Canadian man kills Brit in psychedelic ceremony in Peru's Amazon

[Change]

LIMA (Reuters) - A Canadian man killed a British man after the two took a hallucinogenic plant brew known as ayahuasca together at a spiritual retreat in the Peruvian Amazon, authorities said Thursday.

Witnesses told police the Canadian man, 29-year-old Joshua Andrew Freeman Stevens, killed the British man, Unais Gomes, 26, in self-defense after Gomes attacked him with a knife during an ayahuasca ceremony near the jungle city of Iquitos Wednesday night, said Normando Marques, a police chief in the region.

Ayahuasca is a combination of an Amazonian vine and dimethyltryptamine (DMT) - containing plants that give users psychedelic experiences when combined. It is not normally associated with violence.

The Canadian citizen was in police custody Thursday, Marques said.

Witnesses said Gomes tried to stab Stevens during a bad trip, according to a police source in Iquitos familiar with the case.

The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Gomes apparently used a knife from the kitchen of the alternative health center Phoenix Ayahuasca to attack Stevens. Stevens ended up killing Gomes with the same knife, stabbing him in the chest and stomach, he said.

Phoenix Ayahuasca did not immediately respond to requests for comment. Its Facebook page describes it as a safe place to "experience plant medicines and explore the true nature of the self."

Ayahuasca tourism in Peru has surged in recent years, with dozens of jungle retreats offering the traditional indigenous brew to visitors under the supervision of a guide or shaman.

Many tourists seek the drug out because of its reputation as a way to help ease depression and other mental troubles. Amazonian tribes in Peru and Brazil use ayahuasca, or yage, as an important spiritual and medicinal tool.

"It might be folkloric, spiritual or whatever else, but that doesn't mean it isn't a drug that dramatically alters your state of mind," said Marques.

In 2012, an 18-year-old American man died during an ayahuasca retreat in the jungle and the shaman leading the ceremony buried his body in an attempt to cover up the death.

(Reporting by Mitra Taj; Editing by Leslie Adler)

https://au.news.yahoo.com/viral/a/30398266/canadian-man-kills-brit-in-psychedelic-ceremony-in-perus-amazon/

[Godiam]

Fuck me, I have been on a retreat in Peru, and consumed Aya many times in both Peru and Columbia and have never experienced any signs of violence with a wide variety of personality types!

I think that this brew may have had additional plants besides the traditional Cappi and Viridis, as some less well meaning Shamans are in it for the financial side of the tourism side of Ayahuasca Ceremonies.

I can't imagine anyone in a sound state of Mind becoming violent on Aya, this is not my experience of this wonderful medicine at all!

There was obviously some mental health issues with one or both of these people involved.

This just shows that anyone contemplating going on a retreat needs to do some research about the people running the ceremonies, I was knocked back by two places before I found the right place for me, and I got immense growth from my time in the jungle.

Godiam.

[Distracted]

Has it ever been used in association with violence? IE sacrifices or the such?

[etherealdrifter]

Has it ever been used in association with violence? IE sacrifices or the such?

full on man, i from a small child watching the series 'cities of gold' was taught a scary story of Aztecs and south American aborigines by a french company using Japanese animation indeed.

Indeed fucking Friday.

edit: i must add that when using any hallucinogen, what ever the fuck it is in the country where it's legal to do so - i would want experienced people looking after me while i freak the fuck out and reconnect and reset an individual in stress that came to me for guidance or help.

If i went somewhere in the jungle in a foreign land i would surely expect that such matters as"been stabbed by someone freaking out' would be taken care of.

Set and setting and all that shit yeah?

Edited December 18, 2015 by etherealdrifter

[endorfinder]

toé? i.e. tropanes (scopolamine etc or datura/brugmansia) added to the mix? or simultaneous sly use of stimulants?

seems like very odd behaviour for someone on straight aya.

[Change]

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11516673

[simhanada]

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11516673

Matthew Dawson-Clarke died from a reaction to a tobacco purge I believe, despite that article not mentioning it and focusing on aya.

[Godiam]

We were told to stop taking any pharmaceuticals 2 weeks before arriving in Peru, and beside the Curandero, there was at least 2 assistants that would take care of anyone having a hard time, I have been in ceremonies outside of Sth America..... and there is always helpers, generally volunteers that have experienced the Mother several times, I remember being totally in my own space, and it would have taken an earthquake or more to bring me back to the (so called) earthly reality.

I can't believe people would just trust anyone to partake in a Sacred Ceremony.

Godiam.

[Sallubrious]

I just want to know where the knife came from. Did Gomes bring it to the ceremony or was it just kicking around.

Many of those places have experienced people at the ceremony to deal with wig outs, but I can't see them being able to do much about a knife wielding person intent on hurting someone or protecting himself from some perceived threat. Not many people without a firearm could really do much in a situation like that.

If they were friends (they both would have spoke english so maybe they were) they probably sat very close together, so even a trained security guard would have had a difficult time stopping him.

If Gomes brought the knife to the ceremony you'd really have to question his sanity and wonder what his motivations were. I wouldn't want to take any mind altering substance - even alcohol with someone who feels a need to bring a knife to the meeting.

It just seems wrong to blame it all on the Ayahuascu without knowing (or reporting) all the details.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Sally

[Change]

^^ i read in a different article, the knife came from the kitchen of the retreat

Edit

Another source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Mr Gomes apparently used a knife from the kitchen of the alternative health centre Phoenix Ayahuasca to attack Mr Stevens.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3365275/British-man-killed-Canadian-self-defence-tried-attack-knife-pair-took-hallucionogenic-plant-brew-Peruvian-retreat.html#ixzz3ufdd3vtM
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Edited December 18, 2015 by Change

[Sallubrious]

Thanks for filling in the gaps Change.

It does put the original article into a different light. So he's either procured the knife before or during the ceremony, a slight but very important nuance.

If he procured it beforehand then that would indicate some form of pre-medicated motivation and a degree of cold heartedness. If he procured it during the ceremony you have to wonder why Stevens was the target of his rage and not some other member of the group.

I wonder if he had some underlying issues that he hadn't dealt with i.e. social or financial inadequacy or a woman (or man) had come between them ?

[courage]

I guess it's also important to remember things like this happen all of the time - without any drugs of any kind involved. A divorce might set someone off, some other life crises etc. It's only a matter of time, especially considering the commercial nature this kind of thing is gathering over there, before someone with these kind of underlying issues has a flip out. Perhaps the aya was only coincidental with this man's issues? I am only speculating, I'd just hate to see this medicine get a bad wrap when with the right intentions, set/setting, facilitation etc. it holds so much healing potential. Maybe this is the problem with commercialising something that should only be done under the right inner intuitive sense of the voyager, the preparation and the proper discernment by said shamans of who should really be using the medicine. Money just brings a bad energy into the whole process, it is not something that should be bought, but rather the medicine chooses you, not the opposite. For example I heard of a shaman who would start people on passionflower etc before working up to more powerful medicines - if of course he felt they were ready that. Just a thought anyway.

Edited December 18, 2015 by courageoftheweak

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

I hope it wasn't the illuminati trying to make aya look even worse in the media... Can anyone else imagine in, say 10yrs, USA black hawks raiding remote retreats in the jungle? It seems like the next step in the war on drugs once they tackle the crack problems

[Sallubrious]

There's something sus going on. The first article said Stevens killed him in self defence. Other reports are saying Stevens attacked Gomes. They don't see to agree with who came from Canada, some reports are saying Gomez and others Stevens.

They all seem like wild speculation, you'd think they'd actually do some research into a murder case before they start printing stories based on speculation.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Sally

[gtarman]

To be honest I don't think this story says anything particularly damning about hallucinogens, even if true...besides the fact that unstable and violent people ought not to take them.

Mentally healthy and well-adjusted individuals don't suddenly take to killing eachother after dropping acid or partaking of aya or what have you. The fact that thousands of people a month do the exact same trip in the exact same places without issue can attest to this.

Granted, ayahuasca is a very powerful hallucinogen, and could freak people out and create a scary experience for some people in some situations. But even if that was the dynamic that led to this situation, what the heck kind of "professional" set-up would leave any possibility of heavily intoxicated and potentially delusional people accessing knives or other things that could harm themselves or others? That's just basic incompetence, not taking fundamental physical safety precautions.

[nitrogen]

I've participated in quite a number of aya ceremonies in the USA - from time to time people do completely lose it and have to be restrained and so forth - never seen someone become dangerous to others, but sometimes people are just super high and become dissociated and convinced that they are possessed by evil spirits, or paranoid that it is a conspiracy, or that they have been poisoned - that sort of thing. In these cases sometimes the person has to be taken to another room and potentially restrained until they come down a bit.

Now, the important thing to know is that these "serious adverse events," like the stabbing death - they occur in a tiny fraction of a % of all the people who consume ayahuasca. When we compare those unfortunate outcomes with the reality that the vast majority of people experience enormous, often life-changing benefit, the overall picture is that the benefits of ayahuasca outweigh the risks by a spectacular margin.

In the USA, 40% of ALL violent crime happens under the influence of alcohol. 75% of ALL domestic violence cases involve a drunk male. Now, just imagine if the media reported these events each time they happened!

Edited December 19, 2015 by nitrogen