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ace1928

University Is Driving Me Insane And I See No Other Option

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This right here sums up uni as a whole

http://www.buzzfeed.com/abagg/this-honest-university-commercial-will-make-you#.mbGAaQO35

What do I get out of it?

well... I get journal access. Hooray.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-25/scott-selling-science/5043620?topic=health

oh...

Well... I dunno. Maybe if I ever get transported 60 years back in time my knowledge might be up to date?

Oh and I get this sick piece of paper at the end which pretty much wont get me a job unless I know someone anyway!

But that requires a whole heap of ass kissing that I just can't muster.


Anyone have any sustainable alternatives? Kind of just want to be in a position where life is at least a little enjoyable
I'm sure many of you are in that same spot though.

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What do u enjoy doing?

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To get anything out of University, (which I didn't), you need to take advantage of the networking. Yes, this means getting involved in extra-curricular activities, ass kissing, volunteering, and making connections. Its very obvious that some students do this, and the whole thing bugged me, but the opportunities are there to make these connections that lead to jobs.

Now, if you van't bring yourself to go through this charade, (I couldn't) then Univerity will merely provide you with a bit of paper, a nice hex debt, and life-long email spam post-graduation. If you are studying something you are genuinely interested in, it can be rewarding, but you can actually study and rsearch anything these days without neccesarily needing to be at University. A lot of journals are available at the publicly accessible University libraries, and lectures are open to all, not just students.

Incog's question is the most important however. What are you passionate about? Until you can answer this genuinely, it is perhaps not wise to invest your money in University. Travel, work, get lessons from the university of life, and then commit to something when your ready.

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Ok I know what I'm passionate about that's not a problem
So I am studying that and am finding that the university is outdated.

I've tried volunteering, ass kissing, making connections etc. and all it has ended up doing for me is fuck all. I don't have the coin to go out to all of these balls and social get togethers etc. so that makes it pretty damn tough to begin with.

Additionally how does one travel around the place if there isnt even any money or work to begin with?
If I had the money I'd be setting myself up on a bit of land producing a variety of different things to then sell and keep myself funded.
Big problem. How the fuck are you supposed to get land if it's damn near impossible to get work unless you just so happen to know some entitled wanker who can give you a job?

Not ranting at you guys btw. Appreciate the feedback. Just pissed off at the whole thing.

I've considered changing degrees before but still feel as though that will land me in a similar situation anyway.

Really disillusioned because I thought I'd be going to an institution that encourages learning and critical thinking and endeavours to be as up to date as possible.
I was totally wrong. I'm another number in a list of numbers that provides an insane amount of coin to a business so that it can fund the cushy lives of a few people. The curriculum is outdated but "standardised" (so it must be sweet right?) and any critical thinking contrary to what they've specifically taught you (even if it has, since the 60s, been proven wrong) will be penalised pretty fucking harshly.

It is a joke

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If you can stand the place, or find it more palatable than outside at least, you collect more pieces of paper, do some research (where you finally approach the cutting edge of knowledge), and eventually they give you a job. Admittedly, it takes a depressingly long time to get a permanent position at a uni in Australia these days - but there are some amazingly shit jobs in the private sector, so it's kind of relative. Uni isn't always less insane once you work there. But I comfort myself by remembering that I'm doing better than 11 years ago - when I was holding eviction at bay by working as a wine telemarketer - now that was a depressing job.

True about the pieces of paper and jobs - and this applies to almost all pieces of paper at the moment - mine included. So many people have degrees they are less rare and hence less valuable in differentiating you from the crowd. But in many industries and areas if you are going for a job where most of the applicants have a degree, and you don't, you are going to struggle.

Of course, degree or not, if you are in the wrong industry in 10 years time, you will struggle anyway as automation starts to ramp up. From what I recall of your interests, you are safer than most.

The closest I've managed is to have a job that gives me the shits, but to live frugally enough so that I only need to do it 3 days a week to get by. Trouble is, I'll be renting forever if I don't change what I'm doing. Not that it's a problem, but my eccentric retreat to the country isn't going to fund itself. Would love to work for myself - but I don't have your entrepreneurial spirit :) - in any case, the road from start-up to financial security looks pretty long and rough to me.

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Worst comes to worst, use your bachelors to get a job teaching English over seas. Theoretically you could travel and meet interesting people from every walk of life until you die.

I'm studying neuroscience, hope to go into research or public health after post grad, but if that doesn't work out, traveling for the rest of my life is a pretty good alternative.

Mind you, I don't have responsibilities like mortgages or kids so its easy for me to see it like this.

Either way, you get out of it what you put on I guess.

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Wine telemarketing does suck a lot.
Was less stressful though lol

Reading alot of this kind of makes me feel like im not even cut out for society. Makes me wonder why I picked uni in the first place
If I'm going to be struggling so long doing things that are a waste of time I should have just stuck with working in a pizza shop.

Volunteering hasn't given me shit except for the fact that I wasted 3 months over summer that I probably could have achieved something in.
Asking questions has only gotten me into trouble.
Being enthusiastic has gotten me told to sit down stop asking questions and just wait like the rest of the class.

As for travelling the world teaching english you can do that without a degree. If I got to the point of choosing that after however many years in university I'd be hating the world harder than I already am.

Sorry for the depressing nature of these posts. Honestly don't really have anywhere else to rant about it and not many people to rant to about it that aren't going through the same shit or just don't care.

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Is there any way you can just do what your passion is by yourself? no need for outdated degrees and miss-facts if you intend to work for yourself. I threw out all my papers years ago.. no resume etc anymore.. THANK GOD. I don't intend to ever work for another person as long as i live. only for myself.

That will end being disrespected, subject to offensive policy's, underpaid etc. etc. etc. people dont respect what they have, when they have it, too bad, I'm gone.

I'm yet to see anything "smart" come from a uni..

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Anyone have any sustainable alternatives? Kind of just want to be in a position where life is at least a little enjoyable

Yeah, I hear you. I've been there myself but not sure what to say to make it better for you. Sometimes it takes a while for things to work out.

The first time I went to university, I didn't quite make it halfway through. It took me quite a while to pay off the debt too. I bumbled around for several years after that working here and there never being recognized for my true worth. Doing my share of partying though.

It struck me one day what I should do and returned to university and pursued a very different course of study. Most of my earlier studies were accepted toward my new degree requirements which made my new degree aspirations easier to obtain. It turns out that this time I really excelled and I found an acceptable job right away.

That's how it worked for me. It doesn't mean that it will work the same for you. I guess what I'm trying to say is hang in there and try to enjoy life along the way. Don't get yourself too bogged down in new commitments that would interfere with a career change in the future if you so desire.

Good luck and best regards!

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Reading alot of this kind of makes me feel like im not even cut out for society.

I've often thought the same thing. The only times I really feel I belong and fit in are when I'm alone with my partner or hanging out with you lot (preferably at Horus's place :worship: ). I don't expect to fit into society, consequently my expectations for work are similar. I don't expect work will be great - in fact if I get my dream job, I'll be very surprised - I just expect it won't constantly shit me to tears (and I'm usually right).

I have heard similar things from some other students in STEM-related degrees regarding questions and enthusiasm. For what it's worth, I'm happy when my students ask me difficult (or even insane) questions. As a scientist, you'd probably make a pretty good philosopher :)

All of that said, if degrees at the same uni can be different, then degrees at other unis may well be more different again. I can only speak for my own area, but I know that things are taught differently around the country and overseas. The world is a big place - don't convince yourself that our own little corner is indicative.

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perhaps your degree is being offered as a MOOC (massively open online courseware) where you can just study the concepts in your own time and focus on other things rather than having to attend lectures/tuts/labs etc.

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If you have a clear vision about what you want to do, think seriously about what is necessary to make it a reality. University is a closed bubble; in order to do things within the University system they will make you jump through hoops A, B, C to get to D, regardless of how relevant A,B,C are to D. I can tell you that after finally working up the courage to leave the University bubble, set up my own lab, and do my own research, I have discovered the bubble doesn't apply to the outside world. If you have good ideas, they are good, whether or not you have a degree to go with them. Investors judge startups on the idea, not the CV line that says you have a degree. Science degrees are a dime a dozen now anyway, they give you a broad overview of concepts, but won't be particularly useful in any one area. Choose an area, research the shit out of it, develop an idea that has market potential, and make it reality.

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If you were in the US, I would say forget about University and pursue something in the Unionized Building Trades or Nursing fields.

Work every day in a 4-5 year Apprenticeship & turn out as a Journeyman knocking down serious money plus Benefits, medical, dental yada yada. Pick the right building trade & never have to worry about a job ever again

A good buddy joined the Operating Engineers union & while still an apprentice got certified for Tower cranes. He can get a job anywhere in world & is in high demand. His wife was in the top 10% of a 2 yr Nursing program, was immediately hired upon graduation with a $5000 signing bonus. Four years later they have the down payment on a $600,000 home.

The quicker you get on the ladder, the faster you're going to be able to climb it, even if it means starting out on the bottom rung.

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What's your degree Ace1928? Even general area/field, if you don't want to be specific. It may help to give some context.

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Bachelor of biotechnology is what I'm doing

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That does not sound like any reputable university I would like to study at. If you aren't being challenged in the right way, change unis., you can apply to get advance standing for the units you have completed at your current institution if you transfer.

Do what you enjoy, not what will "potentially" earn you the most money.

I am studying a bachelor of science, majoring in environmental science and (as the name suggests) archaeology. If I had a dollar every time someone asked me what job I want at the end of it I would be a rich man. I have no job in mind, I just love studying the material. As long as the job at the end of it relates to either of my majors I will be a very happy guy.

I think you also have to lower the expectations of what jobs you can enter into as a graduate. As zelly pointed out, you have to expect to start at the bottom.

Just do what you enjoy; that is what life should be about.

Edited by archaeologistintraining
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Ace..

I'm very sad to read about your school environment, angry too.

Perhaps lodging complaints will get some updated materials or improve the style of teaching.

But that really sucks that your great attitude is scorned and tossed aside.

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Exactly what archeologistintraining said. I'm studying marine science, environmental management and sustainability and am loving it and the people I'm coming in contact with. I cant imagine being penalised for questioning anything. That is terrible. I had to laugh about the if I had a dollar comment with regards to jobs, that and how much money do you think you will earn, it worries me how many people are motivated by just fuckin money.I spent over twelve years as a Comms tech and hated just abut every fuckin year of it, the money was ok...but it wasn't worth waking up every morning saying I hate my bloody life. I stand by the do what you are passionate about thing.

Edited by nut
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Hi Ace,

Some general thoughts from me - please don't take this as me having a go at you, that is not my intention, I'm just trying to stimulate some thoughts.

What do you want to do when you finish uni? I know it's hard to think about at this early stage but it really needs to be done early so you have something specific to work towards. The days of assuming that just because you have a degree you will get a good job (or any job related to you field) are well and truly over I'm afraid. Science jobs are highly competitive now. Which kind of sucks because by the time you've done K-12 and then say 4 years of uni, you find that for your 16+ years of continuous education (20+ if you're silly enough to do a PhD lol) that you'll be lucky to get a job of even below average pay, when that guy from school who left at 16 years old to do an electrical trade probably has his own business by now, drives around in a brand new car, maybe has bought a house, and is on $150K/y plus. Or the guy who got a job mining for a few years is ready to comfortably retire.

But we don't do it for the money, do we! We do it because we have a passion for science and want to spend the time we are at work (35% of our waking hours for the next 50+ years) doing something stimulating and exciting.

When I was doing my undergrad I did often struggle to find a connection between what they were teaching and what I thought would be useful later on. It can appear (and there often is) a disconnect between what you are taught and what you need to learn for a particular career path. But how can this be avoided in first year lectures with maybe 400 people in attendance? It can't, they have to be general. It;s best to think of uni (and any education really) as learning how to learn, how to think critically. Because at the end of the day, if life most of the teaching is teaching yourself. Learning how to learn makes that process more efficient.

So think about what you hope to get from doing a degree. If you have a passion for discovery and research and want to spend every day learning something new, then I say stick with it for a while, many people find they start becoming more comfortable as they reach 2nd/3rd year and start to refine what exactly it is they may want to do with their life. On the other hand, uni and research in generally is really just a big game, you have to enjoying playing the game if you want to succeed. But that game is certainly not for everyone, and I think it is absolutely wrong to consider that uni is the best solution for most people. If you really don't think it is for you then that's perfectly fine, there are certainly plenty of other ways to have a fulfilling and engaging career, and contribute back to society, than tinkering in a lab and writing papers all day.

But it really depends on what you want out of life. It's your choice. And every if you chop and change for your whole working life, then so what? Do what you want to do and what makes you happy, but expect that finding your niche will take a long time, because for most people it does.

I assume that we are at the same uni. If you would like to see what I do post-degree (some is biotech, most is a blend of tech/nanotech/nanoengineering/chem/physics) then please feel free to send me a PM and I can meet you and show what I work on. At least it would be one example of a job a sciency degree can lead to if you chose to stay on that path.

It's often very hard work for less pay than I would like but if I had to name just one good thing about a job in science, it's that I am never, ever bored!

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^ I second that nomination. Them was some purty, sense makin words they was!

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Alice speaks the truth on this ace - man knows what he's talking about and I reckon you would get a lot out of talking with him and seeing what he does.

I also have to agree & sympathise with archeologistintraining and nut. Doing undergrad, honours and a PhD in philosophy, can you imagine how many times I was asked 'what are you going to do with that?' (Not to mention the 'fries with that' or taxi-driving jokes, and the 10 years it took my parents to accept that I was never going to be an engineer).

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