Germinating Caapi

[Conv3rgence]

I'm looking for advice based on personal experiences with germinating the three main Brazillian strains, Caupuri, Tucunacá and Ourinhos. I have done a bit of research, and a generalized overview is as follows.

Seeds must be fresh, and lose viability fast. Sow seeds with the wing pointed upwards, 1/4 to 1/8 inch deep in rich well draining soil, whats usually reccomended is 25% perlite and sieved potting mix with a bit if course sand. Some recommend a bit of coco coir, and some recommend spaghnum moss at the top layer (not peat). A humid environment is required, so either a container or baggy method, with a sterilisation if the sowing medium before by microwave or oven. Daily venting is recommended, as it seems that fungus / mold is a big problem with caapi seeds, yet they need the humidity. Constant heat above 24C is needed, and there hasnt been any mention of day/night temperature cycles like cacti seeds need. I haven't read anything about light requirements for germination.

I read a bit of others experiences with caapi and it didnt look promising, a lot of failure and difficulty, even with fresh seed. Most common was fungus/mold attacks, poor germination rates, and seedlings dying after germinating.

I was wondering if any if the good people at SAB have any first hand experience germinating these three strains, and if they had any specific advice for a reliable method to follow.

Thanks

[ace1928]

I've found so far that stable temperatures, decent light, lots of water and nice rich soil leads to a reasonable success rate.
Definitely a touchy one to sprout and absolutely loves it's water
For the fungus you could have a go at watering with weak peroxide solution.

around about 0.05% peroxide will do fine for your plants (they actually love it). Put 1 shot (30ml) of 3% hydrogen peroxide into 1.5L of water. Should do you good. Will breakdown within a day or so most of the time at such a weak concentration. Helps with mold massively

Hopefully others have their own tips

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

never tried ourhinos .. but i certainly will when i get the opportunity...

and my supplier with the caupuri about doubled the price of their seeds samaras this year ...

so umm,.. 'didn't bother until I find some a bit more affordable..

but last year all 10 caupuri sprouted and one by one died off with the final death 2 months ago ..

i'm just sprouting muricata(cabi roxo in Brazil), white aya, alicia , for the 3rd year running ...

-tucunaca doesn't need re-sowing , it's that reliable so far...

This year I sowed them along with some banisteriopsis sp' sky blue and peruvian yellow caapi...

Tucunacá appears, thus far; to be the easiest and very satisfying.

I have 2x 2yr olds,..

here's one of them

(also may visit your dreams the night before you see it sprout)

Caupuri was ridiculously easiest and fastest to germinate, just a pain to keep alive..

Muricata seems the next easiest, 1 x 2yr old and just resowed 5

(also visited dreams and next am was sprouted)

Alicia anisopetala (if you're that way inclined) scores pretty easy too and seems to have the power

to resurrect it's self after being dead(at least twice in my experience) -

1x2 yr old and resowed again just in case

and white aya failed first year, but i have 2x 1 yr olds left out of 8 and resowed again just in case

i found them all particularly easy , just a patience game, ... in my rainforest box thingy.

av temps are 23.8 - 32C (the day night cycle) but also dependent upon weather ...

~humidity at a constant 100% all year round...

first year i germed in john innes seed 'samara' loam with fresh live sphagnum clipped into fluff ..

and potted on to miracle grow compost topped with live sphagnum clipped etc,

2nd year i created a blend using charcoal, live sphagnum, sand, ericaceous, perlite, john innes seed 'samara' loam, DE kitty litter, ormus, .. and other goodies i forget...

those 2 years the Rainforest box was in a sunroom/conservatory and had nice sunlight filtered by double glazing

this year, in the home, i had to beef up the lighting to save the lianas [and the psychotrias]

(didn't realize how much the sun aided us while growing in the sunroom)

and I just used ericaceous with a bit of perlite and it's only been 2 or 3 days so far...

i cant imagine Ourhinos being much harder to sprout than Tucunacá but i just don't know yet..

i only tried nuking the pots this year after doing a round of cactus sowings

using the microwave tek and was completely unnecessary the 2 years prior..

as was the saran wrap/cling film/shrinkwrap/whatever you call that plastic stuff in your lands..

here's pics of this year's sowing and i always update in the

"what did you do in your sacred garden thread"

-I allowed the fungi that came in on the samaras to enjoy 2 days with the cling film on before whipping it off.

and i have a few albums containing all my pics from every attempt at aya's

but here's the main liana one

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?app=gallery&album=778

i hope this helps..

and give us a shout if I can help with anything further mate

good luck , happy sowing and hope you enjoy them growing ..

be prepared to retry every year with fresh seeds samaras until you achieve your desires ;)

-and be prepared to over-sow in case of losses, although i began with just 5 seeds samaras of each and they did me really well, at a guess i'd say 80-100% germination rates..(except white aya with nil)

2nd attempt i tried with 10 packs.

this year i went back to 5 packs except for the new sky blue one where i got 10 in pairs/3's so it still looks like fewer are sown lol..

- horsey

p.s. if you end up giving the white aya a bash... : it helped to ease them out of their embryo coatings when they were sprouting.

Edited November 19, 2015 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[Conv3rgence]

In case you guys didnt know, they are giving away fresh free caapi seeds of those 3 varieties, over on sharetheseeds. Thats where I got mine, they sent it out super fast, just ask for state appropriate labelling according to whats permissible. Very generous giveaway, i think they want caapi global domination.

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

aww you beauty , thangx for the heads up mate

pm'd @share the seeds !

if all being well.. do you mind if I post any progress at SAB on the STS Brazilian trio in this thread..., additional to sts?

-might have to put a rush on the rainforest box upgrade eh? (double sized one in the pipeline) x]

[Conv3rgence]

 

if all being well.. do you mind if I post any progress at SAB on the STS Brazilian trio in this thread..., additional to sts?

-might have to put a rush on the rainforest box upgrade eh? (double sized one in the pipeline) x]

Go head, you don't need my permission to post anything, I've been an approved SAB member for like 2 months.

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

Welcome aboard if I didn't welcome you already , and thank you kindly.

I look forward to sprouting these cool seeds with you digitally : )

and enjoy the site mate!

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

I was going to buy a double size rainforest box ...

but cash-strapped via court battling has lead me to remember that I have the old toadarium which is probably better than the RFB for germinatio : 3

so, equipped with a waterproof heatmat with an inbuilt thermostat to cut out at 35C ...

I think I will set this up next five mins I have spare in prep'...

and source some nice LED floodlights mebbeh?

seeds are on their way to Equestria and I may have a few spare after sowing , will see how it goes.

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

bit more testing and planning

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

ok I have tried to do a nice pictorial of the process and no I'ze not in a hot country

(excluding a few summer months here and there)

this year I 'just under-filled' pots with coco coir just to try something new ..

and added a final topping of john innes seed 'samara' loam..

and since the seeds samaras arrived this morning ...

I sowed with the "wing sticking up method"...

i tried to capture the alicia seed samara sowing "tek"

(knobbly side down, spread wings and dump a bit of soil onnem)

and white aya seed samara sowing "tek"

(spread wings, stem side down insertion and gather a bit of soil round them until just the tips are poking out above the soil)

...that I've worked out in previous years too ..

-I also sowed 2 white aya upside down on the left portion of the pot's fill to see if it would make a difference ...

I guess I should try some on their side next time?

...bit of a light spray down (prob 500ml max) of 50/50 cooled boiled HMA filtered water mixed with aquarium water.

(cooled boiled rain would have been preferable but no access to rain yet)

and time to sit back and watch... hopefully it'll be dream visiting sproutation which gives something to be excited about eh? : 3

i hope this helps mate, and anyone else sowing these awesome "malpiggiewiggies"

p.s. what is nice, is to throw a few in the air one at a time and see how they land ;)

Edited November 12, 2015 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

wooohooo grats on your first sprout on the tunku!

just added a light today to see if I can get any early risers :3

and cor that humidity is really high

.. there's vents on the front of the old toad(used to have a bufo alvarius in there)and they're positioned to make the "viewing panel" clearest but even they're having little effect

quick whip of the old squeegie and aah thats better

and while we're down here ..

et voila, the tv works again :3

now to get some action going ... *sits tight and waits*

[Conv3rgence]

The sharetheseeds freebie caapi seeds germinate rather well. Tuncunuca is the early sprouter, then a few days later Ourinhos pops up. Caupuri was last, only one of this type so far, should see the rest shortly. Even though I oriented them wing up, a few seemed to sprout upside down but left to their own devices, they curved around and sorted themselves out.

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

awesome stuffs man!

WOOO got a first sprout over the last few hours , this one's a peruvian yello from wss

and I can't wait to see the order play out that you just described x] *exciting*

*i didnt get the dream this time one of my whipper snappers did

did you get anything like that ?

Edited November 17, 2015 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

sprout 2 of peru yellow just happened in the last hour

(been checking all evening and sang to them for a second time)

sprout 1 seems to be advancing nicely too

so if sowed 29th .......then i could give yellow P a timescale beginning around the 3 week mark

i wonder how much singing at them helps.. i don't wonder enough to stop trying though i guess..

Edited November 18, 2015 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[Conv3rgence]

Re: singing thunderhorse

I used to be a skeptical adherent to scientific method, reason, rational thinking and took an empiricist approach to all things - I had to see it to believe it. After some events in my life that I wont go into, my world view got turned on its head, and I spent a lot of time researching into esoteric practices, dreams, intuition, and the generally unexplainable side of reality. After much time I have come to the conclusion that although I still need to 'see it to believe it', I accept that sometimes one also needs to 'believe it before they see it.'

There is alot more to humans than science tells us, and there is plenty of evidence for the power of intention. The problem is that when science tries to investigate the power of intention, it forgets that the scientist becomes part of the experiment, their intentions influence outcomes. (wave-partical paradox)

It is only my personal opinion, but I would say 'yes' your singing does help, but only if you are genuine and you believe it will help. Its not the actual singing, this is merely a tool to focus your attention, your intent, your will. You could pray, you could daily mist them, it is the belief and the intention that counts.

Now for someone like me, still quite grounded by science, yet open to the unexplainable... I do all the things for seedling care and germination that science tells me and that the experiences of others tell me. Perhaps in a way, i draw energy from this, confidence, trust in myself and the method. This is then channelled as an intent in the act of daily misting, aeration, proper soil substrate, etc. This then becomes a ritual of sorts, a ritual of a scientific religion.

Keep doing what you do and if it feels right, it is right.

[oriky]

Mate, your teks are amazing, and your plants too.

I just sow the seeds on moist soil, keeo it moist, and even the temp are cold the germinate, (16-26 c).

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

that's awesome news , one samara got dropped and helicoptered down into one of my acacia pots on my windowsill...

its 19C -17.3C-18C in the three places i measure room temps ..

but I imagine the windowsill is much colder- but currently supporting a salvia

(in another acacia pot on the windowsill) under a plastic dome fairly ok ..

it would be great to grow bannies as houseplants on the windowsill ..

and it's exciting to share especially if it helps anyone along the way... t'was mighty frustrating for me to bash it out for myself on little tid-bits of info here and there when just a wee nubile meself

(was doing that for trichos that discovered SAB for me)

Edited November 20, 2015 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

well a little sing song to each samara about 3 hours ago et voila

first Tucunacá to break free ... 8 days after sowing

[shonman]

I ordered some black caapi seeds, I hope I can get them to sprout!

Black Caapi Matters!!!

Edited November 20, 2015 by shonman

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

mmm i'm really itching for some little trident shaped emerging sproutlets from my 5 but as far as i recall they took the longest

(at the time the only to compete with were muricata and tukunaca) they sprouted about december jan back then if i recall rightly

and a few later in march or april maybe ..

got a new sprout just now (been checking on the half hour since returning home) on the caupuri

WHEW! #]

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

ran out of random icaro sounding songs to mumble so found some thing appropriate to play them on youtube :3

 

 

i hope conv3rgence got some nice lovely sproutlets.... or.. updates or piccies or whatever time allows for

or anyone else germinating currently..

-later edit- a further 2 tuncs sprouted since this post

...so i took the chance to examine one before it bore down

oh yeah i forgot to add.. i sprayed them down with HMA filtered water{discus fish-keeping water}

(sprayer filled on a slow trickle for max filtration)

Edited November 21, 2015 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

3 caupu sprouts today and another tunc.. in the olde toad 'Tlalocan'

...played this to them while giving them a spray down after adding some finely chopped sphag

 

 

...tempted to add some kind of invertebrates so will see what comes in/survived the pre-wash from the mosses

and also the lichens I added to the rainforest box..

might snip some more moss to add now...

Edited November 21, 2015 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

finally ourinhoss sprouted this evening ...

along with a few caupuri pals

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

a little full moon update at the 2 week mark

Edited November 26, 2015 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[Cubism]

Here's my first popping up from my Herbalistics seed planting like 5 or 6 weeks ago. The STS seeds either side have only been down a few days. (and cheers convergence for the heads up on the STS giveaway, much appreciated mate)

As for teks, I admire you guys efforts but I prefer to keep it simple, or maybe Im just lazy (?). All I did was a few handfuls of any old potting mix, one or two of propagating sand, moisten and then into the mini greenhouse. Maybe not exactly ideal, but worked well for the Alicia.

Looking forward to the other three popping up now...