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Sallubrious

My 9 year old son has been watching DMT vids

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My son has developed a sense of curiosity that seems to have no bounds. A few weeks ago he was watching those spiral animations that give a distorted perception of spacial awareness when you look away and see a distorted perspective & other perceptual modification themes. I don't place any restrictions on his web surfing, but I restrict his access to social media where he and his siblings could meet strangers. I really want his imagination to take him wherever it might lead.

A few days ago I caught him watching a vid about "things you didn't know" or something to that effect and one of "things" was DMT and how people that have had DMT see aliens and entities ect. It triggered a series of questions that I wasn't really prepared to answer - I wasn't expecting to give the "drug talk" until he was in high school.

Anyway today I caught him watching The Spirit Molecule by Strassman, he really seems to have a genuine interest in hallucinating after watching some of the perceptual modification vids.

Tonights line of questioning - from him, was all about hallucinating. I was really taken aback, but I couldn't lie to him, so I just answered his questions objectively and tried not to put too much of a negative or a positive spin on things, but I was biased to the negative side to try to discourage him from perusing it further . He really wanted to know if people see aliens or elves when they take drugs. I mean what do you tell a 9 year old kid wanting to know about hallucinating ?

Anyway it turned into a fairly productive conversation where I educated him on the dangers of backyard manufactured drugs and now he understands that some people he knows will be taking drugs at some stage. He also knows he has the right to decide if he wants to go down the same path and looking around the neighborhood he can see the results of drug abuse.

Now he knows what a bad trip is and he also knows what ego death is. He still thinks he's an expert on the subject of hallucination based on a few youtube vids, but hopefully I've inspired a healthy respect.

Where do I take him from here ?

Edited by Sally
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I was a very curious child, had a 5 year older brother, so sometimes I was able to sit in on stories i probably shouldn't have been able to hear, no internet to find things out from though, only able to listen to others talk.

I was very curious about tripping and altered states, how my parents would go mushroom hunting and tripping etc.

My parents would generally start talking about it then they would become aware that they were talking to a child and tone it down, and say I shouldn't be learning about this as i was too young.

I imagine it would be a bit harder to limit a child's learning potential in this age of internet.

I think teach him about who he should be having these discussions with? Don't really want him asking teachers at school about these topics, might shine a bad light onto you.

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You could also direct him into more natural outlets like meditation or lucid dreaming. Free and can provide endless hours of exploration.

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Theres a book I like called Conscious Dreaming by Robert Moss that is pretty easy to read and pick up the concepts. Using your dreams to gain insight into your life and how to go back into your dreams and interact with them. Its been a while since I read it though and you probably should go through it to see if its kid friendly. He's an australian author so imagine you could find it in your local library.

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It's a weird situation to be in, I don't want him to be be a druggo, but I don't want to lie to him or put a negative spin on things that he might realise as BS a few years down the track.

It's only only a small part of his focus but over the last few nights it's come to a head. He's been watching vids about the trans dimensional properties of the higgs boson, so anything that projects itself somewhere else is a reasonable prospect to him at the moment.

I blame Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory and the Periodic table I pinned up next to his bed when he was 6.

Edited by Sally
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Sounds like hes a smart kid, you should be proud, not worried. You are taking a balanced approach, which I feel is best as you have an open communication. Look at it this way. Kids are going to be curious, they are going to explore and take risks. If you push the negatives and foster a judgemental attitude towards these things out of worry, then the kid may experiment anyways, but keep it secret. It's better to have that open communication that you seem to have, so you can always know what he's going through and he feels free to talk with you without fear of disappointment or judgement. Parental expectations inevitably create secrets, it's best to drop any expectations and allow them to feel secure.

The suggestions of meditation and lucid dreaming are quite good ideas. Some kids and myself included, lack the patience and attention span to properly meditate, so there are useful aids to assist the undisciplined mind. There is safe technology like binaural beats with headphones to entrain brainwaves to alpha/theta states to assist meditation. I've used these to great success, I could even upload some flac files to Dropbox or something if you wanted. Using binaurals has helped me quiet the mind chatter and even taught me to attain meditative states without needing them.

Lucid dreaming is not something you can really teach, but I've got my kids to look for their hands in their dreams as a technique to become aware of a dream and take control of it. This has had limited success in conquering nightmares, giving them a some confidence in the dream world. So far it's only worked for my 6 year old son, but he hasn't been able to control his dream, only to see his "wobbly hands" and become aware he is dreaming and therefore stop being scared.

Good luck to you, sounds like you are doing a fine job.

Edited by Conv3rgence
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You are amazing and so is your boy Sally.

Curiousity sprouts up where it will, the main thing is keeping those lines of communication and gently acknowledging the importance/validity of this line of study without letting it entirely dominate his focus.

Reinforce that understanding such things is a lifelong journey and while he might be riveted now, it will likely come in waves, he is v young to be so into it already and may need reminding of this tentatively at times.

Remember he cant un-know what is learnt so go slowly, indulge that fervent curiosity with information you deem low risk and reliable, and perhaps if it seems possible/appropriate - to some extent steer his interest away from entheogens and towards herbal medicine in general.

tonics, dream herbs, relaxing teas, immune boosters... entheogens can wait and any plant-based learning now will be a grand addition to future work if he chooses to continue with that into adult life.

Ka pai Sally. You got this.

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Kids that age should be well aware that people each have their own point of view - the idea of entire subjective realities (& how malleable they are) could be built from that. Once you understand that your view of the world is just an idea that you've built inside your head, it becomes easier to understand how you might perceive massive changes (eg visual hallucinations) from small changes occurring inside your head. I was obsessed with all altered states from a very young age (around 4yrs), and there are plenty of non-drug demonstrations like hypnogogic images, optical illusions (& auditory illusions, they're called "ghost notes" or something- I'll try to find out later), eye "floaters", and the altered states you experience from fatigue & hunger, which can all be used to build on that idea. If you can accept that pressing on your eyeballs causes you to see flashing lights, it's pretty easy to understand the idea that molecules pressing directly on receptors in your brain might cause you to see more complex things like elves. That's just how I approached it though, because I like scientific explanations for stuff. Sounds like a cool kid! :)

edit, "difference tone" was the name of those auditory illusions I was talking about earlier (see, it sounds just like "ghost notes", lol). See Mal Webb for more educational beatboxing & yodelling about acoustical physics (and various other topics such as water bears) - he plays at folk festivals & things sometimes.

Edited by Anodyne
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In some ways it's great he's discovered this side of life while he's still young enough to want to talk to you about it. You have the chance to have a dialogue that I missed out on, with the perspective and wisdom of someone who actually knows what they are talking about. I don't know you or your son, but I'm sure he'll appreciate honesty in your responses.

You don't have to supply him with information, but you can give honest answers, if that makes any sense?

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I was 10 years old when I began chroming. Hallucinating became almost an addiction in itself that set me on a downward spiral for the next 7 years of my life.... If i was not on the streets with a can of paint I was usually in the HDU.... My parents are good people, well known in the NQ alternative community. I knew they took psychedelics and what psychedelics were at a very early age, saw my mother forage for shrooms, smoke salvia with the some "legal high guy" that traveled with us when she worked the spirit of the earth festivals in the mid 90s... Even with my open minded, loving, caring family I managed to completely fuck myself up beyond repair. All started with an innocent curiosity about hallucinating and 5 minutes researching the easiest way to do it.... Watch that kid :/

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Thanks for that angle lofty ;-)

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It would seem with his age and his angle that the parental response is likely to draw him towards a more responcable pathway than some of us.

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Your kid has an interest/understanding of perception which is pretty intelligent. Get your hands on a great yoga book (like A systematic course of tantric techniques by Satyandanda) and practice with him.

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I think if my kid was asking questions like that I would talk about the drugs but also talk about hallucinations separate from drugs. Pick up a basic psychology textbook and look at vision and perception. There are heaps of eye/brain tricks like the impossible triangle, The spinning ballerina (two that come to mind) hallucinations can happen when your tired, with poor vision, injury and illness. There is heaps of material out there that would further nourish this curiosity. Ever wonder why clouds look like things? Is that a hallucination? Is a dream a hallucination? What about blind people?

I think its good to have an open mind but don’t leave the door blowing off the hinges!

We all need a solid foundation of reality, especially when young – it provides a sense of security and stability. I personally would be very careful about not providing your own explanation of hallucinations and reality.

Edited by watertrade
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When i was about 9 i thought the saying "Seeing pink elephants" wasn't a metaphor when drunk. I can probably attribute this to my current day curiosity...

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Educate him

Pro's and cons so he can make an informed choice

 

A lot of hippies around these type of boards think all plant based drugs are magical and healthy and shit

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This is an old thread. The lil guys probably around 12 right now. I bet he's doing McKenna style lectures for his class in school 

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12 yr old lectures in a McKenna type voice.." So you see the problem here is the Principal,.........if we just got rid of him, then the teachers..... and the students would be forced to fend for themselves....... and creativity would abound as the overinflated male ego is flushed down the toilet. There would be no more head honcho who's job it is to make everything go as slowly as possible, maintaining the status quo, and of course maintaining his or her cushy pay packet. 

With the principal removed, the rest of the faculty would be free. Free to survive, flourish or die. It wold be Darwinian education. They'd be free to create whatever mode of education they see fit as applicable to their students. Sure, there would be a period of upheaval and chaos with no-one at the helm, so to speak, but that would give way to a new paradigm where the teachers are enabled to teach their students with effortless appropriate action, moving back to a Greek style of education, far more intimate than the Roman/British/Overlord style system that we have today, that is dripping with Testosterone and really needs to just be gotten rid of....."

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My kids are 10 and 11 and they have already asked me about drugs. The media is awash with drugs and sex and it's inevitable that they will be unwittingly exposed.

I just deal with it honestly. I tell them exactly what the drugs are and what they do to people. I've told them that I believe that MJ should be legal for adults, that it is dangerous for growing brains. I tell them that alcohol is very dangerous and addictive, that crystal meth and crack are extremely dangerous and should be avoided at all costs. I've told them that DMT and mushrooms are medicines that should be used with great respect by responsible adults who have researched and understand the real risks involved, not party toys.

My kids have asked me why drugs are illegal and I've explained about the problems that caused prohibition and the further sociological/political issues that created such a novel way to make a "war on drugs" and keep people in line.

Just the truth. The whole truth, not a selective blinkered half truth.

That said, I negate any questions about my habits by reminding my kids that I am drug tested regularly at work, which I am. When the time comes they'll figure me out.

I hope one day that if they ever choose to use any substance they will listen to my advice, but if they choose not to that will be fine as well. I have to accept the things I cannot change. I would even share experiences with them when they are adults, if that was what they wanted. But I would not encourage them. It's a personal choice and being such an influential figure in their lives I would not positively assert it, that would be remiss of me.

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So much better ways of dealing with drug use then what i got which was Drugs are bad. Don't take them.
And i never did :lol:
Sarcasm aside there blunt rhetoric didn't gel with what i perceived at a young age. My dad lived in Unit block 70metre from Cabramatta train station 20-30yrs back when it was smack central. sorry Smack Central.
I still remember being 10 or 11 walking on the foot bridge to the other side of the station with my dad and 4 or 5 people were asking me if i was "all right" or if i need something.  I just thought they were being friendly but didn't understand what kind of something they were inquiring if i required.  So i asked my dad he's matter of factly said they are trying to sell you Heroin. Probably should of clicked with all the thousands of discard syringes in Cabra, the people past out in his build's stairwell most of the time, occasionally with the needle still in their arm.  And definitely no playing in the sand pit at the  park.  Its just an dark joke to most user disposing of dirty needles in the nearest Playground sandpit but they spared no sandpit or playground.

ahh the Naivety of youth.
Still spins me out they were hitting me up to buy drugs. Did many 10yr olds go on a family outing with a parent to score smack often enough it wasn't a silly thing to ask or was it more if you don't ask it might be the one sale you don't make.

Seen people sleep on the streets to get high, sell there bodies, O.D in the stairwell, One guy apparently had to get his legs aputated after going on the nod to long on a milk crate.
These didn't seem like things people would do if drugs were bad, there must be a good/enjoyable portion to them but they stayed to there Narrative that drugs are Bad and bad people take them.
So without some truthful seeming response to my questions i eventually tried pot and alcohol at 12-13 and they weren't Bad they were the salve to a awkward and difficult teenage year.

 

I don't regret my drug uses but i wish they had given me actual information like the poster's above. 

I do regret starting so young if i could do it again i'd wait till 18-21 to experiment.
Not try lots of hard and soft drugs before i finished my 16th year.

Hope all is well with your young ones they have better chance then most with parents who speak to them not down to them.

 

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