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mysubtleascention

Grafting onto unrooted stock

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Seeing these motivational photos by distracted :):) a lot of questions come to mind..

How big the parts ..

When to remove the stocking../ do you keep them indoors till healed? /

When's the best season to execute ?

Do you graft on freshly made trichocereus cuttings or long time healed ones.. ?

Can it be done successfully at the end of the growing season, on freshly made trichocereus stock and let them stay the winter indoors, to set roots.. or do you make the prepared stock wait till spring time and graft at the beginning of the new growth..

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Edited by mysubtleascention
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Very interesting to an ethnojube.

I'm digging the milk crate setup with the shade cloth. Looks like I'm going to pinch this technique off you.

I need to degraft a nice sized grafted loph due to stock rot.

I purchased some trich stock off eBay for a reasonable price a few months agp, but not with the intention to degraft pups off a plant that I paid good money for. I was intending to graft some pups I purchased off a member but they are way smaller than what's on the loph I'm about to degraft.

I've seen that some members cut off the spines to push all of the goodness from the stock to the graft. Is this worth doing?

As for the pups that I won't have enough stock for, should I just keep them on propagation sand until I can get my hands on new stock?

Mysubtleascention, I hope you don't mind me adding these questions to your thread.

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I've seen that some members cut off the spines to push all of the goodness from the stock to the graft. Is this worth doing?

Cutting those upper parts ot the stock is made for reasons, to prevent later development of the graft pushing itself away from the stock and resulting in self degrafting :):) .. and to avoid outer rims of the stock to push into the scion, due to dehydratation shrivelings..

Edited by mysubtleascention
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If you are in a UK winter, grafting would probably not be very successful unless you have a temperature controlled environment to keep them in. You really should graft when the stock and scion are in an active growth phase.

It doesn't make much difference if the stock has callused or not. It should callus OK while the graft is healing - around a week but two weeks to be sure.

You can take the stocking off after about 4 days if the grafted stock won't have any chance of getting bumped and dislodging the graft. I'd normally wait 5 days to a week before I'd remove the stocking or whatever you use to secure the graft.

The scion can be as small about 8 -10mm for a loph graft but 15mm is a more workable size to make it easier to align it to vascular ring on the stock (they're slippery little suckers and tend to slide around as you are trying to secure them). If you were using peres for stock they can be grafted a few days after germinating.

Edited by Sally
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I've got that part, but I'm talking about cutting notches out where all of the spines are growing out. Totally despining the stock.

I noticed that wert uses that technique and was wondering about the experience of other members. Is it beneficial to members who live in a low humidity area and will it cause problems to those up in more tropical regions?

I'm also going interested in the questions you've asked.

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Max - It depends on how long the degrafts will be sitting around. If it will be months before you get your stock it wont hurt to let them root, you'll be able to keep them in better condition that way. If it will be only a few weeks just keep them dry and recut them before grafting.

I think removing the spines is more for ease of handling than for forcing growth into other parts of the plant. If you don't remove the whole areole the spines tend to grow back anyway. Having spines on them gives you something to hook the stocking onto.

If the areoles are completely dug out the spines won't re-grow and the stock can't grow pups from those points. Pups pushing up against a loph scion when it gets bigger can be a pain in the arse as you have to keep cutting them off so they don't deform the scion and take energy away from it. So it depends on your stock, some trichs throw heaps of pups after having a scion grafted to them and others throw none.

Edited by Sally
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Cheers, Sally. Your input is greatly appreciated.

The original post is about grafting to unrooted stock. That question is very intriguing because I didn't know it was possible. From my limited reading and no prior knowledge I'm led to believe that you should wait a week for every inch of the cutting to form a good callous before trying to root the stock. If you graft to an unrooted stock will that cause it to callous more quickly because the graft is sucks up the goodness and speeding up the callousing?

This callousing part has me perplexed. Please note that I have no experience prior with cactus and find the whole subject very fascinating.

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I don't think you have to wait that long for a callus to form, but I cut mine in the morning and put them in full sun - with cut facing directly at the sun for a full day after cutting them.

The UV light in sunlight disinfects the cut and helps it skin over. It's not fully callused after that but it helps to stop any infections when you bring it inside. It really takes about a month for a good callus to form. So after the graft heals you can wait a few weeks to plant it or plant it and keep it dry for a few weeks.

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Almost any loph graft I've done has been in this way.

How big the parts ..

I find 30-40 cm fat pc cuts to be optimal as in you won't necessarily do better with taller cuts but you'll most likely do worse if you go shorter.

When to remove the stocking../ do you keep them indoors till healed? /

I remove elastic bands/stocking after 3-7 days (about 4 on average). Stays indoors for ~2 weeks. Slowly goes outdoor and never under the rain.

When's the best season to execute ?

I don't know about your climate but I start in August/September.

Do you graft on freshly made trichocereus cuttings or long time healed ones.. ?

I time the cuttings/grafts so that once the stocking comes off, the plant go into pots. Lophs do an explosive growth soon after the graft's taken and while the cutting's rooting, so firstly you'd want them to be out by then and secondly if you do the graft at the end of the season you'd be dampening that first growth spurt.

First pic 29/10/12 (just after potting up), second 18/02/13, third 11/09/13 and then a few days ago

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Señor,

That first pic of the graft looks like it's melted into the stock. That is so asthetically pleasing.

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Nice healthy looking plants there Mr Jefferrson !

Some of the early grafts I did I cut the top of the stock flat like some of those and the scions pushed themselves off the stock when they started throwing pups. They could still be trimmed now while you have access.

They're going to look awesome (even more awesome) in 2 or 3 years. :drool2:

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hey man if you want to use multiple processes in this thread then my advice is looking like this.

you want to use panty hose or elastic to secure scion to stock cool. you want to use a cutting cool. you want to remove werts way of spination.

so then... I would suggest when you cut the stock remove all the lower spines to two or three inchrs up at the sametime so they callus over along with stock cut.

I keep my scions fixed with electrical tape and tissue on the scion so it doesn't stick.

and... two weeks ain't long enough for a secure callus to form in my opinion. I wait 4-6 weeks minimum then remove all the bandaging and concider planting.

best of luck but get rid of those aeroles at the base asap. removing pups at soil level is a pia!

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Señor,

Do you cut a cone shape in the scion to match shaft of the the stock or do you cut the scion flat?

Edited by Maxofoz

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Lophs I always cut flat but the harder skinned plants I first cut flat then run a blade around the edge to cut off about 2-3 mm of skin. Also something I find kind of important when cutting the stock cone shaped is that, say with a 6-ribbed pach, you should aim to do only 5 cuts along the Vs to get the ideal shape. As opposed to 6 cuts along the ribs and then more cuts here and there. This can make a fair difference on how the callus raises after a couple of weeks and whether this change in shape will be kind to the scion or not. The sharper the angle of the cuts the bigger the difference. The graft in my first pic would be the bad type of cutting.

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say with a 6-ribbed pach, you should aim to do only 5 cuts along the Vs to get the ideal shape

:rolleyes: if you have some photos of that technique .. :):)

Edited by mysubtleascention

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Seeing these motivational photos by distracted :):) a lot of questions come to mind..

How big the parts ..

When to remove the stocking../ do you keep them indoors till healed? /

When's the best season to execute ?

Do you graft on freshly made trichocereus cuttings or long time healed ones.. ?

Can it be done successfully at the end of the growing season, on freshly made trichocereus stock and let them stay the winter indoors, to set roots.. or do you make the prepared stock wait till spring time and graft at the beginning of the new growth..

Freshly growing tips will give the best strike rate. If you use logs or such the vascular core of the stock can rescind away from the graft separating the two parts that you need to fuse together.

You can probably use whatever width you want for the logs really. You can see in my photo the stock I used was neglected as fuck. The minimum length i've grafted to was about 7cm?

If the cuts are unrooted don't expect graft growth in the first year as your plant will be focusing it's energy on sending out roots to secure long-term growth.

Graft anytime the stock is actively growing. As soon as you see new growth you can graft.

I'm usually a lazy grafter, i'll graft at the end of the growing season once all my grafts pups have grown to a reasonable size. This'll also allow the graft to settle in completely so by the time the growing season has started they'll hit the ground running(unscientific observation, could be wrong)

I leave them in stockings for 4-6 days depending on how confident I am with them. I'll then leave them indoors for another week or so again until i'm confident.

If the stock is rooted don't water it until you can see new growth in the graft.

If you leave them indoors for 2 weeks or more expect etoliation, treat exposure to sun with extreme care. Ideally it's better to have them set in a 'sun room' or something similar that receives no direct sunlight and only partial filtered sunlight during the day.

Some random newbie advice

If you've done a whole bunch of grafts and all of them have taken except for one or a few you might think that you did the dormant ones wrong and want to degraft them to attempt them again. I recommend not to. In my experience more 'dormant' grafts have actually been successful than unsuccessful. Do not degraft unless you know 100% it has failed or it easily comes apart.

Nowadays when I have a loph pup i'll cut it in half and graft both the top and the bottom. I find the bottom grafts more ascetically pleasing as the pups aren't crowding themselves as much.

Have fun!

I was tempting to make a thread from the pictures but i really liked the idea of the gardinspiration thread and wanted more people to post their easy ghetto projects :D

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ok so pick one. not ideal to cut in this manner as the exposed inner tissues will dehydrate and possibly disturb the stock scion union.

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pic two. much safer way to perform a graft as the tissues wont dehydrate as much helping to keep the union aligned.

you can later after a full callus has formed around the union cut larger 45 degree cuts from the scion dow the stock as when this process occurs the stock dehydrates and you then have run off for water. its that easy. but don't rush it.

etiolation/elongation... who gives a fuck the plant will out grow this in a season.

wert 2 cents.

Edited by wert
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20160106_193725_zpss4vt1iul.jpg

these were cut from a main plant yesterday. now there just laying on the back table sheltered from the rain.

I've prepared the bottom of the stock so it won't throw pups at or below the soil surface and given clearance for weeding ect.

thrse will callus for a week or two before I even atempt grafting. after grafting I will de-spine as shown in the next pic☆ the reason for this is if the graft don't work out I've still got a plant to play with. if it works out then I will follow the treatment as exposed in the next pic☆

wert.

Edited by wert
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20151208_115219_zpsrpuqyytv.jpg

sorry first pick was in another thread here's the previous treatment im talking about if the union is successful. prolly will be dudes.

wert.

Edited by wert
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mysubtleascention does that stereo boom shaka laka or just boom shak?

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Here's one I grafted this morning, sina to pach stump that calloused for 2 weeks. 4 days with bands on then another 2-3 days in indirect light to heal a bit more. then into pots and a few hours morning sun until they start growing.

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Heres one I unbanded a few days ago and is ready for potting up

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I just reread your post msa and its best to do it during active growth. Whether it's before summer or just before winter, active growth is just that, active ;)

I'm sure after seeing your other grafts pics you'll have no problemos

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