / projects with lots of material and threads. but I think all this is secondary - first we should validate we have a team of some people willing to work on the project. I dont think we need too many people, I think passion is the first thing we should have. And dont think of the book as an encyclopedia, think each monogrpah as a separete "book" - electronic or otherwise. Each monograph should not be in the same style as the other - there will be a different supervisor/chief for each one - I think one of the goals would be to find a way to externalise the collective point of view. One monograph might be more scientific in style from another, and the style would be according to the people working it... In my mind, the first steps on that , after finding 5-6 people to take this seriously, would be a creating new forum and two threads to start: one thread discussing the monographs / topics to take up, and one thread discussing how we work each monograph, that is in what structure/pattern/ways we could/should work.. Cheers " Teo could kick it all off with the mother of all lists. " LOL now that's a smell from the golden era Edited December 23, 2016 by sagiXsagi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted December 25, 2016 There have been a few starts at this sort of thing over the years, both here and elsewhere. I am all for it and would love to support it via the forums or via a wiki - or both. There are already similar sites that try to create such monographs, but they are no longer maintained well or just don't have the level of content we have here. This forum software has all sorts of features that might be useful for this so I will have a look at the options and see what can be enabled. Keeping it all under the same log ins really helps with such projects. A subforum already exists [currently hidden] from a previous attempt, so I am happy to reactivate. Would you want everyone able to post in it or should it be specifically for a working group? I am happy to create a special members group, but it would rely on me moving people to that group. Alternatively it could possibly be split into a working group AND any casual contributions being posted after mod approval. We'd also need a special mod or three for this subforum. LOL re Teo. I am happy to say that all the shenanigans we put up with were worth it in the end (I never lost faith in that, but just could not justify him sticking around any longer at the time). Some people just need a bit of patience early in life until they funnel their passion into something constructive and productive (note: he does a lot more than make lists these days ) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagiXsagi Posted December 25, 2016 (edited) some stuff must be discussed between people who are willing to take a vital part in this. in a PRIVATE forum. if we start it, soon we will open up and invite people, but I think we should first think and decide who we are and what do we wanna do and how. Indeed I imply a level of commitment to the project. I say we first need a closed group of determined contributors. Speak up. I am already doing mandragora and ephedra work/research. But I am also willing to contribute in other topics, compiling data from the forum and evaluating them, etc. So you can count me in. Torsten, I propose you open up the forum as work group first. New contributors can be picked in several ways, this very thread being the first. All the first members should be equal and free to form this the way we willl, so maybe let us gather first, and you be the moderator at first. Sure a public forum could later, soon, provide few bits from the research and and calling notes on how we are looking for people willing to contribute in X type of work. =================== my EPHEDRA open-up - looking for my moderators - reviewers I am preparing a printed compilation of ephedra raw data, from botany books, descriptions, to scientific papers and all, I will print it in several copies, this is how serious I am taking it . Some I will send/give to local collaborators, and 2 of them I am willing to send to the people who will review/moderate the ephedra topic, or even collaborate with me in the research. I just started to do this, there's plenty of space. well, my botany/description research focuses in the mediterranean species so far, but american, asian, and southamerican contributors are sure wanted. Sorry to exclude oz as no epehedras are endemic there - which is propably because the continent split up early, but I wouldnt not bet on this.. lots of paleontologic and DNA shit around the ephedras and gnetales =============== very happy you are positively inclined for this Torsten. Gimme 4-5 (10 and 14 are even better though) passionate comrades and I guarantee (lest something really awful happens to me) that this will not be only a start. peace and grow on Edited December 26, 2016 by sagiXsagi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagiXsagi Posted March 15, 2017 So it's started. PM me for moar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
