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Spiritual purging

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So for many years ive read and heard people talking about the positive effects of purging which can be induced by ayahuasca

So ive been wondering can one spiritually cleanse themselves from alcohol induced vomiting ?

My understanding of alcohol induced vomiting was that the body has reached toxic levels of the toxin (alcohol) and is now trying to get as much as possible back out of your system.

So would it be fair to state, that purging from ayahuasca is just purging up toxins in the brew that your body isnt familiar with and or unable to metabolize and thus causes you to purge and have diarrhea as a direct results from ingesting something your body perceives to be a toxic ?

Im starting to wonder if the purge is only required after you ingest something toxic, and rather then cleansing your soul, your actually just regurgitating the toxin you just consumed in an attempted to cleanse yourself of toxins. this idea feels quite circular, first ingest a toxin, then purging it back, now your back to where you started before u consumed said toxin.

The statement "the purge is wonferful, it removed all the toxins from my body" makes me wonder, what toxin were actually removed ?

Another point

When people ingest bad batched of Xtc and start to purge, it this also a spiritual cleaning experience or just someone body trying to survive the attack of a toxic product.

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The statement "the purge is wonferful, it removed all the toxins from my body" makes me wonder, what toxin were actually removed ?

could it be because vomiting causes endorphin release and in the heightened state of ayahuasca trip this may seem like a "spiritual release"?

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I respect the perceptions individuals share about experiences they've had.

I consider vomiting to be an overwhelmingly negative experience although it concludes with a sense of great relief. However, I've not vomited from ayahuasca.

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The less spiritual take:

Regulation of emesis

  • Irritation in the GI tract. Toxins or irritants cause the release of serotonin by specialized cells in the epithelium. Serotonin sensitizes and/or stimulates afferent neurons that project to the vomiting center in the brainstem.
  • Triggers in the bloodstream. Factors in the circulation are capable of stimulating emesis through their action on the area postrema. The area postrema (located adjacent to the fourth ventricle) has an incomplete blood-brain barrier, which allows it to be sensitive to chemicals in the blood. Neurons from the area postrema project to and activate the vomiting center.
  • CNS triggers. Various stimuli (fear, smells, anticipation) as well as vestibular disturbances (motion sickness) cause nausea and vomiting through pathways that are poorly understood.

There are several other neurotransmitters besides serotonin that are involved in the pathways controlling nausea and vomiting - substance P, dopamine, histamine, acetylcholine etc.

Stimulation of the 5-HT3 receptor causes emesis. Substances can be agonists directly of the 5-HT3 receptor or induce serotonin release, and serotonin stimulates afferents projecting to the vomiting center [1].

Ethanol also binds to and activates 5-HT3 receptors. Specifically, ethanol has been shown to bind to 5-HT3A receptors, and ethanol stabilizes the open configuration of the 5-HT3 ion channel. The 5-HT3 ion channel conducts sodium ions, so it is excitatory. Ethanol and serotonin both cause nausea and vomiting by stimulating the 5-HT3 receptor. (Ethanol also causes nausea by creating acetaldehyde in the stomach lining, and other effects.) [2]
Edited by Alchemica
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"Stimulation of the 5-HT3 receptor causes emesis. Substances can be agonists directly of the 5-HT3 receptor or induce serotonin release, and serotonin stimulates afferents projecting to the vomiting center [1]."

That is pretty freaking cool. Hadn't read about that before. I don't think that the vomiting that occurs from ethanol is necessarily due to agonism of the 5-HT3 receptor. And there must also be individual differences in susceptibility to vomiting due to 5-HT3 agonism, as many individuals would have unique isoforms of proteins (slightly different versions of one protein ie the 5-HT3 receptor protein). It would be really interesting to take a 5-HT3 antagonist before a huge intake of ethanol or any other purgative substance to test the effect of removing that kind of signalling.

I also think that anyone would feel awesome after stopping purging. Which may lead to the feeling, in retrospect, that the purge itself lead to the good feelings therefore it must have removed something bad (which was actually the thing you just had that made you purge and feel shit). So it's kind of making yourself feel shit for long enough and in such a way that when you feel back to "normal" it actually feels "good".

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Unfortunately I can't purge!

no shit!

I've been laying on the for convulsing and foaming white shit from the mouth many time from overdosing on stuff but never vomited.

the only exception to this rule was about 5 years ago when I was drinking a litre and a half of wild turkey everyday for months and suddenly up came about 700 mls of blood but no food or drink just raw blood?

I can shit though! fuck when it wants to come out the other end I can shoot great distances. better to just keep pants on when this happens.

I personally don't think there is anything spiritual about it.

plus gastric acids absolutely destroy teeth quicker than coke witch really says something about the purge.

wert

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better to just keep pants on when this happens.

so you just shit yourself? doesn't sound like fun

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sometimes it's just inevitable!

I always keep a spare pair of pants n jocks with me.

I have ulcerative colitis so that just compounds the shitting prob.

but if I can believe me I'd rather make an abomination of someones toilet than my costume.

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Edited by wert

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I liken it to the ebb and flow of life in a general sense.

Experiences which are truly difficult, which instill in the subject an utter desperation ("god help me").. One emerges from those with a different set of priorities ("I'll do anything to avoid that feeling again and feel blessed"). At least that's how it works for some people after binge drinking (obviously not everyone).

As i said I find strong nausea among the worst experiences I've had. When it goes away its as though I've walked through a desert and found an oasis. A good feeling but no reason to walk in the desert again; on the contrary I will take extra pains to avoid it.

Is an aya purge any different? Is the nausea of a different quality, not just to say does it carry psychedelic layers because I've been there.. Is the nausea less dreadful? Or is it simply muffled by the intensity of the sensory deluge?

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my experiences of aya purges = nil nausea leading up to the purge.

...and ive had plenty of nausea induced throws in my life due to all manner of other substances & actions, to compare.

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I had a san pedro purge in Peru, it was after a week in the jungle purging on Aya. I ate the raw cactus as there was no other way for me to prep it (by myself in the highlands), I felt the purge coming and strangely the masticated cactus with its sliminess was really easy to purge, it kind of just slid out without and discomfort, best vom ever :-) I felt fine for the next 12 hours then finally got some sleep ( I was about 3 hours in at that point).

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I think about it like Echinacea, you put it into your body and it irritates your immune system. While your immune system is active it also attacks other foreign substances in your system.

So: Drink a toxin, and purge out that toxin plus other toxins with it.

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thats a good way of putting it IndianDreaming.

makes me think my body would be better of if I could spew. well I have thought that in the past many times ODing on alcohol, datura (very stupid dose) and a couple of other things I injected into my body when I was alot younger and less wise.

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I think about it like Echinacea, you put it into your body and it irritates your immune system. While your immune system is active it also attacks other foreign substances in your system.

So: Drink a toxin, and purge out that toxin plus other toxins with it.

But most toxins aren't hanging about in your stomach where they will be purged, are they? They're lurking in your fat & internal organs, hiding in your hair, lingering in your vitreous humour and so on. So as Change said, having a little vom isn't going to remove much that we didn't just put in there. It might help to clear out your eyes/nose/throat of anything that was caught in the mucus, but it isn't going to clear years of accumulated lead out of your bones, for example. I think the "purging out toxins" that people speak of isn't really literal (for the most part) - it's just a psychological thing.

That said, a "just psychological thing" under the influence of a strong psychedelic can change your life. So I'm certainly not arguing that it can't be a powerful experience. I just don't believe there's much in the way of physical removal of toxins (especially accumulated ones) going on.

Some people find purging to be a positive thing, and not only in the "banging-your-head-against-a-wall-feels-so-good-when-it-stops" sense. Under the influence, they associate some negative aspect of their life (eg. a traumatic experience) with the actual physical nausea they're experiencing. When they finish throwing up, the nausea usually goes away as well, and maybe with it goes some of that emotional distress they felt from the associated negative experience. So to put it another way if they were actually head-banging rather than taking aya, the process might go something like this:

- associate banging head against wall with some time I was beaten up in highschool

- bang head against wall

- stop banging head against wall

- feel relief from distress, both from the present physical pain, and from the remembered fear & shame of the associated beating

Your brain isn't normally in a state where it can associate things like that so well, but altered states can definitely assist these associations - how many of you have some food or smell that makes you instantly nauseous or anxious because you experienced it under the influence with something negative and now associate it with that so strongly that you actually experience it as a negative thing in & of itself?

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My first thoughts would be around the nature of how alcohol is consumed, the vibrational state it induces in comparison to the aya experience, effects and the spirit of the plant itself.

Not to denature the usage of alcohol, though people who vomit on alcohol do typically attempt to send themselves into oblivion, in comparison to an aya experience which demands a deep respect.

Not only that, but compare the toxic effects of alcohol on the body, as opposed to the rejuvenating and insightful nature of aya.

With every physical component, there is always a spiritual-energetic component. In my opinion the nature of the purge lies thusly.

Edited by courageoftheweak
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More thoughts...

In agreeing with Anodyne,

Having a good cry, or shouting and screaming like a maniac, dancing wildly etc. may not seem to at first glance do much in the way of physical purging/removal of toxins. But on an energetic level in the right state, can create a profound release.

Going with the physical-emotional-spiritual connection, I'd be confident to say such actions have a healing and cleansing effect on our physical body.

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The purge out of the other end would remove more toxins than vomiting, especially if you have digestive issues and a slow intestinal transit time.

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i love the purge, the spew, the heave, the driving the porcelain bus etc, it makes the detox/spiritual journey come on. I know when i fork out the spirits out of me gob ,.....here it comes.

Anyways, i don't think anyone could equate the vombits that fly out when pissed, with the bliss vomitarorium rainbow toxin arches.

Two different kettles of fish. I've always embraced the purge it shows how much i've been bad boy Cecil :)

Interesting trundles how on the brew you didn't nuke out the chunks but hey.........maybe your innards are more shiny than mine :)

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I sometimes feel like my body is just being stubborn & ungrateful when it purges... no, don't reject that, it's good for you, you stupid... no dessert until you finish your cactus greens... seems so wasteful sometimes, but what can you do? Area postrema does what it wants, it doesn't care about your petty plans for enlightenment.

I purge so often, at the slightest provocation, that it doesn't usually even bother me now - like if you had to run up a hill at the start of every journey, it's just a physical task I need to get thru. I think of it now as something William Burroughs wrote in the The Yage Letters: "There is a feeling of space-time travel that seems to shake the room. It occurs to me that preliminary yagé nausea is motion sickness of transport to yagé state"

Nausea & vomiting are inconvenient sometimes, but they do serve a practical function as well - to help stop you from being poisoned. It strikes me that people who didn't get nauseous or throw up - whether because of some drug or a genetic disposition or whatever - would be at greater risk of poisoning themselves by OD'ing on something, because they wouldn't experience that protective reflex of the body to get that stuff back out. Though it does seem like the body isn't always the best judge of what is & isn't poison - like it's been reading that TGA "Poisons List" with all the drugs on it... friggin narc vomiting-centre...

This is your area postrema, showing its deep concern for your psycho-spiritual development:

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To clarify, I haven't tried aya and don't especially intend to. Such is my fear of nausea.

Comparing alcohol with cactus greens, even though one is far more valuable, I don't find any value in the nausea except that I think cactus becomes part of you and you experience, perhaps, being a bit like cactus, and that may just be a nauseous scenario for a human or at least for this human.

I still think, in response to op, that the point on the continuum of good and bad, where one gives way to the other, is nudged around according to our motions along that continuum. An oversimplification but each experience can alter the lens through which the next experience is viewed.

Whoever mentioned the vomit of nice fibrous slime has a good point. A nasty little concentrated yak is likely to taste abhorrent and cause ferocious reaching. It makes sense that the characteristics of a chunder depend heavily on the characteristics of the stomach contents.

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I always prepare days in advance eating only fruits and vegies. witch is good for you obviously. but, I fast for at least 48 hrs before any spiritual journey on any spiritual mock up.

maybe this helps I don't know?

sure I get extremly nauseas sometimes but never purge?

perhaps in my older ages I will experience this release and relate differently?

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