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Nibbana

Young, not much money, options?

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Hi everyone!

Just gonna go out on a whim and post here. Sorry if it's in the wrong section. It does mainly come down to self sufficiency though.

Prepare for a while lot of rambling. If you want to skip it just read the stuff after the dotted lines.

So... my gf and I are both --. We've been together for a few years now and have grown to be inseparable and together we've become quite lost in this world. Wanting to free ourselves from this society and our parents to pursue our passions, we've encountered nothing but roadblocks.

We have the means and needs to go on to study at university and/or work decent jobs but found that we both do not fit in the traditional educational system and both don't find satisfaction in pursuing money. We have saved some money together working in the past after completing our studies but we've found it hard to go on working doing unfulfilling empty things for cash. We're not lazy people, we're both actually very enthusiastic and keen learners but we've found that most jobs we can't stick to because they just don't really engage us personally. We do recognize that money is a necessary evil but have found it really hard to make enough money to save to buy land even if we worked the jobs available to us in this age bracket.

We've made efforts to start a couple online businesses together and although reasonably successful. We expect them to only just sustain us financially when it comes to living needs. Definitely can't make enough to save for land, well we can but it'll take a decade minimum if were very lucky?

We just want to be self sufficient, live, love and so far our most important goal is "Find the others." as Timothy Leary said, but we have failed to find any like minded individuals in Sydney where we are located. As a result we haven't really built any strong friendships as individuals, we feel like nobody truly understands how we feel and what we want. The girlfriend and I have realized that social isolation can affect the both of us pretty damn badly even as a healthy loving couple whom spends most of their time together happily and whom interacts with friends and family on a daily basis. It's just a lack of people that we truly connect with.

All our friends and family seem so absorbed in their own little reality tunnels, working at their careers or doing whatever they can to manage their self esteem or whatever addiction they have or absorbed in some sort of reality tv show or silly celebrity drama or whatever other distraction that me and my gf can't seem to care about. We both also have -- fathers who are very traditional and only care about work work work, money money money, status status status and it absolutely drives us nuts. They have no concern for the creative mind or human evolution and love, their drive for money and status has turned us in the complete opposite direction. They only want their kids to make money and look good so they can brag about it and look good themselves. It just feels so against the soul.. you know? I don't even know if there is such thing as the soul, but living for money and status just doesn't feel right to us. It doesn't make us happy, there's just this great feeling of emptiness when we think of such things. I know a lot of the people on this forum probably feel the same.

Our interests are plants & animals & all of nature in general, medicinal and sacred plants, healthy eating and natural remedies, bushwalking, adventure, arts, DIY kind of stuff, self sufficiency, permaculture, foraging, --, love, freedom, true communication and connection with others. We love to have fun and share our love, we like to get people out of their shells of their normal routines and habits to dance and sing and open up and connect but I must say it is hard to find others willing to do so in our immediate surroundings. Another dream of ours is to start a little garden of eden of sacred and medicinal plants alongside our food farm, but find it hard to do so without our own land. We have a little cactus collection and a good collection of seeds but we're hesitant to expand and germinate them as much as we want to because we're still living with the parents and we know how they'll feel about such ventures. Plus I don't want to go through the trouble of taking everything with me after I've planted them or built up a good collection.

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So I'm posting here hoping to find some advice for us. Right now we just want to be free and meet like-minded individuals. We've worked out to be independent from our parents which means self sufficiency ofc. But for that we require land and for land we need money and for money we need to work work work and that honestly just depresses us.

So freedom = self sufficiency = land = money...

We've only got around $10k AUD altogether and land prices are only going up. I've heard a quarter acre is apparently the absolute minimum for self sufficiency and even that can cost 80-90k minimum located out in the middle of no where in a little town with nothing but a pub. Not to mention dealing with all the real estate, land and council approval stuff like zoning and building entitlements and costs of needing driveways built for certain properties etc etc.

Another option was to buy into a MO but even they cost 90k minimum for a share.

We both honestly know it is unrealistic to expect to own our own land anytime soon, especially at our age as no normal person our age even owns their own place and are probably still and will be living at home for a couple years to come. Still, our urge to be free and independent persists.

We've considered buying a van and just living real cheap in that. Mount a solar panel on the top for electrics and spend whatever money we have on fuel, food and whatever other essentials (mechanical maintenance, internet bills etc) Of course we wouldn't be able to do the permaculture stuff but we'll be more free, which is certainly something we crave at the moment.

The idea at the moment is to just head up north to Northern NSW region (Think Nimbin and Byron Bay) to just chill and hopefully meet people, as we've been up there two times in the past year and have found that we fit in up there the most. We're kind of hoping we can find someone that will allow us to live on their land in a tent or something for cheap. Doing the trip on the cheap too of course, either living in a car on the way up or stealth camping while riding postie bikes up as we both have our motorcycle licenses lol. Or even catching a ride up. We are kind of itching for an adventure at the moment but fear that it won't be worth it overall as it's quite an investment in itself and we've been saving for land lately. Definitely going to be a significant hit to the funds.

But yeah, we're willing to give up luxuries and live on the cheap. Even if it means pooping in a hole and having to wipe with leaves. Self sufficiency and finding the others is the dream at the moment.

Any advice or alternatives would be appreciated. Maybe we're just dreaming too big at too young of an age? Just looking for frank advice as were completely lost for direction anyhow.

Edited by Nibbana
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With 10K there is land around the place you could buy
It's not ideal land but it is land and it's workable.

I'm in a similar spot as you guys just minus the $10K. Would love that.
A few years back was in the exact same spot.
I think you're lucky enough to not yet have your spirit broken by the world.
And hopefully that doesn't happen.

I cant give advice though. If I could I wouldn't be in the same position.

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at 19 i was pretty enthusiastic about not being part of the system but working within it as a medium for change. but i knew the system was fucked. i was looking at education as my way forward as im not a practical person. i still do. and am back at studies.

i totally support the need for self sufficiency, so kudos to you for wanting to make a go of it. dont give up on the idea of studies. the connections made are just as valuable as the qualifications.

now in my 40's i think my biggest regret was not travelling at that age. i feel i missed a real opportunity to come to grips with how the rest of the world lives, and have some thought provoking life experiences. my advice is to leave settling down to when your in your 30's and 40's.

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Perhaps you could try WWOOFing or similar volunteer farm work? At least some of those places will be working in the direction you want (permaculture etc), and it might give you two a chance to see whether that kind of life is really for you, without spending all your savings?

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I wouldn't just stop at Northern Rivers, I'd keep moving. Do some seasonal picking if you can and do some volunteer work at nurseries or orchards. You'll get some valuable life experience, meet some great people and contacts and learn a few skills along the way. You'll also get to see more countryside and might find a nice plot of land where you least expect it.

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Also I'd say to grow a few plants wherever you live, however impractical it is - you may have to give them away when you move, but in the meantime they will help to keep you sane. :)

And welcome to the forum - great introduction post! I'm sure we'll have another Sydney meet again sometime - they're always good for reminding you that there are other freaks out there. And if you didn't want to wait for someone else to organise a gathering (because we are a bunch of hermits & slackers), you can always try just posting things like "me & my girlfriend will be going on a bushwalk/ visiting a plant-fair / going to see this band / whatever... next weekend - would any of you fine folks like to meet up beforehand & join us?"

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Welcome to the forum! I don't have much advice (for once). I'm 18 years older, and have a bit more saved - but ask myself many of the same questions as you seem to. Definitely try to meet up with some of the members. These people do wonders for my sanity; strange but true :)

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So the great Australian dream has been reduced to living in a tent on a shitty piece of land in the middle of nowhere, shitting in a hole and wiping your arse on leaves ?

I used to have dreams like that once too, but I find it's easier not to torment myself with such grand illusions.

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I think its called the Australian dream because its out of reach. Just a dream.

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I thought the great ozzy dream involved utes and vb.

There are some awesome crew in sydney although not sure on the meet situation. Agree with seasonal work / Woofing and also the keep moving whole east coast is full of amazing landscapes :)

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I grew up on a farm, and I can tell you, life on the land isn't automatically awesome or 'free'. Depending on how you are trying (or failing) to make a living, it can feel like you've swapped one set of constraints for another.

I do think that you should keep saving, while getting out into bush and seeing what it's like - without financially committing/trapping yourselves.

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On a bit of a sidenote (but slightly related) how exactly does someone who is young and broke afford to travel? I'd love to. I've always wanted to. But I can't travel. I can barely afford to live half the time. Let alone drop everything and somehow afford the travel costs to actually get around somewhere.

And as for the farm life being tough. At least if you are constrained or struggling its probably for a reason ie to feed yourself/survive.
So much of modern society just feels really pointless. maybe thats why Nibbana is looking to be self sufficient too?

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I'm not sure about the travel - I didn't do anything like that when I was your age - just way too skint. Everyone I know who went OS to exciting places burnt a huge amount of money to do so, even though they were working for at least part of the trip (London, of course). I knew people who followed the seasonal fruit and veg work up and down the east coast, but that seemed like a pretty hard and basic life (to a teenager at least).

Regarding farm life, don't get me wrong ace, the feeling of doing an honest day's work on the land is something I miss. I just wouldn't want people to think it's all like Gourmet Farmer, Escape to the Country or MacLeod's Daughters (lol). Commercial farming feels pointless when you work to the point of collapse 365 days a year and still make a loss. Not sure what the self-sufficiency equivalent is - all that work and still failing to produce enough to live off?

Not that I'm down on self-sufficiency. My own long term wish is to be in a position to have a go at this myself. But I know it will require a massive amount of work, knowledge and possibly cash - none of which is a guarantee of success.

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I went traveling in my younger days and I estimated it cost me around 20K a year not including the airfare and that was 15 yrs ago. Absolutely worth the adventures and experiences but took years of working and living at home and luck to pull off.

I am old and much better off now but even though Im on a good wage, I have a family of 4 to support so there is sweet FA left after all the bills are paid.

I spent years getting reamed in shitty jobs to gain the experience to leave it all behind and get a great job. Sometimes you have to suck it up in the present (for years :-( unfortunately) to set yourself up for a better future.

A mate of mine never would put up with shit jobs for long and has no tolerance for fools, he is still working shitty jobs and is beset on all sides by fools.

Unfortunately money makes the world go around, food and shelter and clothing don't usually manifest themselves from good intentions. I would love to be self sufficient with a large rainwater tank and solar and fruit trees and vegetables, that is an expensive dream, so I work and save and invest and hope for the best.

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Travel doesn't have to be that expensive - it depends where you want to go. You can get flights to SE Asia & thereabouts for ~$500, and several months food/accomodation/travel for about the same if you're willing to eat local food, sleep on some floors & catch some public transport. But I got the impression the OP was talking more about roadtripping up the east coast.

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There are ( a few) intentional communities about ( at least 2 in the northern rivers region) the require $0 investment to join.

One of which requires monthly levies of $50 from each community member enough to cover rates, stock the pantry with basics etc, the second i am unsure?

They both require you to provide your own accommodation and help in the functioning of the community. Both are by invitation only, skills, knowledge and enthusiasm are the prerequisites.

There are also moves afoot to precipitate a web of independent but interconnected series of intentional communities that would not necessarily require large cash investments by members. But would allow the free movement of people (and hopefully plants) between community sites.

Having said all that, there are as many options out there as there are people on these lands, so explore.

Edited to mention that a friend has just moved into the community mentioned above with a $8k investment to build her cottage and install a small solar system

Edited by shortly
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IMO the best thing you guys can do Is buy a half decent 4wd van, think Mitsubishi starwagon. Set it up with solar, fridge, rain catching tarp etc and go and live out in the bush, treat the bush as your land, as soon as your out the city you can live for free. Follow the seasons, work is so easy to find up North in the winter, you'll be living in a van so all those wages soon stack up, do this for a few years and decide where you want that block of land, or just keep roaming around. You'll meet a world of interesting people and see the best parts of this amazing country.

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I want to get my own land to run in my own personalised permaculture model too but I haven't come very far towards that goal yet.

You can change career at any time, study at any stage of your life. Whatever you do now you don't have to do it for any longer than you need to. You can do multiple things at once if you feel like it. While you are figuring out whatever achievements or awesome things you want to apply your life to you may as well look around you and enjoy it until whatever those goals are strike you, I think your current plan sounds great

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IMO the best thing you guys can do Is buy a half decent 4wd van, think Mitsubishi starwagon. Set it up with solar, fridge, rain catching tarp etc and go and live out in the bush, treat the bush as your land, as soon as your out the city you can live for free. Follow the seasons, work is so easy to find up North in the winter, you'll be living in a van so all those wages soon stack up, do this for a few years and decide where you want that block of land, or just keep roaming around. You'll meet a world of interesting people and see the best parts of this amazing country.

surely there are legal issues with just setting up shop in the bush? Edited by Scarecrow

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I was referring to a few days to a week in one spot then moving on. Some free camps/bush can be stayed at for a long time. Never encountered a problem in 6months in my bus, free camp every night, with a 4wd you can get to those out of the way spots.

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Thanks for the replies everyone. Definitely keen to learn more about permaculture and perhaps do some WOOFing or farm work to see if that life suits us 100%.

Leaning in that direction though as our lifestyles already seem somewhat fitting. e.g. we grow some veggies in my backyard, we compost our own scraps and have our own little worm farm and use it to fertilize our plants, we enjoy making own soaps and toothpaste, were very efficient with what we consume and how much waste we output, we're pretty minimalist with very few possessions, we love to make whatever we need and DIY if we can, we like self sustainable technologies etc etc. I know a self sustainable lifestyle involves a whole array of things more than that but we're very confident in heading down that direction since we're already taking steps to be self sufficient at home.

With 10K there is land around the place you could buy
It's not ideal land but it is land and it's workable.

I'm in a similar spot as you guys just minus the $10K. Would love that.
A few years back was in the exact same spot.
I think you're lucky enough to not yet have your spirit broken by the world.
And hopefully that doesn't happen.

I cant give advice though. If I could I wouldn't be in the same position.

Have seen some cheap blocks in the 15-20k range but they're bush/lifestyle blocks and I don't think it's legal to live permanently on them. Although I'm sure it isn't hard to pull a dodgy if one wanted to get away with it. But we don't want to risk it. :S Other than that we've seen a couple small blocks in small towns waaaay out in the sticks. They don't seem very private as they're in town but I guess they are workable as you say. Thanks though Ace, our spirit is strong at the moment as were going nuts here in Sydney, itching to get out there to meet others, trusting the universe in the process and seeing where our fate lies.

If we do ever find a plot and have the room we'll definitely hit you up.

On a bit of a sidenote (but slightly related) how exactly does someone who is young and broke afford to travel? I'd love to. I've always wanted to. But I can't travel. I can barely afford to live half the time. Let alone drop everything and somehow afford the travel costs to actually get around somewhere.

And as for the farm life being tough. At least if you are constrained or struggling its probably for a reason ie to feed yourself/survive.
So much of modern society just feels really pointless. maybe thats why Nibbana is looking to be self sufficient too?

There is quite an initial investment. We already both have dual sport motorcycles(cross between a dirt bike and road bike) and were planning to tour the east coast up to the northern most point and down to tassie and eventually the rest of Australia stealth/guerrilla camping along the way at rest stops or whatever secluded bushy location we can find. Also there's a lot of people offering up couches and guest rooms for free or for work on a website called Couchsurf, there's a good referencing system which can help you screen out people that you may not want to stay with... but yeah that's another option for a place to stay, we think it will be an incredibly valuable resource, for meeting people along the way and also getting a good shower or two in.

We've worked out that you can do it pretty cheap so long as you're willing to give up the luxuries of modern day traveling such as sleeping in a well insulated heated room in a comfy bed, eating variegated food cooked in a well stocked kitchen, shitting in a bush, showering every day etc hahahaha. Much easier if you have a reliable vehicle too. But yeah we've found that our hiking/bushwalking gear will provide pretty much everything we need to live fairly comfortably out there on the go. (tent/hammock, sleeping bags, alcohol/wood/gas stove, solar shower etc)

Or as Anodyne said you don't need much money to travel Asia if that is your desire.

There are ( a few) intentional communities about ( at least 2 in the northern rivers region) the require $0 investment to join.

One of which requires monthly levies of $50 from each community member enough to cover rates, stock the pantry with basics etc, the second i am unsure?

They both require you to provide your own accommodation and help in the functioning of the community. Both are by invitation only, skills, knowledge and enthusiasm are the prerequisites.

There are also moves afoot to precipitate a web of independent but interconnected series of intentional communities that would not necessarily require large cash investments by members. But would allow the free movement of people (and hopefully plants) between community sites.

Having said all that, there are as many options out there as there are people on these lands, so explore.

Edited to mention that a friend has just moved into the community mentioned above with a $8k investment to build her cottage and install a small solar system

And explore we shall! These sort of communities sound great and we're very keen to get out there to meet people involved in such projects to learn more about how we can perhaps get involved. Hope your friends set up goes smoothly. :) Was wondering if you could give any advice as to how we might meet people relevant to such projects? Gotta just get out there and meet people eh?

IMO the best thing you guys can do Is buy a half decent 4wd van, think Mitsubishi starwagon. Set it up with solar, fridge, rain catching tarp etc and go and live out in the bush, treat the bush as your land, as soon as your out the city you can live for free. Follow the seasons, work is so easy to find up North in the winter, you'll be living in a van so all those wages soon stack up, do this for a few years and decide where you want that block of land, or just keep roaming around. You'll meet a world of interesting people and see the best parts of this amazing country.

Pretty much what we want to do, just maybe not with a van although it is a consideration. Sounds like an amazing and free way to live.

I want to get my own land to run in my own personalised permaculture model too but I haven't come very far towards that goal yet.

You can change career at any time, study at any stage of your life. Whatever you do now you don't have to do it for any longer than you need to. You can do multiple things at once if you feel like it. While you are figuring out whatever achievements or awesome things you want to apply your life to you may as well look around you and enjoy it until whatever those goals are strike you, I think your current plan sounds great

We hope you achieve that goal of yours BassCompound! :)

Thank you for the advice, we certainly agree. We know it may sound stupid but everyone is so sold on "careers" nowadays and we don't want one, not now, maybe not ever? Hopefully we find our way, just have to leap into it I suppose.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The plan for now is to just "Find the others." While expanding our knowledge and learning whatever we can about the lifestyle we wish to pursue. Saving money as we go. Planning to tour the east coast before the end of the year, really going to have to do it on a budget... but the worse thing that can happen other than us crashing and dying is that we return home right? :S A large desire to learn more about Aboriginal culture is in us so that's going to be a huge part of our travels. Really hope to meet some members from this board someday too, maybe on our travels, but definitely soon!

Still open to advice and alternatives. :)

I guess we kind of know what we have to do though. Thank you everyone that has posted for the advice! Sorry for the odd sequencing of words and sentences everybody.

Edited by Nibbana

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You guys sound great. Attitude is everything. I reckon once you get amongst it things will fall into place.

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Hey buddy,

If you wanted to check out the bush and want to check out central NSW pm me and we can chat about it.

I'm staying about an hour east of Dubbo.

LOTS of land to check out.

Edited by 11010490
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There are a few communities around Australia that accept folk like you for free or a max $10,000 for 1 ha.

Google "The Ringing Cedars Communities".

As an aboriginal descendant I am mortified by the thought of having to slave for 30+ years so I can buy a bit of my own country to call home. All Australians deserve a piece of their motherland Australia for perpetuity.'

Free Land For All. This is a petition I have started to petition our government to release land for the creation of family domains. 1ha each for perpetuity with the right of home burial. 3m easements between property's. As described in "The Ringing Cedars".

Land Lotto Australia will be the avenue to fairly allocate the lands by lottery to interested parties and raise the money necessary for administration and land purchases.

Why has no one heard of this yet?

I am too scared of being put in prison for having alternate views or worse murdered. I too live in isolation and have hit nothing but traumas these last few years. Oh yeah I have those parents too! So no support there!

If people are truly interested in living free, please pm me with some encouragement to continue my work to free our people from forced debt. I am really struggling to complete this on my own :(

FREE LAND FOR ALL = FREEDOM FOREVER

There are no other answer to national security, food shortages, food quality, soil erosion, poisonous monocultures, clean water, nuclear dumping, pollution, equality, foreign ownership, raising happy families etc.

No point just saving myself if my neighbour is still unhappy.

:wub: Miss Lou Lou

post-13488-0-00445500-1454367479_thumb.j

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