Alchemica Posted July 16, 2016 So I'm through my alcohol withdrawals and they were milder than I was expecting but cravings have somewhat returned. I'll productively use my cravings to research what could be done to minimise the harms of ethanol use for others. Not planning on returning to the drink, just pondering things... Hepatoprotection [review]: N-acetylcysteine seems to be one preferred option. Commercial products containing it and a spectrum of other beneficial agents are available. S-adenosylmethionine [1] Silymarin may be beneficial [2] Neuroprotection: butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT) seems to be the most beneficial and readily available/generally recognised as safe [3] TLR4 antagonists [4] Dihydromyricetin [5] For reducing alcohol intake: Dihydromyricetin [5] Kudzu [6] If you're drinking: Thiamine (100mg minimum/day), folate and chelated magnesium are suggested, in combination with a B-complex and multivitamin + antioxidants. For a good review: Quote Anti-oxidants: Our body relies on the tireless work of our anti-oxidant defense system, which must be replenished by eating plenty of fruits and vegetables every day for a regular supply of nutrients such as Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and Selenium. Vitamin C is often depleted in those who consume alcohol on a regular basis.4 Vitamin E is the most important anti-oxidant for protecting our cell membranes, especially those of the brain and liver, which are often damaged with excessive alcohol use.5 Selenium is also often low in those who consume alcohol regularly, which is an important consideration as selenium deficiency may be correlated to increased rates of liver cancer (which is a risk factor related to alcoholism).6, 7 Be sure to consume as many deep colored fruits and vegetables you can throughout the day, in addition to raw nuts and seeds. Zinc: This mineral is very important for many functions in the body including immune function, vision, taste, hearing, wound healing and hormone regulation. In a study done on rats, those fed a zinc deficient diet were more likely to choose to consume alcohol than those who weren’t.8 Those who drink alcohol in excess have been shown to be deficient in zinc.9 In addition, those who consume a lot of alcohol may be at risk for intestinal “leaky gut” syndrome due to the zinc deficiency which results from it.10 Good sources of zinc include seafood, meat, whole grains, legumes, egg yolks, nuts, and seeds. B Vitamins: Many of the B Vitamins (B1, B3, B6, Folate, B12) tend to be depleted in those who consume alcohol regularly, causing some potentially serious negative consequences. Consider speaking to your naturopath about taking a high quality B complex to prevent some of those negative effects. Gamma-linolenic acid: This is an important fatty acid whose production is limited in those who tend to drink a lot. Consuming gamma-linolenic acid may help to limit withdrawal from alcohol, as the body of someone who consumes alcohol on a regular basis may lose the ability to produce it in sufficient supply. It is readily available in evening primrose oil, borage seed oil, and black currant seed oil.11 List anything else you are aware of. Ideally I want to see a decent alcohol replacement like pagoclone become available, as David Nutt was suggesting. What I'm keen to know is if one was to get creative and create an alcoholic beverage that provided a good, long-lasting buzz, what would you include? Ideally something that you didn't have to keep drinking to get drunkenly intoxicated but the effects lasted nicely. More looking at the anxiolytic and prosocial effects. What herbs would you infuse? Snu's book has a few suggestions but I'm wondering what people here would try? My mix would potentially be: Ethanol, I'd probably go with a Myrrh tincture to spice it up Sceletium extract Maybe some CBD, though I'm yet to try that Possibly some lotus extract/nuciferine I could get creative with some added essential oils Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stonewolf Posted July 16, 2016 Probably goes without saying but cannabis? I have a smoke and im immediately done for the evening drink wise. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alchemica Posted July 16, 2016 Yeah I wish I could smoke it, it would be such a healthier choice but I just get freaked out that I've pissed myself etc. It's just plain uncomfortable, if not dysphoric and somewhat paranoia inducing. Maybe if there was some really low THC high CBD stuff around I'd partake. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayN Posted July 16, 2016 vaping is a much better option rather than smoking for lower doses - and healthier too. a magic flight launch box is a (relatively) inexpensive unit. having said that, weed is most certainly not everyone's cup of tea. speaking of tea... chamomile? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagiXsagi Posted July 16, 2016 The original pilsner beer was brewed with hyoscyamus, so you could/should NOT drink more than a couple.. Alcohol and tropane alkaloids certainly dont seem like the greatest idea, but all tropane plants have a sedative element if used right. Hyoscuamus has been used as substistute for opium, and hyoscyamine bears slightly more sedative properties than say scopolamine.. You dont need to get mandragora root for this, growing Hyoscyamus species is a very rewarding experience and seed can be easily obtained... Alcohol and tropane alkaloids indeed go well together (and create an supression of inhibition unlike what alcohol by itself does - devil plants anyone?) , but it takes a very sensible individual to keep safe... f.e. smoking is relatively safe, so maybe that's why I never ate anything tropane... Another idea I have been playing in my mind with and not tried it is making an amanita muscaria liquer.... amanitas and alcohol together again seems not such a good idea... it certainly will have a load on the liver. I have done this a lot of times in the past, but not in a single drink. silymarin seems like a good idea... Amanita by itself is a lot like alcohol actually , minus the blurring of the spirit and mind and the hangover and body load the next day ... Actually amanita mid doses is IMO is the closest thing to alcohol minusing all the sideeffects. Well I havent tried GHB alcohol and pot: most people prefer either of the two, so in most cases they are not really combined. the combination especially when lots of drinking is preceeded makes a lot of people uncomfortable, often kills the alcohol buzz/ portion of the night, and quite often causes vomiting, especially in long drinking session with no food intake.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alchemica Posted July 16, 2016 Thanks for that awesome post! I had a bit of a soft spot for GHB in my younger years, awesomely prosocial but the legality (and assumptions that your intentions were sinister) was too much to deal with. Methaqualone similarly. Neither matched MDMA but nonetheless, they were nice. I explored the tertiary alcohols 2-methyl-2-butanol and 1-ethynylcyclohexanol hoping to have something prosocial but I just ended up abusing them. To be honest, ethanol is nicer just too short lived in it's effect. Interesting about the amanitas. Hesitant with the tropane alkaloids but interesting line of thought. If only good quality kava was around. Maybe Erythrina mulungu alkaloids are worth exploring? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slocombe Posted July 17, 2016 GHB is allegedly very easy to synthesise... (must say that I've never even attempted it so I'm not sure if this is at all true). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stonewolf Posted July 17, 2016 Mulungu needs more of a critical examination in general. Closest plant based experience I've had to benzos. Dont understand why it's not more popular. I once got a quote for a bulk buy but never bothered. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagiXsagi Posted July 18, 2016 I remember reading here from some old member how mid doses of both amanitas and certain cacti juice remebled the MDMA experience... I wouldnt know, just mentioning... for what its worth, If I were cutting or off alcohol , amanitas would be my thought of a substitute.. its difficult to control and dose, but its worth the experimentations, beware of large doses, they're unlike alcohol inebriation and become dissociative in nature. PM me for amanita details if ya want 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bardo Posted July 19, 2016 1. water 2. rest, reflection and meditation 3. exercise and fresh air 4. good food and nutrition 5. self care and to learn to love and/or accept who you are not what you do, remember your heart speaks to you as well as the mind, try make time and have fun getting to know yourself, full of mystery and awaiting discovery that only you can journey and know, embrace your senses and view life how you like or choose, all I can say is this is happening and in a 120 years its likely everyone here now will be dead so try not to worry what others think to much : ) Its what we do that radiates through time and generations, the impressions we may have or give to others will be gone soon. Share, care, and be willing to brake boundaries : ) They are effective things to minimize alcohol harm and reduce intake, other positive effects should ensue : ) 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-RC- Posted July 19, 2016 Second the suggestions of cannabis. Strain selection of course will be a big factor, and ensuring an indica-dominant CBD rich strain for the anti-psychotic properties. Too much THC wouldn't be a goer me thinks. CBD is also great for inflammation and pain too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagiXsagi Posted July 20, 2016 Quote indica-dominant CBD rich strain for the anti-psychotic properties nah, I think thats oversimplistic.. depends on the person and other things not only the strain. IME indica dominant strains are heavier, more sedative with more paranoid thoughts and all. Sure there are insanely strong sativas but these aren't the real deal and they're still less paranoid than strong indicas, UNLESS you have real paranoid tendencies, in which case you shouldnt smoke at all, but indica might feel better, at least to some than some super strong sativa... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MerryPrankster Posted September 9, 2016 Mirtazapine goes pretty good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entheogenic garden Posted October 24, 2016 Mirtazapine certainly helped me - but I am no substitute for a doctor. If you have a doctor you get along with, maybe have a chat? im lucky and my doctor is a bloody champ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
