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Anodyne

Traditional tobacco curing techniques

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Ah Phaemon's dog, what a lovely story you bring, please pass the good doctor my regards

Your information is invaluable

Do you think tho, that there is even the slightest chance that the doctor's description of the elaborate process of tobacco curing is coloured due to his access to all the toys with teh blinkenlights? And extensive knowledge of the processes as they currently operate?

After all, tobacco was being grown, sold and used prior to teh blinkenlights

A colleague of mine's mum grew and cured tobacco as a farm crop in Europe in the 50s. Unfortunately the family went off the farm to the big city when he was very young, and the lady is since deceased.

He's trying to find the original document referencing the curing process she used so I can scan and translate it, but not sure about my chances

ie- is there some advantage to all this new fangled stuff? Or is it, overall and historically, really that complex?

( Also, there is the chance that my colleague's family left their farm because his mum was shit at growing/ curing tobacco and lost money on the venture. I doubt it tho. The farm had been in the family for a few generations and tobacco had been one of it's crops for that time )

Edited by Darklight

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Hello forum P'sDog here with words-of-wisdom from cranky old Pat Uri. Seriously since he's given up the pot he's been a
misery. If there was ever a case to legalise it, he'd be it. The Old Man has put up and build off some bad business over
last years with Cyclone Larry and Marcia, but 'Sasha' moving on, has really knocked him. That's what happens when you're
old but He will be back.
Anyway nice to meet you Anodyne - 'fraid new chum there ain't much "traditional" about smoking baccy and less about
Nicotiana tabacum, it hasn't been around long enough. See -What do you mean by "traditional"? 50 years? 100years? 200?
300? 400? 500? A millinia? Prehistoric? Dreamtime? Seriously tobacco hasn't been around that long.
There's about eighty species in Genus Nicotiana growing wild since prehistory in Australia and America, and only one
species isn't found in the wild, and that's N.tabacum. Seems it's an allotetraploid virilised hybrid of diploid mother
N.sylvestris and diploid father N.tomentosiformis, with a possible intermediate bit-on-the-side with N.otophora (I just
know what Elder Pat Uri taught me) These wild ancestors occur in Bolivia, but not together. How it hybridised, let
alone polypoided is anyone's guess - about as strange as how B.caapi and P.viridis got together.
N.tabacum marks human civilisation:- highland Mayans Tzeltal and Tzotzil of Mexico threw good seed along trails and "where
the spirit is strong it will grow" and looked for the pinkest flowers, to mash green leaves with lime for snuff and kept
in a special mini gourd. They called it Sayri meaning "nine times beaten" and considered it the "Male". The "Female" was
N.rustica Mapacho that they traded for, widely enough for the highest grade to be found in Trinidad by John Rolfe, of
Pocohontas fame. But those Carib people are pretty much extinct. Maybe the Spanish were in on crossbreeding, who knows.
"Smoking" comes from a near universal story about how the Great Spirit Holy Father Most High was so busy with creation
that he forgot to pack his baccy and now he was up in the sky couldn't do much about it. So he said to the lesser spirit
angels he'd get man to sacrifice tobacco to him by smoking it for the spirits to eat and they would listen to the prayers
of man. The clouds would see the smoke and tell the sky spirits.
Then there was the White Buffalo Woman that went like this:- two cousins from different tribes met up after years apart as
young braves on a vision quest. As much as they loved eachother, there were too many cultural differences and rivalry
would set in and they'd end up arguing and fighting. They hated it, but they couldn't help themselves bickering. So they
continued on in sulky silence, until they saw through a heat haze what appeared to be a white buffalo standing on a white
clay lens hill. As they approached the aparition changed into a tall statuesque woman dressed in pure white buckskin.
Then back into a buffalo and then back into a woman in a white outfit and decked with ropes of shining, white wumpam.
They decided it was a woman. One said, "Such a wonderful woman! I shall steal her and make her my wife!". The other
said, "No. See her fine clothes? She must be very important to her people, I will pay her my respect." Finally at her
feet they both realised she was an angel. She looked at them and said, "One of you has a hard heart and the other has a
tender heart - but I will not tell you which is which. Instead I will teach you how to keep your hearts and still keep
council together." She gathered up some white clay, fashioned a smoking pipe bowl and showed them how to make a calumet,
or peacepipe. Then she taught them to smoke and the rules of diplomacy and statesmanship for all Nations to obey. In one
variation or another this too is a universal story. The site itself is in the Great and Respect worthy Lakota People's
country and they allowed access to it for all tribes to send pilgrims to gather some clay for sacred pipes.
Quite a few native species were used for the smoking rituals, mixed with other herbs, like lobelia and deer's tongue.
Prime leaves were for trade and passed around and looked at for years before use. Lesser stuff was for chew and snuff, to
clean wounds, repel parasites, prevent food spoilage, purge medicine, sacrificed to a tree spirit for use of its wood,
thrown to a river spirit for successful crossing, etc. Often kept hanging - aircuring - on display in smokey dwellings
they became somewhat firecured, stretched out, folded, massaged and admired greasy fingers "sauced" them as well as
packing them in smoke tanned leather bags and medicine pouches. They were above all trading currency and spiritual
currency, passed on to the clan for a lot of time.
Annually keeping the flower tops and "suckers" (lateral and adventurous shoots) to maximise set leaf growth and store next
years seed, the seed separated, what was left - buds etc. - dried light bodied and brown and was massaged with a little
animal fat, precursor of modern glycerol, then packed into green hide bags that would shrink near the fire compressing the
material. They appreciated the mellow, woody, sometimes resiny flavour of the smoke. Mostly N.sylvestris here - the
woodland sweet tobacco.
Another traditional technique well worth mention comes from the Chickasaw people. They would chop down a sassafras tree -
yes, that sassafras! - and drill a vertical hole in the stump with a quartz crystal drill bit and bow saw to make a
"barrel". Then whittle a stick as a tight fitting piston mated to this barrel. Well fertilized N.tomentos and
.longiflora plants topped early at about eight big lug leaves were primed, picked and sauced in sweet berry mash, before
rolling tightly into a "stick" and packed in the stump "barrel". The piston was pushed in and heavy pressure applied with
a class 2 lever arrangement and heavy rock weight. At least a year, usually several, later the tobacco "stick" was
withdrawn having compressed and fermented in its own juices, and dried into a highly sort after black tobacco the Acadian
traders called Perique - because it looked and smelt like a "buhda" in our dialect. Good smoke that too - you find it in
"Three Nuns".
Gee! Folk. I think that's enough for now, I want to go have some lunch. Next time, I tell you a bit about what happened

next, with the white fellas and the black fellas baccy. OK.
P's Dog signing off. For Pat Uri and old mate Donkey Wang.

Edited by Pat Uri
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Hello forum P'sDog here with words-of-wisdom from cranky old Pat Uri. Seriously since he's given up the pot he's been a

misery. If there was ever a case to legalise it, he'd be it. The Old Man has put up and build off some bad business over

last years with Cyclone Larry and Marcia, but 'Sasha' moving on, has really knocked him. That's what happens when you're

old but He will be back.

Anyway nice to meet you Anodyne - 'fraid new chum there ain't much "traditional" about smoking baccy and less about

Nicotiana tabacum, it hasn't been around long enough. See -What do you mean by "traditional"? 50 years? 100years? 200?

300? 400? 500? A millinia? Prehistoric? Dreamtime? Seriously tobacco hasn't been around that long.

There's about eighty species in Genus Nicotiana growing wild since prehistory in Australia and America, and only one

species isn't found in the wild, and that's N.tabacum. Seems it's an allotetraploid virilised hybrid of diploid mother

N.sylvestris and diploid father N.tomentosiformis, with a possible intermediate bit-on-the-side with N.otophora (I just

know what Elder Pat Uri taught me) These wild ancestors occur in Bolivia, but not together. How it hybridised, let

alone polypoided is anyone's guess - about as strange as how B.caapi and P.viridis got together.

N.tabacum marks human civilisation:- highland Mayans Tzeltal and Tzotzil of Mexico threw good seed along trails and "where

the spirit is strong it will grow" and looked for the pinkest flowers, to mash green leaves with lime for snuff and kept

in a special mini gourd. They called it Sayri meaning "nine times beaten" and considered it the "Male". The "Female" was

N.rustica Mapacho that they traded for, widely enough for the highest grade to be found in Trinidad by John Rolfe, of

Pocohontas fame. But those Carib people are pretty much extinct. Maybe the Spanish were in on crossbreeding, who knows.

"Smoking" comes from a near universal story about how the Great Spirit Holy Father Most High was so busy with creation

that he forgot to pack his baccy and now he was up in the sky couldn't do much about it. So he said to the lesser spirit

angels he'd get man to sacrifice tobacco to him by smoking it for the spirits to eat and they would listen to the prayers

of man. The clouds would see the smoke and tell the sky spirits.

Then there was the White Buffalo Woman that went like this:- two cousins from different tribes met up after years apart as

young braves on a vision quest. As much as they loved eachother, there were too many cultural differences and rivalry

would set in and they'd end up arguing and fighting. They hated it, but they couldn't help themselves bickering. So they

continued on in sulky silence, until they saw through a heat haze what appeared to be a white buffalo standing on a white

clay lens hill. As they approached the aparition changed into a tall statuesque woman dressed in pure white buckskin.

Then back into a buffalo and then back into a woman in a white outfit and decked with ropes of shining, white wumpam.

They decided it was a woman. One said, "Such a wonderful woman! I shall steal her and make her my wife!". The other

said, "No. See her fine clothes? She must be very important to her people, I will pay her my respect." Finally at her

feet they both realised she was an angel. She looked at them and said, "One of you has a hard heart and the other has a

tender heart - but I will not tell you which is which. Instead I will teach you how to keep your hearts and still keep

council together." She gathered up some white clay, fashioned a smoking pipe bowl and showed them how to make a calumet,

or peacepipe. Then she taught them to smoke and the rules of diplomacy and statesmanship for all Nations to obey. In one

variation or another this too is a universal story. The site itself is in the Great and Respect worthy Lakota People's

country and they allowed access to it for all tribes to send pilgrims to gather some clay for sacred pipes.

Quite a few native species were used for the smoking rituals, mixed with other herbs, like lobelia and deer's tongue.

Prime leaves were for trade and passed around and looked at for years before use. Lesser stuff was for chew and snuff, to

clean wounds, repel parasites, prevent food spoilage, purge medicine, sacrificed to a tree spirit for use of its wood,

thrown to a river spirit for successful crossing, etc. Often kept hanging - aircuring - on display in smokey dwellings

they became somewhat firecured, stretched out, folded, massaged and admired greasy fingers "sauced" them as well as

packing them in smoke tanned leather bags and medicine pouches. They were above all trading currency and spiritual

currency, passed on to the clan for a lot of time.

Annually keeping the flower tops and "suckers" (lateral and adventurous shoots) to maximise set leaf growth and store next

years seed, the seed separated, what was left - buds etc. - dried light bodied and brown and was massaged with a little

animal fat, precursor of modern glycerol, then packed into green hide bags that would shrink near the fire compressing the

material. They appreciated the mellow, woody, sometimes resiny flavour of the smoke. Mostly N.sylvestris here - the

woodland sweet tobacco.

Another traditional technique well worth mention comes from the Chickasaw people. They would chop down a sassafras tree -

yes, that sassafras! - and drill a vertical hole in the stump with a quartz crystal drill bit and bow saw to make a

"barrel". Then whittle a stick as a tight fitting piston mated to this barrel. Well fertilized N.tomentos and

.longiflora plants topped early at about eight big lug leaves were primed, picked and sauced in sweet berry mash, before

rolling tightly into a "stick" and packed in the stump "barrel". The piston was pushed in and heavy pressure applied with

a class 2 lever arrangement and heavy rock weight. At least a year, usually several, later the tobacco "stick" was

withdrawn having compressed and fermented in its own juices, and dried into a highly sort after black tobacco the Acadian

traders called Perique - because it looked and smelt like a "buhda" in our dialect. Good smoke that too - you find it in

"Three Nuns".

Gee! Folk. I think that's enough for now, I want to go have some lunch. Next time, I tell you a bit about what happened

next, with the white fellas and the black fellas baccy. OK.

P's Dog signing off. For Pat Uri and old mate Donkey Wang.

Welcome back pat (if you ever left!)

Please keep up these posts whenever you get the chance, you sound like a legend. Ta

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Nee How! Many thanks for above: by reproducing Phaemon'sDog post it is forever frozen for him to edit out his terrible
spelling and grammar. No excuse with spellcheck! Ha! This thread has been printed and hardcopy wrapped around Master Pat
Uri's Iced VoVo biscuits in last week's food basket to his meditation cave in farC Q - that is not swearing - where he
resides for now. It would be wrong to disturb his sequestration as he contemplates higher spiritual matters - and WiFi in
mountain cave is pretty shit anyway.
I, fake Doctor Zhong Ki Wang advise that tobacco curing information must not be used by readers in Australia which has
world's strictest anti-tobacco laws profitable and plenty more foot to shoot itself through! Master Pat Uri, uses a more
colourful expression past posts to describe 'this Government's oversized organs causing instability, resulting in
criminal, even obscene, penetration'. His exact words are not medically comprehensible or anatomically possible to my
limited English background, but may still be there in a previous post, moderators permitting.
Allow me to update with legal changes since last time Master Pat Uri used this expression (that still all seem to protect
commercial interest monopolies, tax collection and nothing to do with consumer health and wellbeing):-
- Not even Master Pat Uri can say with confidence if nicotine is actually really legal, illegal, tolerated, unenforceable,
etc. Great Rock of Canberra -and mossy it is too- says in "ink-on-paper" legislation that nicotine possession is illegal.
Certainly police arrest people sucking on e-cigarettes of freebased nicotine - the most addictive form of the alkaloid.
Yet children can buy much laden chewing gum and other confectionary off shelves of Multi-international Supermarket Chains
as they can afford. Legally children can still smoke too, law only stops them buying tobacco.
- Living tobacco plants and seeds are banned, but authorities can not be bothered to destroy feral. Property owners can't
remove it for transport without authority and bale plate labels, cutting or poisoning the weed plants is illegal too.
(see down)
- ATO have finally "defined" two ancestor diploid and one polymorphic tetraploid spp. as the tobacco of commerce...so time
travellers beware of bringing these into the present (Master Pat Uri has suggested maybe ATO "googled" for their
research.)
- Unlicensed possession - what licenses? - of manufactured tobacco or to manufacture tobacco is illegal. ATO defines
"manufactured" when leaf is cut ("ragged", "shredded", "stripped", "shagged", "ribboned" in tobacconist speak) and so, by
extension, cultivated, harvested, culled, mowed or ripped from the ground to destroy it. It is "manufactured" if any
chemical substance is applied to the leaf (molasses, mu'assel, glycerol, sorbitol, honey, xylitol, liquorice,
acetophenone, etc. in tobacconist speak) and by extension, sulphuric acid, glycophos, 2,4D, any other herbicide to destroy
it.
In theory, colour cured, unstripped leaf hanging is not manufactured and such exempt. Truly last years Master Pat Uri has
flown between Australian states for FIFO jobs ("kidnapped") with kilogram "hands" of folded leaf ("ransom") in his
luggage. When luggage scanned airport customs and security officers concluded "it was some sort of vegetable" and freely
allowed passage.
In tradition colour cure leaf is not much cut anyway - he and his Elder other tribes ("enemies") mates treat these like
rare stamps or money notes - trading, swapping, admiring, stretching, folding, fingering them for their beauty, odour,
rarity, colour and perfection, and valuing them in an exchange rate known to them - years can pass before such are ever
consumed, and more fondled meantime the better. Seems this is one of few botanicals that withstands, improves, with such
intimate human contact. Sacred fire wood ash may be added before ceremonial ingestion - Elders may be particular what ash,
but potash is potash I think. Burnt shell ash too, but this can be severely caustic, you must learn air slaking, and it
tastes crap.
Snuff made from stalk (petiole, mid vein) should be exempt as ATO define leaf lamina only.
- International travellers may only carry <50g of foreign tobacco (or 20 cigarettes, or 2 cigars) into Australia - much to
amazement of all foreign and duty free tobacconists in the world who may not carry such tiny amounts for sale. Many
visitors are harassed into abandoning their carry on as that is easier for Customs than explaining laws properly,
honestly, accountably, transparently and in their language... Meanwhile illegal tobacco is smuggled into Australia by the
30t, 20' shipping container load (see below) - that is the real problem.
- On ATO's behalf Customs and Border Protection withhold ANY amount of tobacco-containing-material ordered online for
import into Australia until <$700/kg+gst+handling import duty is paid. This is regardless of packaging, or actual amount
of nicotine or tobacco present, they weigh all whole parcel to calculate excise. American chewing tobacco might only be
30% tobacco but an $8 item will cost +$200 duty. Halal "washed" moassel for shisha averages ~5% tobacco and never exceeds
0.2% nicotine but a $12 item will attract +$150 duty. Visitor guests from Near East have been so harassed by entry
officials they abandoned their few grams of 'dhoka' fearing violation of import law (they are naturally law abiding by
virtue) - Australian Customs and Border Security never bothered to explain to them plainly they were quite within their
rights to keep Arabic tobacco.)
Delighting in his practised trading art, Master Pat Uri organises online oversea tobacco buys to be delivered in grams'
intricately purchased, by:- suspended; part; FOP, FAC, COP, FAD, COD, COCC, FOT underwritten shipping terms; back;
cancelled; and etc. orders, with onshore clearing terms, and then suspending, abandoning or waiting until last moment of
demurrage, etc. to pay duty, in depreciated $AUD - and if Customs make one mistake, he instructs writ to sue with
litigation. A time consuming, nightmarish, logistical, bureaucratic chaos for minimally paid Custom's young warehousing
staff over a few dollars of tax revenue! ("Breath with me, come play my game, I'll test ya!" he sings.)
This, while Master Pat Uri has himself a good, fat black belly laugh in a remotest Queensland property, tending his
$multimillion mixed 'crops' and feeding excess imported cigars to his homicidal pet bulls for their tummy upsets from a
20' refrig container humidor stocked up over 40 years! (continued on, after side note.)
[side note. NB - note well, dear readers - A very serious point to this, Master Pat Uri's "in house" jokes to this, his
favoured plat-forum, aside:- presently Border Security seized-imposed-import-duty applies only to online tobacco, but
Federal Politicians plot, as you read this, to impose +$17% on ALL your online oversea purchases regardless of if items not
available in Australia: Feds pretence local market protection! Ha! All reminiscent of their Federal "Corrupt Rum Corps"
status past, profiting from guarding their little Island Gaol, import control and fleecing both man and mutton. (Beware!
Australia:- be very aware.) Perhaps Feds would have implemented it already except the $AUD is so weak the only drugs
worth smuggling in are cigarettes! "Boston" Tea Party, anyone?] Side note ends.
(Continued, from above.) Master Pat Uri builds a case proving Customs and Border Protection has not the infrastructure to
deal with one man and his personal quantities of imported tobacco presently - how will they cope with an entire Nation's
online import trading market? He hopes this will stall their money-grabbing plots and pursues it quietly, behind the
scenes, "'Majority' of the One"- and regardless of how many tax free boxes of foreign cigars Feds offer him from their
International Diplomatic Immune pouches to shut-up.
Imposed tobacco Import Duty means every piece of local feral "sheep dip" tobacco rubbish from the compost heap is now
worth ~$600/kg.
So alcoholic, porn-crazed, sex worker hiring, gambling addicted, anti-drug bigot and all so legally sanctified registered
voter "Greasy"Pete Phaemon - Clan Uri neighbour/unpaying tenant - has - in Master Pat Uri's words - "been busier than a
three balled tomcat on Viagra!" lately.
On a positive note now it affords his runaway, estranged 'dog' to get regular food and live in Brisbane city apartment
house, from which I post. ["Damn straight! I do - folks! I even got 3 toilets now! - kicking it up large style loud with
all da resident ready, party hearty Brissy bitches and dawgs non-stop banging- Yee!Ha!"...:- "P'sDog"] Mod Squad may
confirm mirror ip. and remind P's Dog of enormous list of chores yet to perform in farC Q for Master Pat Uri. However, on
Phaemon and his dog's behalf, many thanks ATO and Federal "Gubba Men" (dialect - I think - for "government") for this
enriching law and their party donation cheque is in the mail.
- Plain labelling of all 'commercial tobacco products' i.e. "smokes", is now mandatory - vendors may not promote or
acknowledge their wares for advertisement - legally enforced under-the-counter trading, that strangely contradicts the
first requirement of the law of contracts, i.e. open, public advertisement. (Master Pat Uri has claimed they're called 'tobacco products' because there is more genuine tobacco between his teeth than there is in a commercial cigarette.)
This political stunt has been a God send to counterfeiters, who have no longer to replicate patented packaging, and leave
no way that the end consumer can tell product is genuine.
When consumer complained occasional plain packaged item tastes different, blander, than previous original genuine packet,
authorities laughed in their faces to say:- that is the psychological effect of drab olive packet; the confronting images;
lack of point of sale advertising; erosion of self esteem; social outcasting; impoverishment; etc. the product knowing,
tax paying cigarette addict must now endure...While Government hope to collect >$20 for every packet sold presently. (I
continue after pertinent side note that follows.)
[side note:- Australian Feds made a great mutual backslapping and song-and-dance act over their brilliant idea to plain
label, when they stole the idea lock, stock and barrel from Canada and knew it was coming anyway. International tobacco
companies made a show of protest to compliment - it's an "Eton debate" game they have been playing for centuries having
resources to do so - and reduce their liability, for what other product can you sell knowing it causes cancer in exactly
the way it is meant to be used? yet, avoid compensating victims.
For last fifty years annual tax revenue from tobacco sales is more than Federal Government spends on Education, Health,
and anti-tobacco programs like Quit, combined. Over last twenty years as smoker numbers halved, but tax more than
quadrupled to rebalance loss in revenue and shortfall. Governments, since James 1st, have long learnt how to collect the
golden eggs of the golden tobacco, rather than kill the goose that lays them. At over $20 per unit, do you honestly think
they really want to extinguish the habit? or allow TSNA carcinogen reduced smokeless alternatives, like snus, snuff, e-
cigarettes, etc. from commercial sale?] Side note ends.
(Continued from above) Only when lost revenue was realized Government admitted >12%, and growing, Australian 'smokes' are
counterfeit and "chop-chop" is rarely ever local, but of /OBSCURED ON LEGAL ADVICE/ origin, 'criminal' (that is, not
Government approved) syndicates bypassing, in house, manufacturer's brand specific "chemical" adding and therefore ATO.
This is why "chop-chop" mostly appears as professionally flue cured, cut, blended, DNA exact, identical to oversea grown
commercial feedstocks - so untraceable - yet lacks genuine burning characteristics and flavour, it is same but
incompletely unmanufactured. Australian public persecution of legendary, non-existent local growers is "kill chicken,
scare monkey" for media spread claptrap. No commercial tobacco production in Australia, for decades. Police prosecution
of retailers the only mandate possessed in well orchestrated global, yet in house, conspiracy. Plus makes newspapers big
headlines for next to "Dope Fiend beats Senior to Death for Codral" or "Miley Cyrus wears bikini! Pictures inside". Ooo!
Ahh! Me buy, me read!
Premium, quality real tobacco can barely be bought in Australia - nothing beyond mid-strength available. Long
established, world renown, famous tobacconists refuse to comply with trivial law and repackage into ugly, substandard,
plain packaging. They are too proud to supply their tobacco in anything less than traditional, world recognised, high
quality formats of gold gilt banding, Spanish Cedar boxes, lithographed labels, pressed and water marked DOM auditor,
inspection stamps, appreciating investment etc. reflecting the quality assurance of their luxurious offerings and
distinguish from any pretender - and there are many. If they lose the tiny Australian market - so what? Their
patented, time honoured labelling is not - in spite of Federal ignorant "peasant" thinking - a "cheap" sales gimmick.
Nat Sherman asks if Australian Government would be proud for Treasury to use photocopies for $AUD banknotes:- after that's
all they are worth, presently. (Au.Fed.Gov. politicians can reply to him personally about this comment, care of the
American mafia - with full name and correct residential address, please, as he'll send personal representatives to sort
out your concerns. Capeesh?)
To buy real tobacco in Australia you must visit what few tobacconists still exist, on paltry profit margins and overworked
repackaging for Government compliance, knowing exactly what you want - no browsing allowed. Expect to see a couple of
plain clothed ATO detectives outside, "clocking" your face, purchase, license plates etc. and then racing into the shop
behind you to make sure not so much as a cigar cutter was left in sight...as if you were buying Sudafed or something...
(Master Pat Uri has a very funny, true story about travelling 800km to select some cigars on the very day of plain
labelling. It is about a select cigar that was hidden from public display and a lovely nude Valley stripper that was not
so hidden from public display:- we shall omit for now.)
- Low TSNA and carcinogen removed smokeless tobaccos are still banned from commercial supply in Australia, in spite of
medical evidence, but legends of oral cancer persist. Cancer has been attributed to use of dark, aged, firecured American
moist snuff "chew" - a few cases - but all cases also smoked cigarettes and cigars. Poschl studies find snuff less
carcinogenic than hardwood dust. Swedish snus must be freed of carcinogen before it is sold - there it is illegal to sell
anything proven to cause cancer, cannabis is a notably not banned, only smoking tobacco. Other ongoing studies have shown
snuff users have a lower incidence of contracting colds, rhinovirus infection and influenza - the studies are not
concluded yet.
Pity as snuff, snus and chew are closest to traditional use, by which American and Australian Aboriginal people have used
it for millennia. These people have never been consulted on the matter or invited to discussion - the laws just been
imposed on them.
Master Pat Uri is actually one of the greatest advocates of anti-smoking and thinks seeing a so-called shaman smoking
tailor made cigarettes habitually incredible and without taste. He shares, with other shaman curanderos, eg.
camalongueros, notion that cancer is physical manifestation of a bad "astral" parasitic "elemental" "spirit" attached to
human "aura" and preying, perverting or poisoning the personal "subtle energy field" by which DNA/RNA are activated and
guided for cell repair and cell replacement, and how the immune system "updates" its recognition of damaged cells and
pathogens in an ever changing environment. To blame it on one herb or another a gross over simplification.
Esoteric ideas, to be sure.
- We must conclude on something positive from present Australian situation and here it is:- Over taxed cigarettes means
that a genuine real cigar is just as affordable and closer to tradition.
Romeo et Juiletta (R&J) if you are a light smoker, White Owl if you are a nicotine head, Bolivar if your taste is somewhat
jaded by cigarette use, do not have to be smoked. Place the butt in your cheek and let the nicotine permeate, allaying
the need to smoke. When not in use, put it back, toe first, into the cigar tube it was supplied in. Eventually the soggy
end will have to the bitten off. This morsel, mixed with a little bicarbonate of soda, or ash, to freebase will have the
flavour return and you can continue to "chew". Really "chew" is a bite/squeeze and back into the cheek, you don't eat it.
When absolutely flavourless, spit it somewhere to dry it out and keep it. Master Pat Uri has instruction on how to make
such "washed" tobacco into shisha to sell to "Greasy"Pete.
For meditation, you are going to light the remaining cigar for a few puffs of incense - I know you will. If you can't make
a fire with fire sticks, use the sun's rays with a magnifying glass. Cigarette lighters aren't traditional - sacred fire
is handmade. Extinguish cigar by putting it back in the tube and capping. Carbon monoxide will extinguish it, and until
it does the remaining heat in the tube makes a fine moxa stick for stimulating acupuncture points.
Now in tube ash from the head will mix with the soggy toe alleviating the need for freebasing further. Just take it out
and continue in this way. The head will always stay capable of relighting.
In this way, the cigar will last days, even a week.
Keep the cigar tube as Master Pat Uri has instruction on how to make them into a handy, pocket herb vaporiser.
Legal even in Australia.
And so I end here and bow to you good forum people, may you pursue the Noble Path of wisdom with High blessings.
Xian-Qi Wang - Ghost Doctor - for Master Pat Uri.

Edited by Pat Uri
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Pat

I adore you unquestioningly and would love you to be the mother of my unborn child

One day I hope we shall meet and smoke fragrant tobacco together. You get to pick the brand/ cut/whatchacallit.

A mate bought me back a pack of Drum after an OS stint on the rigs about 20 years ago, can't remember what country it was from. Then was the only time I ever understood why tobacco was called fragrant in the old Edwardian books

And now you tell me there is a world of tobacco out there, and much to know, and people who know it.

Damn you eternally for describing temptations I am unlikely to ever be able to slake. Nice one, actually :D Love yer work.

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Pat

I adore you unquestioningly and would love you to be the mother of my unborn child

Come now Darklight - there must be some old, black fellas your way you can have sexual fantasies over? It doesn't just have to be old man Pat.

By the way - Pat Uri likes Cohiba Nicaragua in the modern stuff or Gurkha.

Donkey Wang's total knowledge of cigars could be written on one side of a cigarette paper with a crayon - R&J cigars are spelt Romeo y Julieta.

Seems I've been missing a very, very important point about all traditional tobacco - crucial to all nicotine sources.

Nicotine accumulation is very rare in all wild species, usually it is there in traces and nornicotine is the major alkaloid. Nicotine is a secondary alkaloid converted to the more toxic nornicotine and anabasine. The gene for the conversion is either silenced or absent in plants that have been artificially selected for cultivation - it is a recessive condition. When this mutation occurs the plant is less likely to fight off insect attacks and doesn't survive with competition of the convertors. Taking seeds from the wild will almost always be from the dominant convertor condition stock.

Human experimentation selected the nicotine accumulators and kept that strain going. Not just Nicotiana but Duboisia and Petunia as well. There's a pituri song about tasting every Dubosia along the trail until one with the nicotine taste was found and that one was gathered. Some old fellas reckon they can spot it by its aura - good for them! - probably the amount of insect damage is a clue too.

With the genocides came the loss of most of the original Australian and American Indigenous strains. They might be found again, but not without the thousands of years of selective breeding the ancestors put into development. Fortunately mapacho was kept going by the uncontacted Americans. Hundred year old specimens of pituri show 8% nicotine, not found in common modern populations...that is by most researchers...

Even tabacum if not properly bred can back breed to convertor stock, with little nicotine, but plenty of nornicotine. You can tell because the leaves cure red in colour.

Sozz I forgot to mention this point. Oh, and Africa has one very rare species of Nicotiana too.

OK and catch you all later. P's Dog.

Edited by Pat Uri
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Who is this mysterious Pat Uri and why are his posts so awesome???

Edited by katu
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No seriously, I laughed, I cried, for a moment I thought my head was actually going to explode...Beautiful, eloquent, pure fucking gold!!!

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12th of October - COLUMBUS DAY.

Today is the official birthday of tobacco, oh and that land mass where the "a merkins" (Americans) come from. You know that lot that speak and spell English funny, with Spanish as their national language.
Some celebrate it - others point out it began an invasion and genocide of many important indigenous cultures, hundreds, without trace.
It is an inconvenient truth to point out kumura sweet potato, native to south America, is found on Pacific islands all the way to New Zealand - which is a long way to float in salty water for a tuber. Scandinavians have found an old Viking horn stuffed with a tobacco variety. Chinese have an ancient variety of tobacco that their records say came from a foreign land well over the seas. Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine (and nicotine) when coca is only found in South America. Ancient Arabic texts describe the route to Americas and claim to have obtained treasures there.
History ("his""story") books insist European Columbus re"discovered" the Americas in 1492. Not the Egyptians , or the Vikings, or the Polynesians, or the Arabs (Christian God forbid!) - and certainly not the Chinese!
The Arawak Indians presented Columbus with the most precious gift they had the holy dried leaves of a particular odour they obviously prized - tobacco. He thought it rubbish, but noticed their gold ornaments...He wanted gold, not diplomacy. He kidnapped a few Indians and refused to release them until they told him the source of the gold. But soon the European Royal Families would learn how to turn the golden leaves into gold, lots and lots of it. Columbus spied and figured he could conquer the lot of them with "fifty steel clad and fire armed soldiers", seize their gold and put them into slavery. The fate of the American aboriginals was sealed and they were doomed, as were the lungs of the future.
So pretty all the accumulated wisdom of tobacco, and many other things, was lost to ignorance. Their cultures weren't recorded as contact was made by violent, murderous marauders, profit hungry gold fevered thieves, and Christian religious zealots - their activities would make ISIS look modest. They made better terrorists than anthropologists and even worse botanists. There was absolutely no interest in indigenous culture except to irradicate it. To study their records would be to research Judaism using Nazi literature, not credible. What few bias observations they made to give us clues about traditional tobacco use are completely confused by the fact natives chewed Nicotiana AND Erythroxylun, Acorus, Salvia, Lophophorus, etc. and snuffed Nicotiana AND Erythroxylun, Anadenanthera, Virola, etc. in all combinations.
The very word "tobacco" is wrong - that actually the name the Arawak gave to the tube they snuff cohoba with in their temples praying to the Taino cohoba spirit in a religion they supposedly didn't have - they were filthy bare arsed heathen savages - the Arawak prized peace as the greatest virtue. There were hundreds of names for different Nicotiana, preparations and uses that varied from tribe to tribe and they traded their ware far and wide. This and so many other ethnobotanicals we can only imagine now. So, so much wisdom.
So party on today America - for how far you have come, but spare a thought for how much you, and the rest of us, really lost forever. Try not to keep doing it.
Respect! Phaemon's Dog.
Edited by Pat Uri
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G'day

I found these two snippets in a book I have called "The Heirloom Tobacco Garden" by Timothy A James. I thought they might be relevant to the discussion.

"...., the Camayura natives in South America harvests tobacco leaves and hang them on cleft sticks to air dry in the shade. When semi dry, they cut the leaves into narrow strips and cure the tobacco in small baskets. (Wilbert 1987:106)"

"The Caraja Indians along the middle course of the Araguaia River in South America harvest their tobacco when the leaves start drooping. The leaves are hung up in the house to dry. When the leaves are 'half-dry' they are rubbed between the hands until they turn black and are then hung on a pole or a special sloping rack until almost dry. The tobacco cures in oblong baskets and then is twisted or braided into ropes for use."

Like the OP suggested I reckon fermenting and aging tobacco is fairly modern method developed for the western palate. Not sure the Native Americans stored great quantities of tobacco to age for years like modern practices.

Cheers
Twist

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depends on route of administration, usually cured by air or as mention in the rafter of houses. straight off the plant and into preparations for enema and tobacco pastes. or dried over a fire and ground into snuff. smoking preparations vary, mapacho would be rolled into logs and soaked in tobacco syrup and other ingredients until it goes deep black colour and has the right smell. if you want a good resource see this book:

http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300057904

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G'day

When semi dry, they cut the leaves into narrow strips and cure the tobacco in small baskets. (Wilbert 1987:106)"

"The Caraja Indians along the middle course of the Araguaia River in South America harvest their tobacco when the leaves start drooping.

Like the OP suggested I reckon fermenting and aging tobacco is fairly modern method developed for the western palate. Not sure the Native Americans stored great quantities of tobacco to age for years like modern practices.

Cheers

Twist

gidday Twist. P'sDog with a couple of points - leaf stripping is to remove the "stalk" which is the midrib - if the leaf moulds it will always start at the butt of the "stalk". This is why it is tied into hands with the butts facing out of the bales - to inspect for the first sign of "house burn" mould.

South American tobaccos N.tabacum var. brasiliensis and var. havanensis subspecies have the phenotype of an acute angle to the stem - as the leaf ripens it "droops" to more normal. All other subspecies have the leaf perpendicular to the stem and may "droop" about 10 degrees on ripening - but this is not to be used to "prove" ripening.

The Native American most certainly did store great quantities of tobacco to age to use as trade items for years. Observers of the Tionontati commented on how they built studier "houses" for their tobacco to live in than they did for themselves.

Traditionally tobacco was never used in the same year it was grown or even the next, very unlike the modern practise where they can't spray it with hormones, flue it, pulp it into RTS strips fast enough.

Cheers pal! P'sDog.

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Hey Pat Uri

Thanks for the info. I failed to consider that tobacco was also a type of currency and assumed that it was used immediately after curing. My ignorance and prejudice got in the way of seeing that perhaps we learnt a great deal from the natives about how to process tobacco.

I think flueing tobacco has some advantages in the curing process though. It locks in the sugars and and gives it a bright colour. Maybe commercial cigarette tobacco has a lot to be desired but I think quality cigars and pipe tobacco do at least try to maintain a genuine tobacco experience without pulping floor sweepings.

@hebrew

Thanks for the book suggestion. I found a second hand hard copy and ordered it.

Cheers

Twist

Edit: Spelling

Edited by TwistedTripper

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Today is the official birthday of tobacco, oh and that land mass where the "a merkins" (Americans) come from.

I'm gunna enjoy referring to 'em as merkins

Edited by BeerAlternative
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Hey Pat Uri

I think flueing tobacco has some advantages in the curing process though. It locks in the sugars and and gives it a bright colour. Maybe commercial cigarette tobacco has a lot to be desired but I think quality cigars and pipe tobacco do at least try to maintain a genuine tobacco experience without pulping floor sweepings.

...and cancer

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I'm gunna enjoy referring to 'em as merkins

Gidday there BeerAlternative! This term actually came to us from the great USA political Father himself (and his dynasty) - we had never used it before - when he declared to the world that "I am proud to be a merkin - and I know you are proud to be a merkin too". That is what he said, and seeing as his name was Bush - now it makes sense! - we respectfully have referred to them that way since, by his request and actions. When speaking to them, I have never been corrected, in fact, they are endeared by the use of the term verbally...Literally they must think it a spellcheck error.

In the grand tradition, Kim Il Sung followed by Kim Jong Il and George Bush followed by George Bush, the term "a merkin" has continued to cover up the activities of an open, "shaved off" C**NT - in the English. Sorry there readers - that is a "nasty word" for a "nasty thing" - I know I'm gonna get warned over this - but it is a proper English word (from the Celtic "cwynt" geographic moisture pocket in a valley between two small hills, specific landform in postglacial country noted by early hunters as a trap for game) and was even used by Shakespeare, several times - but never to describe USA involvement in world affaires, just the interference of an old bitch in letters to ruin other people's lives from a safe distance (Beaucrat, examining correspondence handwriting:-"Yes it is She,; from her C, U 'n' T,; from underneath which, She,; does forth her great P"...something like that). I really hate using that nasty word, off construction site, but such an ancient English word can not be lost from the vocabulary - for how else will our future generations describe the pre-Obama USA? Messer Bush? Camp X-ray? Abu Ghraib? "War-on-Drugs"? USA led GFC? etc. etc. etc.

Certainly not in terms that might get confused with historical King Knut - who thought his government's law would turn back the sea's tide or else arrest the ocean for treason...that is a different matter.

Sheet! better get back to tobacco before I get the CIA up me bum. Yeah Twist - sozz to take the piss out you - but flue cure and fire cure make tasty tobacco but are the conditions that make it carcinogenic. Tabacum itself doesn't have much carcinogen - its abundant pyridine, et.al. alkaloids and precursor react with nitrates and nitrites from partial protein degradation to the Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines when heated. These TSNs are guaranteed cancer - in fact you can do it as a cruel experiment. Tape flue cured or fire cured tobacco to my "Tony Abbott" the Rabbit ears and in three weeks you'll find squamous cell carcinoma on the skin/tobacco contact. ("Tony Abbott" my Liberal Rabbit is with "Bronwyn" my Guinea Pig one of our pets - they sleep together in the same hutch) Such rodents have fast metabolism so weeks are like months in the human in vivo study. I have never done this - Pat Uri in the 50s, 60s, 70s, did proving something was wrong with modern tobacco, even today Big Tobacco executives swear on the bible to the best of their knowledge flue cure and fire cure tobacco does not cause lung et.al. cancer...Pat Uri assures me that King Satan himself keeps them 12 special little thrones in Kingdom Hell awaiting for their souls to torture to Doomsday.

A merkins use flue cured in their cigarettes and fire cured in their "snuff" but their "snuff" is not to sniff, it is for oral use, hence confusion. Still LOADED with TSN a fact a merkins companies have ignored in spite of world condemnation.

Positive - a merkin FDA has JUST approved Swedish TSN-free snus for sale on their hallowed territories in USA. It took 5 years of intensive trials to find something wrong with carcinogen free Swedish snus, all the resources of American Tobacco to resist it, but finally it can no longer be stopped from USA availability. Enjoy and keep wisdom!

Funny that Respected Snoop Doggy Dog got to sell his 420 product first (First! suckers!) - Jah Bless him! Jah bless him again! And thrice blessed by Most High Jah be that Dog! - Praise Him! - before TSN reduced tobacco got available to USA. What enlightened times we live in- how far you have come America - shine on.

Traditionally cured tobacco is remarkably free of TSN - not magic, just no heat for haste makes waste and cancer. More soon, I promise.

Be healthy and happy to your last days beautiful readers, and may those last days be long time far away!

Regards - Phaemon's Dog.

Edited by Pat Uri
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Pat Uri has told me to keep up with you Psilo. That looks plenty sexy to me - not too red that indicates poisonous nor-nicotine. Keep it hangin' I'm sure a few cycles of Old Sydney Town dry/moist humidity will do it good. However growing so close to the coast and use of chlorinated tap water irrigating might have introduced enough chlorine to cause this - it won't hold fire and be good smoke, but who needs that? Will still make good and wholesome chew. Always OK for shisha.

Was that harvested pre-September? I know a good fella like yourself didn't grow that in Aus - image, it must have come foreign from one of your many brothers.

Keep hanging - but curious to know if it is sweet or burns on the lip? This will indicate how to strip and prepare for next curing to bring out the perfume - ie fermentation.

Brazen orange is good - in a bright leaf strain - cherry red very bad. Still plenty of time to sow the good seed.

Keep growing the good shit, and keep ahead. Most High multiply your blessings. Respect! Psilo!

P'sDog of Scabies/Clan Pat Uri.

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In the grand tradition, Kim Il Sung followed by Kim Jong Il and George Bush followed by George Bush, the term "a merkin" has continued to cover up the activities of an open, "shaved off" OBSCURED - in the English. Sorry there readers - that is a "nasty word" for a "nasty thing" - I know I'm gonna get warned over this - but it is a proper English word (from the Celtic "cwynt" geographic moisture pocket in a valley between two small hills, specific landform in postglacial country noted by early hunters as a trap for game) and was even used by Shakespeare, several times -

DonKey Wang here - Well that is the rudest thing I have ever seen written by that foulmouthed Dog! On behalf of the Clan I would like to apologise for this - he usually says "cuzz" - but we know what he means! A nasty word for a nasty thing indeed! Certainly if this Mr Shakespeare, who sounds no better, has to resort to using such vulgar language in his writings too he shows us all just how limited his use of the English vocabulary really is! Disgusting!

Yours most suitably offended - DonKey Wang.

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