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Distracted

When is privacy necessary?

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If everybody was all accepting we wouldn't need to keep anything private.

Or if we all shared the same ideals we could willingly share everything.

Is privacy a concept designed to protect us from the state when their laws are unjust?

Unless there is a difference between our ideals and the ideals of the state and these ideals are actioned upon we shouldn't require privacy.

Perhaps from social embarrassment or judgement?

Do we need privacy because we do not trust each other?

My moral compass points this way.

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Do you want just anyone to know where you are at all times and what your looking at, without context. We shouldn't need to justify our selves, If something needs to be said that might get you into trouble your screwed as of today. I wonder how this data retention thing will work with anonymous tips, if the data Is going to be stored couldn't this tipper be found out?

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Do you want just anyone to know where you are at all times and what your looking at, without context.

I would only care if I thought that someone could or would use this information to harm me.

Currently I don't trust either the government or society.

To me fixing privacy is ignoring the elephant in the room.

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Would or could you know if they could or would? All it does is give those who you don't trust more power. Without privacy there can only be chaos.

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if one has nothing to hide, then why would one require privacy in the first place?

some say, good fences make good neighbors, but i think if you've got good neighbors you don't need a fence.

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Does privacy protect the rich more, or the poor?

Should the affairs of the state remain private too?

Would you forfeit your privacy to expose the corruption of others?

edit: changed 'lose' to 'forfeit' in last sentence.

Edited by Distracted

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Would you forfeit your privacy to expose the corruption of others?.

Im happy to forfeit mine.

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To me fixing privacy is ignoring the elephant in the room.

Maybe it's just easier to have curtains & VPNs than to host the revolution?

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Maybe it's just easier to have curtains & VPNs than to host the revolution?

True true, i'm definitely guilty of that sort of thinking. It's cultured unfortunately :(.

Privacy just seems to be an odd one for me, from my understanding privacy was first conceptualised with freedom but to me freedom and privacy seem at ends to each other. If I have to hide things am I really free?

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And I would argue that the idea of privacy (in our society, at least) has as much to do with "ownership" as it has to do with the self-protection/lack-of-trust business you were talking about. We believe we're entitled to a certain amount of personal space - literally & figuratively. It's socially rude (in many situations at least) to ask about someone's income, sexuality... hell, it can be rude to make eye contact! Think on that for a moment - we are so hung up on the idea of giving everyone their personal space & privacy that it is actually considered rude to even look directly at them in a public place.

And before someone says that the personal-space issue is all just because we don't trust strangers, no, that isn't it (or at least, not all of it). In India say, there is no concept of personal space when you're out in public - if you're sitting on a train, someone will put their child in your lap, if you're doing something interesting, people will stare. It isn't considered rude to ask someone how much they earn, or paid for something. And yet I don't think anyone is going to say that this is because Indians are so much more trusting than we are. It's just a different model - like the idea of personal privacy only extends to you when you're somewhere private - if you're out in public you're fair game. But we think wherever we are, we "own" the space around us, the right not to be looked at funny. So I think alot of people's protection of their privacy isn't actually because they're worried what the neighbours (or cops or ATO or DMCA or whoever) would think, but more that they believe they own their personal details & no one else has a right to them.

Of course, I'm just speaking of society in general - anyone on these forums probably does have reason to worry what their neighbours would think. If I had no privacy I'm pretty sure they would have burnt me as a witch by now.

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Hey Distracted it's the RIGHT to privacy that is necessary. Just move to Queensland or spend some time in a Thai prison to know what I mean. If everyone did the right thing all the time it would be the Kingdom of Heaven - we wouldn't need police, laws or judicial systems...but guess what?

Peace! P's Dog.

(Mind you if you wanted to set your house up as a public reality TV show, I'd watch it!)

Edited by Pat Uri

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Does privacy protect the rich more, or the poor?

Well, it kinda protects anyone who has something to hide - people are doing wrong at all socioeconomic levels. But... I'd say that the wrongs of the rich are more likely to have the effect of fucking over the poor than vice versa - whether this is a rich doctor killing a hooker or a politician killing an employment scheme - the poor are almost always the ones getting secretly screwed. So while privacy might protect the acts of both rich & poor, the rich are more likely to be in a position of power where those actions can hurt someone else.

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this new thing is just about data retension, if you think your privacy has changed your in denial.

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I really like to be alone.
I like to have time to myself and myself alone.
To know there is someone else aware of what I'm doing at all times is rather irritating.

Animals like privacy. Even many that run on instinct. Even when in safe environments. They aren't doing anything "right" or "wrong". Why do they want privacy?
Even a pet dog. There are times where they want to be by themselves.

With the new data retention thing if you have a mobile on you at any point then your location is pretty known.

Case in point

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-24/metadata-what-you-found-will-ockenden/6703626

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Guys if you'd like to talk about data retention changes go make a thread in chill, i intended this to be a broad ideological discussion about privacy, not a specific discussion about the retention of meta data. Thanks!

The animal point is an interesting one but the question still remains WHY?!

I'm not sure if an animal can accurately assess danger (i'm being literal there, i am not sure)

I know my cats should feel safe inside their home but when they hear a foreign noise they freak out just like everyone else, if they were to run and retreat I would imagine it would be to eliminate potential stressors found in the environment.

Now don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to shoot down suggestions or argue, I made this thread hoping someone could change my mind or give a different input for me to digest while working. This is all brain food for me :D

A lot of people feel entitled to privacy. I'm wondering how many people are against telepathy?

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privacy is necessary whenever an individual deems it so for themselves

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Perhaps it requires a substantial amount of cognitive effort to maintain a social awareness of the people around you or observing you.
I certainly find that it requires effort and consideration well beyond what you need to give to yourself.
I personally, and perhaps others are like me, get burnt out by the constant vigilance needed to be aware of how people are feeling and taking things that are being said, to understand the subtle underlying dialogue between "groups" within friends. It all gets a bit much so, to avoid offending anyone by being callous or careless or blunt, you piss off to enjoy some privacy to do your own thing without risk of being irrtated or causing irritation to others.

No matter how good of a person you or anyone else is we are all dickheads for at least a portion of the time. Everyone needs some privacy/personal space away from that.

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isp's can already see everything you do, the gov have been hacking and duplicating targetted computers since the 90's. all this new deal does is guarantee 2yrs worth of data.

doesn't really change the fact they can bug your home while your out, monitor your car, your computer.

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Privacy is necessary when you are having a doctor remove a persistent gerbil that won't come out of it's own accord.

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